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Discussion Starter #1
For the last year or so, been scrimping and saving enough pennies to get into biking. With a sufficient store of funds to cover the basic accessories and a starter bike, I took the temp test at BMV, and signed up for the Basic Rider Course. Three days, one in classroom, two in a parking lot.

After the classroom, I was not impressed. The "instructors" basically had us taking turns reading out of the MSF manual, and didn't really do much else. I was happy to hear they would not be our "range" instructors. I tried to keep an open mind and not pre-judge the quality of instruction.

After the first day of instruction, I was exhausted! Exhilarated but exhausted. Not only did they have us debrief after each exercise, we kept going through each exercise until everyone got it right.

For some of the riding (clutch control and cornering) I remembered pretty quickly, though the Kawasaki I am on has a finicky clutch position to find and shift into. For others, I had a bit more of a challenge, specifically with quick stops.

The instructors worked with us extensively, giving us pointers and tips throughout the day. It was a great experience, and I would heartily recommend the riding portion for anyone. They challenged each of us, both mentally and physically. I was sufficiently whupped of all my energy by the time I got home and finished dinner.

Granted, it was warm out, and I was sweating a bit, but they did give breaks for hydrating and nourishment, so I think it was just draining to be riding for nearly six hours using muscles and learning or re-learning things I've not done in years!
 

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Sounds like although the Instructors may not be good "Teachers" in a classroom setting, they were just fine, in the Parking Lot training.

Glean as much as you can from it. It's worth the effort! Afterwards, you will find yourself applying the things you learned, (SIPDE, for example).

After the Course is completed, "school" REALLY begins

-Soupy
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
No, the range instructors were different people..the classroom ones were just plain bad.

...

After the classroom, I was not impressed. The "instructors" basically had us taking turns reading out of the MSF manual, and didn't really do much else. I was happy to hear they would not be our "range" instructors.

....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Passed, 2nd best score in the class! I tapped my foot once in the box in advertently, but I'd rather lose 3 points than lay down and fail! The only other gig was I stopped a foot longer than my speed for the quick stop (another point).

High score ran it perfect...and I think he was a returning rider.
 

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I preferred the range over the classroom anyways. I'm a hands on type of learner, you can preach it to me all you want, but I just won't get it till I get my hands dirty.
 

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The stuff that you learn in the classroom is likely more important in the long run than the stuff learned on the range. The actual mechanics of operating a motorcycle become second nature after a while, but properly reacting to traffic and road conditions on the street can be very complex.
 

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I've only found a small percentage of teachers/instructors I've come across in my scholastic and professional life that could teach worth a damn.

It takes a special personality to stand in front of a group of people and make a syllabus approved by a bunch of pencil pushing stiffs (as all people who approve classroom content are) interesting as worthy of their attention.

Most cop out and do what yours did, force engagement on the audience by making them read it aloud.
 

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I only had one such teacher that I remember. My English teacher of all things. I hated English since I already spoke it, so why all the formal stuff. But she tired very hard to make everyone understand why it was needed. Really beat on me about it but I knew better that I would have no need for that stuff since I was a hands on kind of guy. I always wished I could get back to her and show her that some off it worked. I ended up at one point in a 30 year career writing procedures. I was told by some that I wrote good ones and maybe so. I do know that even college grads could use them and get the job done.:) This was in the computer industry by the way. Started off as a printer and ended career as a systems engineer. You do remember the good teachers. Mrs. May in my case. Little bitty thing but she was tough.
 

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The msf curriculum is based on adult learning, also called "learner-based" education. There is a series of questions in the workbook that are answered and discussed by the class during the course.

There is very little lecturing involved from the coaches as self discovery has been determined to be more effective in adult training than simply being given all the answers directly from a lecture.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The msf curriculum is based on adult learning, also called "learner-based" education. There is a series of questions in the workbook that are answered and discussed by the class during the course.

There is very little lecturing involved from the coaches as self discovery has been determined to be more effective in adult training than simply being given all the answers directly from a lecture.
As a professional trainer, educator, and instructor across several curricula, I am quite familiar with "learner-based" educational models, and even with adult learning, the job of the instructor is not to simply lean against a back wall and snooze while the adult learners self-discover...it's to guide that discovery through directed questions, engaging activity, and other modalities. Further, adult learning theory only works if all the learners are adults, and the students ranged anywhere from 17 to 60...meaning multiple modalities are needed.

If they had followed the ADDIE model, there would have been value for all age ranges, and the instructors would have been able to ascertain when students were engaged or not and adjust accordingly. Instead, they chose to take turns napping while another tiredly followed along as students read verbatim out of the book.

Frankly, I am appalled that anyone at this point is defending the instruction...

To RobMoore's point, it does indeed take a special personality and my expectation is that instructors are vetted to ensure that only those who meet specific criteria are entitled to wear the MSF shirt.

I've taught everything from Political Science, to basic computer operation, to custom SaaS software, firearms safety (NRA instructor), and I've always felt it's my duty and obligation to ensure that I have the right methods to accommodate as many learners as I can in the class - meaning if I see someone who is not engaged or does not appear to be getting anything out of it, I'll start throwing in additional tangential stuff that is just as useful to their development as the core curriculum.

The core curriculum is just that - a core...and the full curriculum should always be more encompassing than what the "pencil pushers" dictate.

Now granted, I am probably one of the more educationally motivated learners out there and I have stringent criteria for those from whom I learn, but expecting instructors to not nap during class is something that I think everyone can agree is unacceptable.

ETA: And for what it's worth, the series of questions from the book were pages not even covered...:eek:
 

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Napping? Ok, I can see why you didn't like the classroom part. My teacher was fun. He was very open to questions and talking about real life situations. Sounds like you got a teacher that wasn't very interested in teaching, but hopefully, they are the minority.
 

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It sounds like the instructors were not some of the better ones. This doesn't represent the msf program as a whole. Most rider coaches are enthusiastic about teaching people to ride safely and passionate about motorcycling in general.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It sounds like the instructors were not some of the better ones. This doesn't represent the msf program as a whole. Most rider coaches are enthusiastic about teaching people to ride safely and passionate about motorcycling in general.
I suspect the same as the range instructors were head and shoulders above the first two. The first two were just a disaster...

Ignorant on some items, negligent on others, and sometimes derelict...
 

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It sounds like the instructors were not some of the better ones. This doesn't represent the msf program as a whole. Most rider coaches are enthusiastic about teaching people to ride safely and passionate about motorcycling in general.

+1

My experience as well. Most coaches are quality.



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Cbjason: just curios - did the classroom instruction you did include videos? Or just a book with color illustrations ?


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