I'm a newb with a basic question that I'm sure has been addressed before, but I cannot find a definitive answer or even a consensus... You're riding along at 50 mph on a main artery in town. There's a red light up ahead for which you must begin stopping. What do you do... with the brakes, clutch, shifter, et al? (Thanks for replying!)
keith0718
If I have plenty of room I'll ease off throttle, clutch in, downshift, blip throttle, clutch out, repeat. Down at 25mph or so, clutch in, brakes. Nice'n'easy. Also a newb.
Learned to drive in a standard well over 50 years ago and have driven just about everything that moves. Whether bike or semi, I use both brake and down-shifting.
I use engine braking in addition to the front and rear brakes. I downshift, let out the clutch, and use the engine's resistance to slow the bike down, as well as both brakes. I almost never rely on the brakes by themselves (see next paragraph for urgent braking techniques). I also install a brake modulator on every bike I own: flashes once per second, for five seconds, then on steady, until I release the brake. It's much easier than trying to flash the brakes manually, which can jerk the bike by grabbing/releasing the brakes.
In an urgent stop, where I don't have time to slow down with the engine, I pull the clutch, and ride the brakes hard, downshifting as the bike slows -- I try to keep it in proper gear for the speed, as I'm slowing down, only shifting into 1st gear at the end, when the bike is at 10 MPH, or slower.
Try to always maintain the proper gear for your speed! If you have it in too high of a gear, the engine could stall, and die; if the bike is in too low of a gear for the speed traveled, the rear tire could slide out dumping you, and the bike.
Also, always lead with the rear brake, applying it first, about 1/2-second before applying the front brake. This will prevent the nose from diving, stabilizing the bike's suspension, making stops easier, faster, and with better control. Practice in a parking lot, at low speeds, initially, to gain an understanding of how it works. It can be done at any speed, even in emergent braking situations -- this is where leading with the rear brake is even more critical to keep the bike's suspension stabilized. Cheers!
In an urgent stop, where I don't have time to slow down with the engine, I pull the clutch, and ride the brakes hard, downshifting as the bike slows -- I try to keep it in proper gear for the speed, as I'm slowing down, only shifting into 1st gear at the end, when the bike is at 10 MPH, or slower.
Try to always maintain the proper gear for your speed! If you have it in too high of a gear, the engine could stall, and die; if the bike is in too low of a gear for the speed traveled, the rear tire could slide out dumping you, and the bike.
Also, always lead with the rear brake, applying it first, about 1/2-second before applying the front brake. This will prevent the nose from diving, stabilizing the bike's suspension, making stops easier, faster, and with better control. Practice in a parking lot, at low speeds, initially, to gain an understanding of how it works. It can be done at any speed, even in emergent braking situations -- this is where leading with the rear brake is even more critical to keep the bike's suspension stabilized. Cheers!
I start with the brakes, clutch, down shift, let clutch out slowly, to wined engine down, clutch, downshift, and repeat
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A lot of what riders have stated above can be confusing. Sure, once you know what you're doing and have practiced, then left hand clutch, right hand brake and throttle, left foot shift, and right foot brake is doable.
I always suggest that newer riders concentrate first on stopping by using the two brakes and at the same time throttle off and clutch in. Don't fret if you aren't sure if you have more pressure on the front or rear brake. No one really knows unless one end locks up. Don't worry about shifting until you are near stopped (like the last 10' or so), then go down to the gear you want to be in. You will have to count down to know that.
If you try to do the gear down-shifting during these learning stops, it makes it harder to learn how much to brake and how much effect just the brakes have.
Try to master the gears on turns and slowdowns where you won't need to stop. This gets you used to the clutch feel, throttle modulation, and how to correct when you miss a shift. If you are harsh on clutch release, your rear tire will skid or you may not be clutching at the right time. Done properly and smoothly will reinforce what gear you will need at a given speed. Your goal is to be smooth.
What many riders do is try to impress others by clutching, shifting, and braking. In fact, many of their moves are poorly done but covered up by revving the engine with the clutch in--which does nothing at all but make noise.
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A lot of what riders have stated above can be confusing. Sure, once you know what you're doing and have practiced, then left hand clutch, right hand brake and throttle, left foot shift, and right foot brake is doable.
