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American Legion Rider
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What type of vest?
I have all kinds. Leather to textile, with internal holster and plain, shirts 2 sizes larger than I wear with sleeves removed and tails cut off and hemmed(thanks to my wife), insulated and not. You name it I have it. Even leather fronts with textile backs. You just never see me without a vest as some kind cover. It's my style so people don't question it. I even wear my vest with blue jean cutoff shorts. You see me, I have a vest on. Is there aways a CCW? You'll never know. That's the beauty of a vest and you are always seen with one.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #22
Anybody use a shoulder harness? Any advantages over a regular holster? Any faster to draw? I've been thinking about getting one for my .38 'wheel' gun, but I haven't read anything about ease of use, comfort, 'tells', or other possible disadvantages.
I've used shoulder holsters in the past with medium/small-ish size firearms and fairly large size firearms.
Uncomfortable in my experience, slower to draw than a good strong side holster and bulky.
I still have a leather Bianchi S H for a 357 magnum that is probably 30 years old and still looks near new, tells you how often I use it.

S F
 

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American Legion Rider
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19,449 Posts
There are good and bad things about a shoulder rig. That's all I used for awhile.

The good...
  1. You can carry a huge weapon
  2. Because of weight distribution you almost can't tell you have anything
  3. Very easy to draw on a bike if you are left handed with a cross-draw holster

The bad...
  1. You do pick up moisture
  2. Depending on weapon you may print or even expose slightly
  3. Not so easy to draw right handed with cross-draw on bike
  4. Time consuming to adjust the first time
  5. Can be very expensive in a custom
 

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Thanks Semi and Hog. That's the info I'm looking for. Although I live in an 'open carry' State, I really don't see the point in advertising what I have. That was why I asked. My friend has a SH, maybe I'll borrow it for a little bit and see how well I can adapt to it. Or get a longer jacket.
 

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@ketchboy Like almost any type of concealed carry it takes a while to get used to and adjusting the shoulder holster rig for proper fit. It's usually a bit more time consuming than other types. It is slower to get the handgun presented from a shoulder holster as compared to strong side carry, and it's a bit more complex of a draw method to prevent sweeping your own body parts. If the rig is too tight it will rub and if too loose it will flop when running, or shift out of position. I found the rigs that are designed to equalize out the weight (side to side), are more comfortable and stay in position better, like carrying spare magazines opposite to the gun, or speed loaders in the case of a revolver. Other items that can be carried opposite of the gun, in addition to spare loaders, for counter weight are a tactical light and/or tactical blade. Plain cloths police sometimes carry cuffs for counter weight. Usually larger handguns carried on smaller body frames are more difficult to prevent printing, as smaller handguns carried by those with larger body frames are easier to prevent printing. The choice of cover garments is a key to prevent printing in either case.

One thing the shoulder holster fails at is drawing with the 2nd hand in the event the 1st hand is occupied or perhaps injured, which should be a consideration as a possibility in a lethal battle. Again, like other methods of concealed carry, attention should be paid to the handgun retention design, especially as time goes on and retention design may wear and become weak. Especially with those shoulder holster designs that position the handgun with grip down or slanted down. It also takes some time to get the rig broken in and the user getting used to and training to be efficient. Hope some of this helps.
 

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There is also the potential of sweeping across bystanders. Something many frown upon.
Yes agree. There are methods of drawing from a shoulder holster that may eliminate the danger of sweeping innocent others in most situations. If the shoulder holster of of the grip UP design, we draw the handgun upwards and out of the holster keeping the muzzle pointed down. As we rotate our wrist to bring the handgun into the chest retention position the muzzle points down and up towards the threat and then we push out on target. The hazard is to the feet, but refining the technique this can be avoided by both the carriers feet and bystanders feet. It sounds a bit complex but is not any slower than the whip it out covering our arms and everyone else like we often see in the movies, once the carrier takes the time to perfect it.

With the grip down design, the draw technique is very similar, a bit faster, we pull forward out of the holster, rotate the muzzle down, clearing the feet, rotate the wrist as we keep the muzzle forward in the direction of the threat to the retention position and then push out on target. However, with this design, innocent bystanders to the carriers rear may be in jeopardy. If the design keeps the handgun in the horizontal position, then someone to the rear may have their chest/stomach covered even before the handgun is drawn. If the design is the grip down and muzzle up, than a person to the rear that was close to the carrier may have their head covered.

We know that guns don't kill people, people kill people, so a static handgun in a holster presents little threat, but as soon as we grip the gun, it now becomes a threat to anyone in line with the muzzle. If we practice trigger control, again this should not present a grave danger, but if the carrier is haphazard or over loaded with excitement, they could lapse in trigger control and then a premature discharge would be possible. Regardless, I'm personally not comfortable standing close behind a carrier with a shoulder holster when that handgun muzzle would be pointed in my direction whether that be static or in a panic draw!

