.... I don't plan to take either of them off-road......

Your money, your choice, but that seems like an odd pair to choose from with so many pure street bikes to choose from.

 

Looking for upright riding position, good power/handling, some wind protection. I've heard multiple people say "if you can only have one bike, the GS 1250 is the one to have". Reviews of the bike for road-use only seem convincing. Then I learn Africa Twin is comparable.

 

I've heard multiple people say "if you can only have one bike, the GS 1250 is the one to have".

I'm pretty sure the idea is to have a bike that can go anywhere, including off-road. I ride a BMW RT and sometimes (not often) find myself wishing it were a GS. But only when the road turns to dirt/gravel; NEVER when I'm riding on pavement.

FWIW, when the road does turn to dirt/gravel I've managed to keep up with the other riders on their GSs, but it looks to me like they're having a little bit more fun.

 

I don't plan to take either of them off-road.

I'm just curious why you're looking at adventure bikes. Either of those will cost more than a roadster.

There are lots more Honda dealers than BMW dealers (for in case you need warranty service).

 

Fair enough. I currently have a Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Classic LT (with bags). I'd like something with more power, better handling, upright riding position with knees not harshly bent, and wind protection. I'm 6'1" with 34" inseam. Most of my riding is single; only occasionally will I ride 2-up.

If not GS or AT, what should I look at?

Another thing...it annoys me the Japanese dealers won't allow test rides. If I'm going to spend $20k on something, I'd like to try it before riding it.

 

Fair enough. I currently have a Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Classic LT (with bags). I'd like something with more power, better handling, upright riding position with knees not harshly bent, and wind protection. I'm 6'1" with 34" inseam. Most of my riding is single; only occasionally will I ride 2-up.

If not GS or AT, what should I look at?

If you like the BMW boxers (like the R1250GS), try the R1250RS instead. A common modification to these is adding handlebar risers/setbacks, to give an even more upright and relaxed riding posture.

For even better wind protection look at the R1250RT. The disadvantage is additional weight and all those plastic body panels that need to be removed for servicing the bike. (The extra weight is noticeable during parking lot maneuvers, but simply vanishes once you get moving.)

 

If you're considering the Africa Twin, how about the Honda NT 1100 instead.... a street version of the Africa Twin. Other similar considerations would be the Kawasaki Versys 1000 SE LT+, the Yamaha Tracer 9 GT, or the Suzuki V-Strom 1050. Have you considered any of these? All of them are "adv styled" street bikes.

Unless it's the only one in stock, I've always had the opportunity to take at least a short test ride on a Japanese bike. Big dealers almost always have a "demo" unit on hand.

 

Thanks! I didn't know the NT1100 was on sale in the USA. I have considered Versys 1000 and Tracer 9 GT, will take a look at Suzuki V-Strom, but again, I'm not interested in buying something I can't take a test ride on first. I've asked multiple dealers and they all say "Our insurance won't allow it."

 

Kawasaki is currently running their Demo Good Times Roll at various dealers throughout the country. Amonsgt the bikes they demo is the Versys 1000 and Ninja 1000SX. I think they publish a list of stops on their US website.

 

If you can't get a ride (maybe on a last-year's used model if in stock) then here's an apples-to-apples comparison of the BMW, the Yamaha, the Kawasaki, and the Suzuki. Zack Courts is probably the best reviewer around. Each of these is a 30 minute (or so) ride over the same route... street, freeway, mild twisties, and dirt.

BMW

Yamaha

Kawasaki

Suzuki

 

Thank you. I've seen many of Zack's excellent videos, including those for the GS 1250 and Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES.

So everyone who buys a Japanese bike buys them without a test ride? Every local dealer I've called prohibits test rides, except Harley, Indian, BMW, and Triumph dealers.

 

A lot of dealers depend on the manufacture demo tours to provide the demo rides at the beginning of the season. I'm not arguing with you or necessarily disagreeing with you. There are bikes I will not buy because I cannot get a ride on them. Then there are bikes I have bought without a demo ride and liked them all.

 

Something in a similar vein might be the Harley Pan America. It's gotten some very positive reviews.

 

When you ride, ride the best you can afford and makes you SMILE. Resale value is important and Japanese bikes devalue quickly.

I had a new Africa Twin Adventure Sports a year ago, the Manual version: Very nice bike!

I have had 2 Suzuki V-Strom's, the 1000 and the 650: Great bikes, with the 650 being the best.

I had a R1100GS, in 2000 and in retrospect, it was better in my extremely humble opinion than any of the aforementioned.

