Why do I keep going down?
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Put putting in a parking lot even with the rear brake, if the turn is too sharp and the brakes are rapidly locked, it can still throw the bike beyond recovery. Straighten the front wheel and use either front or rear (or both) and the chances are you will not go down. Most, especially newer riders that haven't as yet acquired smooth front brake skills at slow speeds, should rely on the rear brake during parking lots, or on slippery surfaces like grass, etc. Even some experienced riders like to use the rear brake more at slow speeds. Keep working on it, keep learning, riding like a pro is in your future.
You can do it my dood. Practice makes perfect, and were all rooting for you.
I used to dump every time I turned around as a kid. Sand in corners and the like. You should not be using one brake or the other rather rear on slightly before front and no leaning. Bike lean or front wheel cocked one way is a dump waiting to happen at low speed. If you can't learn to modulate braking force to the speed and conditions you never will stop going down. Assume that all lesser swept areas like parking lots are sand covered.
I never dumped once in the last 20 years I rode.
I never dumped once in the last 20 years I rode.
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Knowing how to use the brakes, gears and ride well is part of the equation, learning to predict, prepare and avoid drivers who may kill you is another. Experience is a great teacher. I watch guys fly by me and thread the needle between cars all the time. I've paid those dues. Situational awareness and experience (preparing for the worst and avoiding high risk situations) is the way to go. Those who speed around blind turns are gamblers. Ride like your life depends on it.
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229 Posts
All the motorcycle mags have preached using the front brake as it provides anywhere from 60-90% of the bikes stopping power. I think many of us have that ingrained into our brains. While this may be true when stopping from a higher rate of speed, slow speed stopping is another matter. Also, with linked and ABS braking, on some bikes, using the hand brake or foot brake accomplishes the same thing. It applies the brakes in the proper ratio.
As critter says, don't come to a stop with the handlebars turned unless you're ready for some excitement.
As critter says, don't come to a stop with the handlebars turned unless you're ready for some excitement.
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I only used front brakes, even on gravel, except for emergency braking. But that's 40 years of experience or in other words, mistakes. 6 months experience is just getting started. In addition to experience, properly functioning brakes are a must. With experience comes not over reacting when you feel that front tire slip which is where most get into trouble. In other words they panic. I'm not sure there is a way to teach this except by failures and then the rare success. But straightening the bike up is key. Dirt bike riders probably have one big step forward in the use of that front brake in relation to the rear. But I won't even bet on that but think it would be true.
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69 Posts
That might be the best advice in this discussion. Reminds me of a friend who is paralyzed on his left side from dumping his Harley. He's all right now.
'But straightening the bike up is key.'
YES. I would rather lose a slight amount of braking distance straightening up than brake in a lean. Why you build in added distance. You will be a dead duck in rain not doing it. I consciously straighten up before any braking action I ever do in rain.
You get away with leaning a bike because you add tire friction with weight multiplied by speed and inertia but when you brake you cut that back hugely and then you fall into the turned wheel. it's a matter of grasping the physics there.
When you get good at balance you can even run up to a stop sign and balance well enough to completely stop and balance for a second to then barely release clutch and gas up lightly to re-achieve decaying balance and never touch a foot to the ground at all. I can balance as long as two seconds doing it with no thought of it at all. Do NOT do it at a motorcycle license test though as many police do not consider a balance stop as a full stop even if the bike wheels have stopped rolling, a complete stop is one with at least one foot on the ground legally. BTDT and failed the test over it because I drove with no license for several years and was good at it. When the policemen told me I was surprised as I could have easily done the foot down thing if I knew it was wanted, of course the driver training book did not say one word about it. So I had to test again after waiting 30 days and passed that one perfectly.
If one previously drove a bicycle it comes much easier. The left/right/left/right due to pedaling is a slight both way out of balance condition one learns to work under pretty quick.
Something else many do not know but food to chew on. When say you are creeping bike just before taking off and you have to turn it say left what do you do? You turn the handlebar slightly left of course. However, once you are at high enough speed to be balanced then something weird happens but most don't see it. To get the bike to begin to fall to the same left you have to push the handlebar a slight imperceptible amount to the RIGHT first, it is what decays your balance to fall to the left to begin to run on the side of the tire to then go to the left. So, to go left you slightly go right first then left if needed to turn tighter. The opposite move throws you off balance to then fall to the side you want to ride to cut that one way. If you had paint on the tires you would even see that slight move to the opposite side before you then swing to the side you want, all bikes do it but the opposite move is very hard to see. That's if you keep your body dead straight with the bike, if you lean body to the turn side then that opposite move is not needed as your body weight does the same thing.
