I've NEVER replaced brakes on any motorcycle I've had in over 300k miles on just 4 bikes. I engine brake though. So what's that say. I actually had 5 bikes but one didn't last to long as you might remember.

 

It is always a good idea to use a $6,000 engine to save wear on $39 brake pads.

 

Yeah and you use those brakes so much that one time when you need them the most they may not be there. I guess I got to using the engine because of the mountains in California. There are roads there that if you use your brakes you'll heat them up to failure. You learn to use the engine.

 

Obviously, if you don't USE your brakes, you won't wear them down. However, I'm a victim of my training in the BRC, and use them. I am certainly conscious of not wanting to OVER- use my brakes though.

Is there something of value with "slow and easy" (I realize I'm not on a rice-rocket of course), overall, in riding?

-Soupy

 

Oh I never said I didn't downshift and use the engine

 

Does downshifting as an alternative for the brakes, put any unnecessary strain on parts of the engine or tranny?

-Soupy

 

If done correctly, any added wear would be VERY minimal. (Especially if you blip the throttle to match the engine speed to the tranny main shaft speed, or have a slipper clutch ) It is not like you're racing around at track speeds, so you should be fine.

I find that in normal traffic riding, I use minimal brakes, just enough to augment the engine braking, and adding that measure of control that Trondyne mentioned.

 

I downshift then front brake and if necessary use rear brake

 

Have never replaced rear brakes and 1 front

 

Downshifting uses the compression of the engine to slow the bike... I don't think it taxes the engine but may put some additional minor wear on the clutch..

It's a very effective way to supplement braking while adding an additional measure of control to the slow down process.. Downshifting and braking is IMO the correct way to slow down any manual shift vehicle as it ensures that the engine and gear speed are ready to take off again with maximum power at any time during the "braking" process... It also ensures no lock up of the rear wheel, which is like old school ABS..

Plus it makes or should make quite a cool sound as the revs pick up then drop down, cooler than the idle sound since when slowing IMO you should hear the bike slowing via the engine as well as those around you, keeping them aware of your presence...

 

I dont see how an engine jumping to 5k RPMS that is designed to redline at 10 hurts it when you engine brake. Id rather save my brakes for when I need them and let the engine do its thing in normal levels.

However I dont advocate shifting to first on the free way

 

I dont see how an engine jumping to 5k RPMS that is designed to redline at 10 hurts it when you engine brake......

I hear the advocacy for down-shifting in that statement, but I don't pretend to understand the "redlining" aspect. I'm not sure how to process that, since I don't understand the design intent part. I DO get the idea that you are saying that a rider should not attempt to drop more gears than the forward momentum will support.

In other words, I guess you are saying (concerning redlining) that if you are traveling (let's say) at fifty MPH and you pull your clutch in and drop it two gears (let's say)..........you MIGHT want to wait til your forward momentum is down to 30 before letting the clutch out, because you don't want to over-exert the engine by a sudden and excessive lowering of the RPM's. Is THAT (which is commonly known of course) what you are saying?

RonK: You said, "If you're going to continue on around a slow spot and need the lower gear, downshifting is not just slowing but preparing for the next phase ahead in your ride."

I agree with this........there is PLENTY of (or at least there is in MY method of doing this) downshifting as I prepare to negotiate a corner (let's say) in a right-hand or left hand turn situation, or just in a tight curve.

I guess I'm thinking of those times when coming to a Stop Sign or a Signal Light, and a "legal stop" is expected (whether you or I practice a "legal stop" by putting one foot down and completely stopping the bike's forward motion), I would down shift, but because of habit from training, I would use both brakes.

If nothing else, you'd better believe that I'm going to "cover" the brakes, given the unpredictability of traffic situations, and the percentage of accidents that tend to happen in intersections, more than any other road-riding scenario.

Is there another dynamic here, in this question and discussion, having to do with "chain drive" -vs- "belt drive" -vs- "shaft drive?" There are different response characteristics between each, but I wonder if any of the three mentioned, might be more or less affected by down-shifting, -vs- braking?

-Soupy

 

I'm thinking that downshifting to slow may even be better for the engine as it might help blow **** out of the engine (carbon) vs idle which may tend to deposit more ****... Engines like to move gasses...

 

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You all are talking like you're only going to stop. If you're going to continue on around a slow spot and need the lower gear, downshifting is not just slowing but preparing for the next phase ahead in your ride.

As Critter mentioned, more or less, why do you so want to prevent using (more like $70.) worth of brakes? It's easy to change them out and you can do a brake line flush at the same time. You do that, don't you?

Possibly one thing that gets worn the most on the downshifting is the rear tire wear. Hard downshifting wears just like hard acceleration does. Tires aren't nearly as cheap. I'd rather replace all my brakes than one extra tire.

--

 

For slowing down I think downshifting makes even more sense -- staying in the power band and keeping revs where they should be along with the rest of the reasons stated--I did say "to slow.." Makes even more sense going into a turn where removing and then adding power smoothly keeps the bike stable...

And I can't see how downshifting is going to use more or less rubber than (rear) braking as both do the exact same thing to the tire -- slow it down.... but the downshift won't lock it...

