[450zuki]

"Discussion" in another thread that I moved here because we were hijacking the original poster.

I witnessed a Can-Am nearly flip (driver very surprised/scared face) turning a corner at low speed, I called them dangerous, and another member attacked me, saying "Sorry. That's totally incorrect. They have built in software that keeps that from happening."

We went back-n-forth over it, then I nuked him with Can-Ams own safety video saying "it goes without saying....the risk of tipping or rolling over is real...physical laws still exist".

~~~~~

In one of my replies, I say "I will walk before I ever drive a machine that has the ability to override my decisions as a driver."

Then another member jumps in and says this:

"Properly designed and functioning vehicle control hardware and software can do a FAR better job than you, I, or any other human can ever do in keeping 'unusual' vehicle dynamic situations under control."


Ok, folks, so do you want to drive the machine, or do you want the machine to drive you?

At what point of the machine "deciding the correct move" do you stop participating?


PS> Always wondered how someone could own, ride in, a vehicle (cough! Telsa) that is known for "auto-piloting" it's owner straight to the graveyard...and don't get me started with Boeing's "software upgrades"...the day is coming when the "pilot" of the plane is safely on the ground (probably) in India/China...that is the day I stop flying 100%.

 

[Retired Guy]

The best electronic driving/flying/riding aids assist the operator, they don't replace the operator. For myself, if I could have any car in the world, I'd like a '70 Chevelle SS with the 454 cid engine and a 4 speed. It's not the most expensive or best performing car in the world, but I just like'em. Don't think they had any electronics, not even sure they had cup holders.

 

[450zuki]

The best electronic driving/flying/riding aids assist the operator, they don't replace the operator. For myself, if I could have any car in the world, I'd like a '70 Chevelle SS with the 454 cid engine and a 4 speed. It's not the most expensive or best performing car in the world, but I just like'em. Don't think they had any electronics, not even sure they had cup holders.

Mechanical odometers...that could be "turned back"

With a socket/wrench set, a service manual and a big hammer, you could make any repair yourself; and have pride/satisfaction in doing so...in 2019, the "service department waiting areas" are embarrassingly filled with young "men" waiting for their cars back while sipping a Starbucks...

..and yep, no cup holders...you had to buy those extra and they slipped between the glass and door panel...a difficult install, yes, but the men of those days were more than capable.

 

[Jo6pak]

ahh, yes. The door cup holder that would splash soda on you if you weren't careful closing the door.
Or for when you slammed the door, and splashed cola all over you brother

 

[3crows]

I am okay with ABS especially if it can be switched off. Same with traction control as long as there is a switch.

Biker? I am not a biker, I am a motorcyclist and I ride a motorcycle and try, but not always successful, to avoid bike if I mean a motorcycle. Bikers are gang members, usually illegal sorts, I always thought it a negative connotation?

 

[vito]

Ultimately I rely upon myself and my skills when riding, but I have no problem using the additional help that the newer electronic safety aids can provide. I have yet to activate the ABS on my bike, other than when I deliberately got it to activate in a large parking lot, but its good knowing it is there in case I need it. Despite all of my years riding, a sudden car or truck entering my immediate front could get me to grab just a bit too much front brake in that emergency, and the ABS might well be what keeps me upright as I come to a stop. If blind spot monitoring, intelligent cruise control, lane stability, etc. were available on my bike I would welcome those additions. Until bikes offer gyroscopic self balancing as a safety aid, there is little chance of dozing off while riding and transferring all responsibility to the electronics (although self balancing at slow speed would be a nice addition so that I would never have to put my feet down until I am done with the ride). Personally, I don't see how the extras on my bike take anything away from the riding experience. Just the opposite, I think that they can make riding more enjoyable, sort of like a backup co-pilot to keep you out of trouble.

 

[450zuki]

If blind spot monitoring, intelligent cruise control, lane stability, etc. were available on my bike I would welcome those additions.

More cost...but any more safe or fun?

If this keeps going, 250cc bikes will base price at $20,000 and have so many "safety features" they'll lull people into thinking "it's safe, the computer will save me"...and I'll bet deaths increase.

NHTSA says ABS had no effect on reducing overall death rates...it just changed who died in what situations...ABS saved just as many lives as it took....so, when you buy ABS, you're literally paying "to die this way, instead of that way"...waste of money.