Muzzle discipline may also a concern when standing close to someone with a cross draw rig, appendix carry, or small of the back carry! Even a strong side hip holster with an FBI forward cant can cover the feet/legs of an innocent bystander.
 

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American Legion Rider
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Exactly. And it is something I trained on for hours. Muscle memory with a shoulder holster demands you spend a lot of time training so that when the adrenaline is raging you don't make a rookie mistake and mentally forget what you are doing. For that reason it is probably harder than other means of carry.

It's the only way to carry the Taurus Judge type weapons to my way of thinking. That's my snake gun of choice and we are quickly coming to the beginning of snake season here.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #29
I've seen body type mentioned here as it relates to shoulder holsters.
That is my problem when carrying a fairly large gun in a shoulder holster. I'm thin and tall-ish. Makes it near impossible to effectively conceal a big gun in a shoulder rig, uncomfortable too.
I just use strong side holsters these days. When hunting I sometimes carry (open) and even then I'll likely use a cross draw belt holster or a strong side holster for a revolver depending on weather I'm long gun hunting or handguning only.

S F
 

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I've seen body type mentioned here as it relates to shoulder holsters.
That is my problem when carrying a fairly large gun in a shoulder holster. I'm thin and tall-ish. Makes it near impossible to effectively conceal a big gun in a shoulder rig, uncomfortable too.
I just use strong side holsters these days. When hunting I sometimes carry (open) and even then I'll likely use a cross draw belt holster or a strong side holster for a revolver depending on weather I'm long gun hunting or handguning only.

S F
Yes I agree, although I'm not tall, I'm on the thin side and with the other complications of a shoulder holster, I prefer strong side carry. I carry open and/or concealed. But in my neck of the woods it is common for open carry. I always carry more than 1-2 lethal tools, so sometimes I will carry a handgun concealed and another open carry. Cops would refer to this as a backup, but often my concealed is the primary and the open is the decoy/backup. Or, I will carry a handgun open or concealed and a couple blades as alternatives or in some situations they would be the primary.

Occasionally I will carry shoulder holster because of certain physical restraints I have from time to time, which prevents the hip carry stress on my old joints during long distances on foot. Most often when I do carry strong side hip (and this alternates from side to side, because I'm effective using either hand, so I alternate), it is in a straight up holster design (as opposed to either forward or rearward cant), because that provides for the quickest draw and is accessible from my #2 hand.

There are many styles of concealed and open carry, giving different folks different options. Some are better that others at times, and some are no worse than other at times. We all know, despite the style of carry we select at any given time, smooth-precise-deliberate economy of motion provides speed, very fast speed. Couple that with developing a strong positive mindset and preparation for being ready when we need to be, will promote winning confidence.
 

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Last night I went to a seminar about church security. Presentations from: FBI, Citrus Heights PD, Sacramento Sheriffs, and about 5 other organizations. It just covered the tip of the ice burg from each presenter. It was put on by the Sacramento Chapter of InfraGard. A lot of good information that needs follow up (training, workshops, threat assessments, etc.) to be of any use, but my church is putting together a security team. Trust in God but pass the ammo.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #33
my church is putting together a security team. Trust in God but pass the ammo.
The church in this case had a security team that was able to stop a madman with a gun.
Even though they did lose two brave souls, I believe this is the only time a low life was stopped sooner than later in this type of setting.
It made for a wake-up call to many.
Your church is proof of that along with others I know that are now taking classes and arming themselves.
Some of these people are those that used to laugh at me for demanding a seat in restaurants, and such, where I could watch things because I was the only one armed.
They are not laughing anymore! They finally saw the light and are now asking for help on how to proceed in arming themselves in a safe manor.
Reminds me of the saying: A liberal is just a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet.

S F
 

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@Thom49 does that security plan include arming members or hiring armed guards? Did anyone during the presentation advocate armed security?
Several members are already armed, been that way for years so we don't plan on hiring guards.
No one at the presentation "advocated" for armed security but is was heavily implied. Probably some legal or procedural issue preventing them from advocating arming members. There are some members I wouldn't trust with a weapon. The one's who carry I trust.
We rent space from another church and have been in contact with them to allow Sac Sheriff's office to come out and do a security assessment. We been watching a 5-DVD on church security. Check out www.sheepdogseminars.com.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #36
No one at the presentation "advocated" for armed security but is was heavily implied. Probably some legal of procedural issue preventing them from advocating arming members.
It's most likely a concern over liability.
If a church official of any kind openly advocates people in the church arming themselves and a stray bullet gets away and harms anyone other than the bad guy... Here comes the lawyers.
And being in liberal anti-gun CA, HERE COMES THE LAWYERS, BIG TIME !

S F
 

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Yea, the US Constitution and Bill of Rights doesn't give us rights, it protects our God Given, Natural Born, Human Rights against the government from taking them away. That protection has never been all inclusive, as politicians started eating away at them since the protections were ratified and will not stop.
 
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