I always suggest that newer riders concentrate first on stopping by using the two brakes and at the same time throttle off and clutch in. Don't fret if you aren't sure if you have more pressure on the front or rear brake. No one really knows unless one end locks up. Don't worry about shifting until you are near stopped (like the last 10' or so), then go down to the gear you want to be in. You will have to count down to know that.
If you try to do the gear down-shifting during these learning stops, it makes it harder to learn how much to brake and how much effect just the brakes have.
Try to master the gears on turns and slowdowns where you won't need to stop. This gets you used to the clutch feel, throttle modulation, and how to correct when you miss a shift. If you are harsh on clutch release, your rear tire will skid or you may not be clutching at the right time. Done properly and smoothly will reinforce what gear you will need at a given speed. Your goal is to be smooth.
What many riders do is try to impress others by clutching, shifting, and braking. In fact, many of their moves are poorly done but covered up by revving the engine with the clutch in--which does nothing at all but make noise.
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I am sorry but I have to disagree.
Revving the engine during downshift is very good for the clutch, engine, transmission and it feels more continuous. It's very hard to do it properly, but if you can, it's really nice.
All automatic gearboxes do the same on cars. Downshift sequence looks like this: clutch in, get the engine rpm to the point where it would be with released clutch in the lower gear, in the same time, select the lower gear, then release the clutch quickly.
If you don't raise the rpm during downshift, you have to release the clutch slowly, because the engine will run at idle and the driving wheel is going to raise the engines rpm through the clutch.
I admit that it's hard to do it on a bike, especially when you use the front brake with the same hand you are trying to twist the accelerator with, but it's nice, saves some clutch and sounds great.
I guess it makes sense.
I always downshift while braking. It just makes it simpler. I think you need to learn braking using front, rear and engine brake, all at the same time.
From the maintenance point of view it's much better to use engine brake and a little rear brake rather than using just the rear brake with the clutch pulled in. Also it feels wrong to me when someone is searching for neutral at the red light.
What you really want to do (if you noticed the red light in time) is downshift until second gear, use both brakes, then select neutral and stop. If you need to brake as hard as possible, shift down to first gear and use the front brake much more than the rear, because weight goes to front when braking.
Once I read a book about riding safe. I learnt a lot, but what I always do different since than is that I use the front brake with 2 fingers. The book said never take off all your fingers from the handlebar. If you apply the front brake with 4 fingers hard enough, you will end up rotating the handlebar to the right. Never "pull" the brake handle, "clench" it (I'm not sure if this is the right word, hope you will understand).
These kinds of stuff are not taught during the course you need to take to get a license in most of the countries (not in USA, definitely not in my country), however this is BASIC. I mean how the heck can you give a license to someone who doesn't feel safe to ride the first bike home after purchase?! Maybe not during rush hour in the most crowded zone but somehow. Why do you need a license to ride if they will not teach you how to?
I guess I went a bit off topic. No offence to riders, I am happy to help everyone, my problem is with the system.
From the maintenance point of view it's much better to use engine brake and a little rear brake rather than using just the rear brake with the clutch pulled in. Also it feels wrong to me when someone is searching for neutral at the red light.
What you really want to do (if you noticed the red light in time) is downshift until second gear, use both brakes, then select neutral and stop. If you need to brake as hard as possible, shift down to first gear and use the front brake much more than the rear, because weight goes to front when braking.
Once I read a book about riding safe. I learnt a lot, but what I always do different since than is that I use the front brake with 2 fingers. The book said never take off all your fingers from the handlebar. If you apply the front brake with 4 fingers hard enough, you will end up rotating the handlebar to the right. Never "pull" the brake handle, "clench" it (I'm not sure if this is the right word, hope you will understand).
These kinds of stuff are not taught during the course you need to take to get a license in most of the countries (not in USA, definitely not in my country), however this is BASIC. I mean how the heck can you give a license to someone who doesn't feel safe to ride the first bike home after purchase?! Maybe not during rush hour in the most crowded zone but somehow. Why do you need a license to ride if they will not teach you how to?
I guess I went a bit off topic. No offence to riders, I am happy to help everyone, my problem is with the system.
