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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Warning,Graphic Video:
Thank God some worshipers were armed and able to stop this madman before he killed even more people.
Before you watch you should know people are shot and killed in this church live stream video.
Sometimes videos like this are removed from the source, but as long as it lasts... Here it is.

 

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Thanks for sharing that. All the news stories are showing it severely cut up.

Victim #1 made a bad mistake attempting to draw from concealment in clear view of the bad guy. Good intentions, but....
 

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The good guy shooter did one thing that so many people don't do. Practice, practice, practice! A CCW will do no good if you don't practice. I practice once a week (weather permitting) for three hours at a time. And even that is not enough if you haven't been in a 'true' combat situation. Hats off to the good guy.
 

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American Legion Rider
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A CCW will do no good if you don't practice
Could not agree more. Proof as the closer guy was unable to
bring his gun into play before being hit by the dang shooter.
This is a real world example of why formal training and practice
are very much needed. I know I don't practice enough in the
draw and shoot. I draw and shoot tennis balls for fun but it
isn't the same as what was needed in this situation.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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The good guy shooter did one thing that so many people don't do. Practice, practice, practice! A CCW will do no good if you don't practice. I practice once a week (weather permitting) for three hours at a time. And even that is not enough if you haven't been in a 'true' combat situation. Hats off to the good guy.
He was the head of the church security team. He also owns and operates a range. He also trained the team.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #9
It has also been reported that he had to take a head shot because to many people were in the way for him to do the usual, and lower, center of mass shot/s.
That guy is good.

S F
 

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You could tell the guy was a pro. Proper stance and gun positioning. Plus, and this is very important, He never lowered his weapon, even after he made his shot. His eyes and weapon were always on target until he could confirm there was no longer a threat.
 

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It has also been reported that he had to take a head shot because to many people were in the way for him to do the usual, and lower, center of mass shot/s.
That guy is good.
After watching the live stream video and doing some angle lines of the fatal shot to the perpetrator, it appears security had a clear shot. However I would not argue with your report as he may have thought in the few seconds he had to evaluate that there was a possibility of interference and/or collateral damage. It is undisputed, in this situation the head would be the least protected by armor and therefore the most vulnerable. To the front side of the head (face), it would be center mass to the face, the inverted triangle presented by striking a line across the top of the eye sockets, with lines from each end down to the bottom of the nose. From the rear center mass of the head lower third, from the side the ear canal, are all good places that even the low power of typical concealed carry handgun will penetrate and perform lights out for DRT.
 

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American Legion Rider
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Y'all are dissecting this way too much. The good guy got rid of a bad guy saving us big bucks. Makes him even a bigger good guy. But I agree with him, too many chances of hitting someone so go high. Not sure, no, I doubt seriously if I would have had the right frame of mind to take that all in, in that short span of time. But I could see the possibility of someone getting in the line of fire. Hesitation will kill you so you must react and react now. What I absolute abhor is the good guy immediately becomes the bad guy in so many minds. The good guy should be protected from kind of BS. Getting rid of scum is good. Period the end.
 

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Though I haven't heard anyone bad mouthing this hero, I don't doubt there are MSM buttwipes on TV crying over the dead murderer. I won't watch them anymore because they're so disgusting.

I watch the local news and weather reports. When they turn to national news, I tune them out because I know they are not credible reporters. They are the same people that killed the story on Epstein because it looked bad for the butts they were kissing.
 

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We haven't had any real news since Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow. Now days it's just opinion and being told what to believe.
 

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Ace Tuner
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Discussion Starter #16
While at the range, carrying strong side, I was practicing sweeping my coat back, drawing and firing.
It takes just under, or up to about two seconds for me to draw, get on target and fire hitting center of mass from a distance of about 7+ yards.
I'm thinking It might take longer if I have to raise my shirt when I'm not using a coat as a cover garment. I'll try that next time and find out using a long tail shirt as a cover garment.
I studied the shooting in the video.
As best I can tell (from the view in the video) it took the low life murderer approximately 3.5 seconds from the time I could see him present the shotgun until he was able to fire his first shot.
Moral of the story: Carrying in such a way that you can draw and fire FAST, important !

S F :mad:
 

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That's why I always wear a vest. T shirt or not, summer or winter, you'll always see me with a vest. Even shirtless. Well everywhere except in the pool. :D :D :D
 

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Anybody use a shoulder harness? Any advantages over a regular holster? Any faster to draw? I've been thinking about getting one for my .38 'wheel' gun, but I haven't read anything about ease of use, comfort, 'tells', or other possible disadvantages.
 

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I studied the shooting in the video.
As best I can tell (from the view in the video) it took the low life murderer approximately 3.5 seconds from the time I could see him present the shotgun until he was able to fire his first shot.
Moral of the story: Carrying in such a way that you can draw and fire FAST, important !
I agree, from the time he started his draw until the first shot was fired it was about 3.5 seconds. I don't agree with "was able to fire", rather for what ever reason he delayed his shot, as he was able to fire much sooner, more like 1.5 seconds. I don't think this killer was immediately ready to kill, rather first to threaten, then at his leisure kill whoever he was targeting. But when victim #1 drew his handgun the killer reacted by shooting him while withdrawing, then shot victim #2. He appeared not to be well trained or trained at all as a killer. This support the fact that the majority of killer are not well trained or trained at all in the processing of efficiently killing in the shortest time.

If he had the intent of murdering as many as possible and had been trained, he could have murder all five of the persons along the wall before anyone else could have intervened. The first clue we have is the shotgun with a pistol grip and no stock. A trained and capable killer would not have chosen to use a pistol grip when he could have easily concealed a should stock shotgun under his long coat, and a should stock provides advantages to shooting any long gun.

Drawing and firing a handgun from an open jacket from a strong side holster and making an effective shot at 7 yards in 2 seconds is respectable, I commend you on your ability.

The par time for drawing and making a head shot at 3 yards is 1.5 seconds. That can be done from various styles of carry as well as open concealed carry. Open concealed carry is drawing a concealed weapon from something like an unbuttoned jacket, short, sweatshirt, small of the back, appendix, etc., as opposed to deep concealed which would be a shoulder holster, ankle holster, strong side from a zipped or buttoned up coat, etc.

Par time at 7 yards and making 2 center mass shots, would also be 1.5 seconds. With that all said, all tings being equal, we need to realize that 'action' beats 'reaction' 100% of the time, there are no exceptions. The hero in this gun fight had the advantage as the killer was busy murdering 2 others.

Although the mechanics of drawing and shooting fast may be important to our defense, they are after mind set and preparations to be ready and willing.
 
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