YES. I would rather lose a slight amount of braking distance straightening up than brake in a lean. Why you build in added distance. You will be a dead duck in rain not doing it. I consciously straighten up before any braking action I ever do in rain.
You get away with leaning a bike because you add tire friction with weight multiplied by speed and inertia but when you brake you cut that back hugely and then you fall into the turned wheel. it's a matter of grasping the physics there.
When you get good at balance you can even run up to a stop sign and balance well enough to completely stop and balance for a second to then barely release clutch and gas up lightly to re-achieve decaying balance and never touch a foot to the ground at all. I can balance as long as two seconds doing it with no thought of it at all. Do NOT do it at a motorcycle license test though as many police do not consider a balance stop as a full stop even if the bike wheels have stopped rolling, a complete stop is one with at least one foot on the ground legally. BTDT and failed the test over it because I drove with no license for several years and was good at it. When the policemen told me I was surprised as I could have easily done the foot down thing if I knew it was wanted, of course the driver training book did not say one word about it. So I had to test again after waiting 30 days and passed that one perfectly.
If one previously drove a bicycle it comes much easier. The left/right/left/right due to pedaling is a slight both way out of balance condition one learns to work under pretty quick.
Something else many do not know but food to chew on. When say you are creeping bike just before taking off and you have to turn it say left what do you do? You turn the handlebar slightly left of course. However, once you are at high enough speed to be balanced then something weird happens but most don't see it. To get the bike to begin to fall to the same left you have to push the handlebar a slight imperceptible amount to the RIGHT first, it is what decays your balance to fall to the left to begin to run on the side of the tire to then go to the left. So, to go left you slightly go right first then left if needed to turn tighter. The opposite move throws you off balance to then fall to the side you want to ride to cut that one way. If you had paint on the tires you would even see that slight move to the opposite side before you then swing to the side you want, all bikes do it but the opposite move is very hard to see. That's if you keep your body dead straight with the bike, if you lean body to the turn side then that opposite move is not needed as your body weight does the same thing.
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That's pure fact. I actually got a ticket for that once in California. My argument that the wheels were not moving didn't make a difference. He got mad when I asked him if he opens the door to put his foot down from his car. I might have said it rather sarcastic tone too. I used to be able to hold my Electra Glide up for quite awhile or at least I thought it was. Probably just 5 seconds though. 😓
Yes, amazing how long you can do it once you are used to your machine. But the cops take a dim view of it. I had batches of tickets before I ever got the license and every cop said the wheels have to stop to be considered a complete stop and then I take the test and the rules changed. After that any time around police I did both. The policeman that failed me told me the foot down thing was in the driver handbook but I went through every page and again, not a word about it.
Cops...........Phssst!
Love 'em, but sometimes? I've been lied to enough......yet I have used them to my benefit much.
Cops...........Phssst!
Love 'em, but sometimes? I've been lied to enough......yet I have used them to my benefit much.
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26,768 Posts
I do believe they have corrected that omission now. Or at least they have in Texas as I think I remember seeing it when I moved back from California and went to get my Texas license. They seemed shocked that I rode from Cali back to Texas in December but had my bike right out front for them to look at. And that's all they did. Just the written test and I did get one wrong but challenged them and they accepted it. I don't remember what it was but it was a safety thing and my way was for sure safer than what they wanted to see. Wish I could remember what it was though.
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An oldy bit a goody. Well done Sir.
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Most don’t have the time it takes to go to court and contest the ticket. They know it so they just like to harass the motorcyclist. I know I didn’t and for $35 it just wasn’t worth the hassle. Time off work, parking charges and fuel was far more. Plus the chance of getting in some stupid fender bender, they put courts in the worst places, just wasn’t worth it. I do wish the AMA would go after them though because they do it all the time.
My lawyer brother taught me how to avoid hassles on such minor, maybe-not-even-a-violation charges, especially if it's within a small jurisdiction: notify the magistrate that you will demand a jury trial. 99 times out of 100, they will not even be tempted to get near to that can of worms and the charges will be dropped.