I've had a total of 5 BMW's in the past and loved owning them but as was mentioned, Jap dealers are everywhere but Beemer dealer's are scant.

The 1250GS is amazing and I'm sure it will make you happy!

Sam

 

Back in 2018 I purchased a 2017 BMW R1200GS. This one is factory lowered.
No matter what bike I demo I am glad to have my GS.
Yes required maintenance is expensive unless you do it yourself.
Dealer availability is limited.
I just installed new tires that allow me to go off road if needed.
I think it is worth it.

 

I'm considering the BMW R 1250 GS and Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES (no DCT). Both bikes offer many of the same features, but the BMW ($23k) looks to be roughly $5k more expensive than Honda ($18k). I don't plan to take either of them off-road. For financial help, there is Fitmymoney made a great guide. This is my plan B if I still want to buy one of them.

It looks like the extra $$$ for BMW gets you more power, a heated seat, shaft drive, and longer warranty.

Is that right? Am I missing something else? Can anyone share experience on whether the $5k is "worth it" to you?

Choosing between the BMW R 1250 GS and the Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES is definitely an exciting decision. Both bikes have their own strengths and unique features, and it ultimately depends on your personal preferences and priorities.
The BMW R 1250 GS does come at a higher price point, but it also offers some additional features that you mentioned, such as more power, a heated seat, shaft drive, and a longer warranty. These features can add to the overall comfort, convenience, and performance of the bike, especially if you plan to do a lot of long-distance touring or riding in varying weather conditions.
However, it's important to assess whether these added features are worth the extra $5k to you personally. Consider your riding style, intended use of the bike, and your budget constraints. If you prioritize the specific features offered by the BMW and feel they will greatly enhance your riding experience, then it might be worth the additional investment for you.
On the other hand, the Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES offers a solid package with a slightly lower price point. It still provides excellent performance, reliability, and adventure capabilities, making it a popular choice among riders.
To make the best decision, I recommend test riding both bikes if possible and considering factors such as comfort, handling, and overall fit for your riding needs. Additionally, you can reach out to fellow riders who have experience with either bike to get their insights and perspectives on whether the extra $5k is justified for the BMW.
Ultimately, choosing the right motorcycle is a personal decision based on your individual preferences and budget. So, take your time, do thorough research, and make a decision that aligns with your riding aspirations and financial considerations. Happy riding!

 

I have had both Bikes: A 2000 R1100GS and a 201??? African Twin Adventure Sport.

The R-GS series bikes have a Driveshaft (Sent right from Heaven) and maintenance is super easy because the Cylinders are right out in the open. Separate Engine, Gearbox and Clutch and Final Drive oil allows no cross contamination. The Beemer is a CLASS ACT, if that means anything to you. The thing that bothers me is a lack of Dealers as compared to Honda Dealers that are on every street corner.

The Africa Twin Adventure Sport was another great bike of the '90' I have owned so far but it sat so high that I got really tired of the Karate kick necessary to mount the beast and fearing that dismounting was gonna break my ankle or twist it to death! ANYTHING that must be done to the engine requires hours of 'Tupperware' removal; Air filter, and plugs-Battery--- FUGEDABOUDET.

Cross Country, high speed Iron Butt type riding I would choose the Beemer.

Around town, to impress the Gentile Cafe set, I'm sure the flashy and pretty colors of the African Twin will draw attention.

Riding down Jeep roads and single tracks, which I did all over the western United States, I'd choose------neither of them as they are both heavy PIGS and hard to pick up, especially alone. That alone can strand and KILL you!

Sam

 

I'm considering the BMW R 1250 GS and Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES... I don't plan to take either of them off-road.

Looking for upright riding position, good power/handling, some wind protection.

It sounds like you are looking at the wrong type of bikes if you don't plan to ever go offroad. Have you considered touring or sport touring bikes? How much power do you want? How well do you want it to be able to handle? What have you ridden before and how do you want your next bike to compare to that performance wise? What features are essential? Shaft Drive? Cruise Control? Heated seats? A warranty?

Goldwings are pretty quick and handle well to some people, some people think ZX14Rs are too slow and handle poorly, so without a relative metric it is hard to give a good recommendation.

 

I wish @wanaride would come back and let us know what he ended up getting!

 

This happens so often on many forums. I belong to a guitar forum and the same thing happens all the time.

We should have a disclaimer that says we only provide help if we get a reply on their decision.