 

Engine braking won't damage your engine any more then running it will. Like Ron said, it may wear your tire a little faster, but realistically most riders won't notice any difference because there's too many other factors that cause wear too.

I use some engine braking at certain times, and a lot more wheel braking at most other times. The idea of using the engine to save on pad wear is just silly.

If you do your scheduled maintenance and routine checks like your owners' manual tells you to, you should be in no worry of applying the brakes to suddenly find out they are worn beyond use.

 

Engine braking won't damage your engine any more then running it will. Like Ron said, it may wear your tire a little faster, but realistically most riders won't notice any difference because there's too many other factors that cause wear too.

I use some engine braking at certain times, and a lot more wheel braking at most other times. The idea of using the engine to save on pad wear is just silly.

If you do your scheduled maintenance and routine checks like your owners' manual tells you to, you should be in no worry of applying the brakes to suddenly find out they are worn beyond use.

I seriously doubt anyone uses engine braking to save brake pads. That would certainly be silly, I have another word but silly will work. Saving brake pads just happens to be a side benefit of engine braking. You naturally still need to use your brakes just not nearly as much.

 

I think engine braking is probably the way to go, for the biggest part. Let the engine do the bulk of the work. But I definitely use both, and typically simultaneously.

At the very least, you want to apply enough brake to trip your brake lights, so that the cage behind you knows you're slowing down. I've been told a good strategy is to flash them several times, to better get their attention.

 

Good point about the lights... I agree it's not an either or thing but typically both brakes and downshifting, as in brake/downshift/release..where the brakes take up the slack if more braking is needed..

Typically in traffic I am using the brakes minimally along with downshifting.. For me downshifting goes a long way to slowing down the bike especially under normal traffic conditions..

 

Kaptain K said: "........The real trick for any rider, is to practice, and get used to knowing when to shift to maximize braking potential without overrevving the engine."

Getting used to YOUR particular bike, is an important factor, even if the principles apply to ALL bikes, that we have been talking about.

-Soupy

 

That's....exactly what I said....

 

I have to replace my rear brake pads before my front ones, even though I use the front brakes more during a stop. Practicing low speed maneuvers tends to do that. The single-pin design of the Sportster rear brake pads sucks by the way. It's hard to get the pads aligned correctly.

As long as you aren't over-stressing the drive train with sloppy downshifting, it won't hurt anything at all.

 

Dods: Did you ever do a detailed history of your riding life and experiences; career paths (presuming something to do with motorcycles).

Just wondering.....

-Soupy

 

I think I've written a lot on here.

 

Dods: absolutely you have. Just wondered if you had a place in here where you put it all in one bio. You obviously have a ton of commitment to the site, and a long history with bikes. Just was curious, is all.

-Soupy

 

I downshift when coming to stop not for the added brake power, but because it sounds cool.

 

That's the most important thing to do when riding. At least it seems to be from listening to the ones who ride around here.

 

Downshifting is of course as important as upshifting and must be done with even more care to match speed, gear and rpm's so as not to 'slide' the rear tire and lose control.

Even professionals on their racetracks have this problem and it easily causes wrecks. The "Slipper clutch" was developed exactly for this reason and has made it into a lot of streetbikes.

If you Soupy, for example, see a corner coming up and you are going 60 mph and downshift into first, maybe accidently, The rear tire will lock up, skidding and your engine rpm's will go from say 2,000 rpms to way over redline and that can easily RUIN your engine. Been there done that on track bikes and dirt bikes. This is why almost every motorcycle owners manual shows the proper speed to upshift through the gears and more importantly, the correct speed to downshift to the next lower gear.

I normally can ride a Long and curving mountain road, say 50 miles for example and never use my brakes. It is an acquired ability to pick the correct gear and speed and use compression braking to maintain the momentum. This scenario is what makes big engine bikes so much fun: pick a gear and let the torque do the rest, unlike shifting a million times and keeping the rpm's p on a crotch rocket

I often wonder about people following me and not seeing my brake lights come on all the time because I rarely use them unless coming to a complete stop.

Follow a good and experienced rider sometime in the mountains and prove me out: Their motion is fluid and oh so smooth, sort of like watching a pro golfer versus we mortals.

When I do need the brakes, I'm a front brake guy and just barely use it at all.

It is as mentioned, a lot easier to replace brake pads than an engine, clutch or gearbox.

Sam

 

If you Soupy, for example, see a corner coming up and you are going 60 mph and downshift into first, maybe accidently,

Sam

How do you accidentally shift into first from likely 4th or 5th gear (if you're cruising at 60)? :biggrin:

 

I use both the brakes and downshifting to stop my bike. I always have.



-Soupy

Didn't need to go any farther with this thread than your own first sentence ...

 

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What is being overlooked is that you can modulate your stopping power with your brakes much more than with your engine/downshift alone. Part of the advantage is also that you are able to use both brakes/wheels to control your movement rather than just your rear wheel.

That's why, given the choice, I will use both, but brakes for harder stops/slows. The downshifting is used more for milder changes in speed when simply modulating the throttle won't do. Since I usually anticipate my moves ahead of time, I can usually avoid rapid changes in speed. A lot of that comes from good reading of the road and traffic.

--

 

Mine don't...in emergency braking I use everything

 

Me either dods