When I moved to Cali in 1986 they made me take MC written test when I was applying for a Class 1 license. I flunked it big time. There was so much that I disagreed with. At that point I had been riding for 30 years. I had to take the test again a couple of years ago due to my age. Based on my previous experience I got the manual and studied it throughly. I found everything in it to quite good with few exceptions. It had been completely revised obviously with biker input.
kk
kk
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The only thing they can ticket you for in the Highway traffic act is failure to stop, if you stopped you stopped, bum charges need to be challenged, I think I would have asked the officer if he preferred day court or night court, that's what they normally ask isn't it?
'No such thing as a legal requirement to put your foot on the ground when you stop a motorcycle.'
I can personally attest to the fact that if one challenges a Texas cop and even worse a state one with an absolute non-changing belief structure like that it is likely going to be a very bad day. When you are with one the law often becomes fluid and things can change like lightning. like with lawyers now many police take law as plastic and molded at the moment to what they say and argument can and WILL put you in jail if you do not play their little game.
BTDT, and over 30 tickets by age 25 and somewhere I pulled my head out to then stop getting them at all. Most of all it requires you to keep your mouth shut. Here simply arguing can get you jail instantly as a flight risk if you do not concur. BTDT too and one ticket turned into five instantly. NEVER issue an absolute to a cop; they will prove you wrong right on the spot and laugh about it.
I've been within seconds of being shot by police at least 3 times and all three doing absolutely nothing wrong, the guns were out and I had to play the game correctly to not have things go much worse.
Way more than one policeman told me the put foot down thing. Not arguing, rather pointing out that insistence otherwise can easily get you worse, here the police will put you in jail instantly just to make you jump through the hoops. You'll pay tow charges, the fine and court fees up front before they let you out of jail and THEN get around to court date setting. And there is NO either you stopped or didn't, there being a wide array of nuances applied to what is commonly an IMPROPER stop charge, which covers anything the cop can dream up. Like one of the five charges above, I stopped the bike with front tire breaking the line by maybe an inch and he went for it. I've also gotten a no stop ticket for skidding the vehicle in the rain but maybe only the last foot of the stop. Losing control of vehicle he called it and improper stop ticket issued again.
Some of you will remember the young woman of color who got arrested in south Texas while the whole time loudly protesting and then ended up in jail and later 'committed suicide' a bizarre example of how things can go if you decide to get all up in a policeman's face, yes, you may be very right but you may be very dead as well.
I used to argue with them and mostly why the tickets but at some point only a dumb-tt doesn't grasp it can get much worse. I say that after having been physically lifted off the ground by my shirt collar to choke me right on the front steps of the police station for all of town to see.
I still back the law but it can bite both ways.
I can personally attest to the fact that if one challenges a Texas cop and even worse a state one with an absolute non-changing belief structure like that it is likely going to be a very bad day. When you are with one the law often becomes fluid and things can change like lightning. like with lawyers now many police take law as plastic and molded at the moment to what they say and argument can and WILL put you in jail if you do not play their little game.
BTDT, and over 30 tickets by age 25 and somewhere I pulled my head out to then stop getting them at all. Most of all it requires you to keep your mouth shut. Here simply arguing can get you jail instantly as a flight risk if you do not concur. BTDT too and one ticket turned into five instantly. NEVER issue an absolute to a cop; they will prove you wrong right on the spot and laugh about it.
I've been within seconds of being shot by police at least 3 times and all three doing absolutely nothing wrong, the guns were out and I had to play the game correctly to not have things go much worse.
Way more than one policeman told me the put foot down thing. Not arguing, rather pointing out that insistence otherwise can easily get you worse, here the police will put you in jail instantly just to make you jump through the hoops. You'll pay tow charges, the fine and court fees up front before they let you out of jail and THEN get around to court date setting. And there is NO either you stopped or didn't, there being a wide array of nuances applied to what is commonly an IMPROPER stop charge, which covers anything the cop can dream up. Like one of the five charges above, I stopped the bike with front tire breaking the line by maybe an inch and he went for it. I've also gotten a no stop ticket for skidding the vehicle in the rain but maybe only the last foot of the stop. Losing control of vehicle he called it and improper stop ticket issued again.
Some of you will remember the young woman of color who got arrested in south Texas while the whole time loudly protesting and then ended up in jail and later 'committed suicide' a bizarre example of how things can go if you decide to get all up in a policeman's face, yes, you may be very right but you may be very dead as well.
I used to argue with them and mostly why the tickets but at some point only a dumb-tt doesn't grasp it can get much worse. I say that after having been physically lifted off the ground by my shirt collar to choke me right on the front steps of the police station for all of town to see.
I still back the law but it can bite both ways.
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