 

The BMW R 1250 GS indeed offers more power with its larger engine. If you value a higher level of performance and acceleration, the BMW may be more appealing. Additionally, for those interested in exploring innovative financial opportunities, you can learn how to turn Bitcoin into USD

 

Man the BMW bikes as a DIY cheapskate always sketch me out. I know people who own BMW bikes say they are reliable, but every time I hear what they actually call "reliable" I think: you spend several grand a year at a BMW dealer while under warranty, that is NOT what I consider reliable....

My 2014 Valkyrie 3rd gear just bit it at 43k, to be fair it has been sketchy since I got it at 36k, so I assume the PO did something terrible to it. HEAVILY considering non "cruiser" bikes now and I am looking at the FJR1300/Africa Twin/BMW 1200/1250 GS/GSA. Spec wise the 12000/1250 GS/GSA looks fantastic, but frick that BMW logo worries me. I am 43 so my personal bias is the Japanese are better at just about everything when it comes to cost to performance, but logically I know that bias is based on how they peaked early on in my adulthood and other companies/countries have certainly done a lot of catching up since then.

Hard choices for me, although I am sure others who buy all new vehicles and live under warranty barely understand my dilemma.

 

BMW = Bring More Wallet

 

BMW= Beautiful Motorcycle Women.

 

Ask Google what the expected mileage is on a model or models your are thinking about. That will give you an idea of how reliable they are.

Also, look at the for sale ads for those models and see how high the mileage is. That is also a good barometer on how long those models will last.

 

I have no doubt a lot of European bikes can last a very long time these days when serviced as they should be, but the question is how is the DIY serviceability? This might just be my outdated perception, but I feel that a lot of European manufacturers, especially higher end ones, design things for performance first with almost no consideration for servicing or repair, then that has to just be worked out later. Whereas I feel most Japanese companies have a more balanced performance to maintenance outlook through the design process. Plus when you start getting into higher end bikes, especially European ones it seems, the answer to "how do you fix this problem" is just "take it to the dealership and hand them a stack of cash", whereas a similar problem on other bike brands will have detailed steps and processes from the hundreds of people who have resolved the issue on their own bikes.

From what I have seen and read it seems like having any of the big name Japanese bikes when not under a warranty is usually just fine, but it seems like even huge proponents of things like BMW and Ducati mostly shy away from the idea of owning one of these bikes that is no longer covered.

Take your 25+ year old bike for example: there is literally Goldwings of every generation on the road today, you can find detailed solutions to any problem you might have with any one of them online, posts of parts cross compatibility and adaptation for things that are no longer easy to get, if you wanted to I have no doubt you could keep your quarter century old bike running well for several more decades. Compare that to companies like BMW and Ducati, sure there are a handful of antique collector bikes that might be ridden very occasionally for a special event, but how many say... 12-25 year old BMWs or Ducatis on the road that are ridden daily or at least weekly? My guess is not many compared to the number of Japanese bikes of the same age range. Again though, this may very well be my own bias and inaccurate perception.

 

Yup what Joel said. I still have my VFR since new in '86. Just ticked over 100k-miles and keeps on going. Gets flogged on track ~20 day/yr with no complaints. Done all maintenance myself. Only major issues has been corroding wiring connectors due to Honda using cheap bare-brass terminals that corrode over time. I replaced them with tin-coated ones over the years.

I had both of these bikes at same time while back. Well, had BMW 1st and got sick of it being in shop all the time. So picked up an Africa Twin for comparison. After a year, got rid of BMW, too much work and cost-of-ownership /year too much.

Electronics is where Japanese bikes really shine with exceptional reliability. On BMW, I had to replace cam/crank sensors, sidestand switch, right & left controls. Even the water pump leaked! If you've ever tried to replace these items on BMW, you'll know what kind of brain-surgeon you need to be just to get job done! On Honda, you can replace these items while sitting on side of road in middle of night if you needed to. Not that they ever fail.

 

I know something about BMW motorcycles, but almost nothing about the other European brands. There are still plenty of 15-20 year old BMWs on the road. The oilheads (1994 - 2004 boxer twins) have a large following (almost rabid in Europe, but strong as well in the U.S.). Most BMWs pre-2012 or so are easy to service, and most parts are readily available new from dealers or used from recyclers (Beemer Boneyard and others). Expert advice is deep and readily available from BMW-specific forums (BMW MOA forum, BMWSportTouring, and others). On these older motorcycles the common failures are well-known and easy to address pro-actively, as I have done on my 2003 R1150RT. I would not hesitate to hop on today and ride it from Ohio to California and back.

Maybe @DannoXYZ had one of the bad BMWs, or maybe I ended up with one of the gems. I dunno.

 

I am sure that Joel and Danno are right because I bought a used Goldwing this year and there is no way I could be wrong.