I agree it's doesn't make a big difference. On the second thought it also doesn't make any good to the engine, or the transmission, however the downshift feels more natural this way(at least for me).
You save a little clutch doing this because the friction is minimized. The clutch plates are rotating with the same speed as the steel plates, so when you release the clutch, they will just keep rotating at the same speed.
(I will assume now clutch plates rotate together with the engine and steel plates with the rear wheel through the transmission. It might be other way around, but it doesn't make any difference for now)
In the "normal" case when you ease off the throttle and pull the clutch, the engine will return to idle revs, meaning that clutch plates slowed down. In the same time the bike speed remains more or less the same, meaning that the steel plates keep rotating at the same speed. If you shift down, and release the clutch(slowly) the steel plates will spin up the clutch plates at a much higher rpm than they were before, and of course this is done by causing friction.
More friction = more wear = more money to spend on clutch plates.
I was told, sometimes I am overthinking stuff. Sorry, but that's me.
You save a little clutch doing this because the friction is minimized. The clutch plates are rotating with the same speed as the steel plates, so when you release the clutch, they will just keep rotating at the same speed.
(I will assume now clutch plates rotate together with the engine and steel plates with the rear wheel through the transmission. It might be other way around, but it doesn't make any difference for now)
In the "normal" case when you ease off the throttle and pull the clutch, the engine will return to idle revs, meaning that clutch plates slowed down. In the same time the bike speed remains more or less the same, meaning that the steel plates keep rotating at the same speed. If you shift down, and release the clutch(slowly) the steel plates will spin up the clutch plates at a much higher rpm than they were before, and of course this is done by causing friction.
More friction = more wear = more money to spend on clutch plates.
I was told, sometimes I am overthinking stuff. Sorry, but that's me.
I would offer one more thought: don't make this about "right" and "wrong". This is a "what works for you" process. Does rev matching help? Yeah, especially when you're spanking it down gears and don't want to lock up the rear--bang it down a gear or two and dump the clutch and you can lock up the back, it makes for amazing rear-end chatter. Likewise you can let the clutch out slow and let the clutch drag and engine brake. You can coast to a stop, clutch in, from 5th gear and then smack it down as you wait for the light to change.
My Pop always told me: "You can't argue with success".
If you're worried about engine or clutch wear I'd suggest being more freaked out about keeping your oil changed and clean than rev matching. Also, think of the processing power you're wasting thinking about clutching and braking and shifting and warped plates and bent dogs and straight cut gears...instead of successfully not stopping in that pool of anti-freeze that minivan just puked out.
My Pop always told me: "You can't argue with success".
If you're worried about engine or clutch wear I'd suggest being more freaked out about keeping your oil changed and clean than rev matching. Also, think of the processing power you're wasting thinking about clutching and braking and shifting and warped plates and bent dogs and straight cut gears...instead of successfully not stopping in that pool of anti-freeze that minivan just puked out.
Whether you downshift using the engine to slow you (if you have time and flash your brakes so the guy behind you knows you are slowing), and/or use both brakes (always both brakes gives you good habits when needed), is up to you. Whatever you chose to do, make sure you are in first gear before you put your foot down. Why? So that if the guy behind you loses his brakes, is not paying attention, etc., you can just MOVE without having to pull in your clutch, shift to first gear, and then go. :icon_cool:
from my statement earlier, I do this most of the time, with the trailer behind me. almost the same way a trucker, would jack brake is Rig. when you have a trailer on, just hitting your brakes, alone will not stop you. Jake Braking ( clutching down through the gears ) combining all the stopping powers, ( More so in weather ) or emergency braking, when a light goes red. But they there again. there are lights I will have to run. ( one if no one is at the intersections & two and most people will agree, there comes at point where there is a Go NO Go point before the light ). If a light is green, for a long period of time, I slow down, are chances, its going to change as you approach.
I ride my bike, ( in the mind set of driving a tracker trailer ) when I have the trailer back there.
I ride my bike, ( in the mind set of driving a tracker trailer ) when I have the trailer back there.
I rarely use engine braking but will start to slow before I pull the clutch or apply the brakes. As I brake I try to stay in a gear that would work if I was able to just go again. Quite often I am still slowing when the light changes to green so it is handy to be in the right gear to just let out the clutch and give it a bit of throttle.
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