[bweighmaster]

Your safety is up to you . You have to watch out for the fools .... You have to drive defensively .... You need to wear bright clothing ... You have your life in your own hands .
You need to know that nobody but us , ( bikers ) can , or care to see us ... ... , I ride daily , ride everything from 150 cc scooter to Honda Silverwing with trike kit . Shadow 750 . All in city / highway , and local paved backroads . Been doing it for over 60 yrs .. , .. Keep your eyes open , forget about ear buds , Head on a swivel . And covered with a good helmet ...
Be safe out there , and Enjoy ....

 

[Annihilator]

To miss a spinning car on the track, they say to head straight at it & it won't be there when you get there.
Sooooo....

I've been wondering if I should aim toward a left-turner's right (his right) headlight just in case.
If I aim toward the white line, I would have to swerve around the entire vehicle (broadside) or take an off road adventure (at an intersection where there are likely to be other things to hit)
If I aim toward his right, I only have to split vehicles (maybe) on the double yellow.

I also wear the most obnoxiously loud high-vis vest you have ever seen.
(Not sure it was mentioned in the preceding posts)

The answer is to slow down for intersections. A huge factor in every one of these motorcycle accidents is the rider barreling through the intersection at high speed. Slow down to 35mph and then it won't matter if someone left turns you because you can be at a full stop in 20 feet.

 

[pdcomm]

That^ . Or even slower .

 

[canadianguy]

The answer is to slow down for intersections. A huge factor in every one of these motorcycle accidents is the rider barreling through the intersection at high speed. Slow down to 35mph and then it won't matter if someone left turns you because you can be at a full stop in 20 feet.

I always slow down, cover my front brake and approach with caution but to say that it's always motorcyclists that are barreling though intersections is disingenuous. There are too many scenarios were it's unavoidable and no fault of the motorcyclist.

 

[Annihilator]

I always slow down, cover my front brake and approach with caution but to say that it's always motorcyclists that are barreling though intersections is disingenuous. There are too many scenarios were it's unavoidable and no fault of the motorcyclist.

I watch thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mototcycle crash videos on YouTube every year. I can think of only one where the motorcycle wasn't barreling through the intersection at high speed. And in that video the guy was going about 25mph, had a lazy delayed reaction to avoid the left turner, clipped the rear bumper, wobbled for a moment then went down at like 15mph. He was actually killed at 15mph because he wasn't wearing a helmet and bumped his head on the ground. I cant find the clip but its incredible to watch because its so low speed its like slow motion.

Obviously nothing is 100%, but I'd say that in 99% of left turn accidents the rider did not cut their speed for the intersection. They go through it at 10 or 15 over the limit like they have no fear.

 

[canadianguy]

I watch thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mototcycle crash videos on YouTube every year. I can think of only one where the motorcycle wasn't barreling through the intersection at high speed. And in that video the guy was going about 25mph, had a lazy delayed reaction to avoid the left turner, clipped the rear bumper, wobbled for a moment then went down at like 15mph. He was actually killed at 15mph because he wasn't wearing a helmet and bumped his head on the ground. I cant find the clip but its incredible to watch because its so low speed its like slow motion.

Obviously nothing is 100%, but I'd say that in 99% of left turn accidents the rider did not cut their speed for the intersection. They go through it at 10 or 15 over the limit like they have no fear.

Well you only said 99% so I agree with you there, nothing is 100%. cheers

 

[Fast_Jimmy]

I watch thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mototcycle crash videos on YouTube every year. I can think of only one where the motorcycle wasn't barreling through the intersection at high speed. And in that video the guy was going about 25mph, had a lazy delayed reaction to avoid the left turner, clipped the rear bumper, wobbled for a moment then went down at like 15mph. He was actually killed at 15mph because he wasn't wearing a helmet and bumped his head on the ground. I cant find the clip but its incredible to watch because its so low speed its like slow motion.

Obviously nothing is 100%, but I'd say that in 99% of left turn accidents the rider did not cut their speed for the intersection. They go through it at 10 or 15 over the limit like they have no fear.

I'd wouldn't in a million years post something blaming 99 percent of left-turn driver incursions on the cyclists for a several reasons.

1. You can't base something like this on the youtube videos you've watched, it's completely unscientific and people recording themselves on youtube are quite often trying to make an interesting video out of the ride. The Hurt report specifically states that the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents. This is, by definition, NOT the fault of speeding motorcyclists in '99 percent of cases' as you estimate.

2. It blames cyclists for accidents that are violations of their right of way

3. You are drastically minimizing the danger in your post and seem to be trying to reassure riders that left-turning drivers WON'T hurt them if they aren't speeding. It directly contradicts Invisibility training- which is important if motorcyclists want to ride and keep breathing- and seems almost intended to introduce a false complacency. I can't even begin to understand what you're trying to accomplish.

In 3 of the 4 stories I posted (3 on post number 1 and the one below), there was no mention of speeding or erratic driving. That's 75 percent of motorcyclists killed by left turning drivers with no fault from the rider from my examples from actual incidents here in Lincoln, NE. Why on Earth you would try to imply that people riding the speed limit can cruise through intersections and not worry about possible lane incursions is completely beyond me. Here is the update on my post from earlier this week which involved a now-dead 29 year old just trying to go through an intersection with a green light on a Suzuki S50:

White, who had a green traffic signal when he entered the intersection and was wearing a helmet, died at the scene, police said.

Witnesses told police that White tried to stop but wasn't able to before colliding with Kelly's sedan as it turned.

Lincoln driver, motorcyclist identified in fatal Monday night crash | Crime and Courts | journalstar.com

 

[Annihilator]

I'd wouldn't in a million years post something blaming 99 percent of left-turn driver incursions on the cyclists for a several reasons.

1. You can't base something like this on the youtube videos you've watched, it's completely unscientific and people recording themselves on youtube are quite often trying to make an interesting video out of the ride.

2. It blames cyclists for accidents that are violations of their right of way

3. You are drastically minimizing the danger in your post and seem to be trying to reassure riders that left-turning drivers WON'T hurt them if they aren't speeding. It directly contradicts Invisibility training- which is important if motorcyclists want to ride and keep breathing- and seems almost intended to introduce a false complacency. I can't even begin to understand what you're trying to accomplish.

In 3 of the 4 stories I posted (3 on post number 1 and the one below), there was no mention of speeding or erratic driving. That's 75 percent of motorcyclists killed by left turning drivers with no fault from the rider from my examples from actual incidents here in Lincoln, NE. Why in hell you would try to imply that people should cruise through intersections and in the face of possible lane incursions and not worry is completely beyond me. Here is the update on my post from earlier this week which involved a now-dead 29 year old just trying to go through an intersection with a green light on a Suzuki S50:

White, who had a green traffic signal when he entered the intersection and was wearing a helmet, died at the scene, police said.

Witnesses told police that White tried to stop but wasn't able to before colliding with Kelly's sedan as it turned.

Lincoln driver, motorcyclist identified in fatal Monday night crash | Crime and Courts | journalstar.com

But how do you get in an accident if you are going slow and expecting the person to left turn? The videos would exist if it were common.

Furthermore, the speeding motorcycle does not necessarily have right of way. If you are doing twice the speed limit then the left turner only has half the time to safely complete the turn. The only reason the collision happened was because of the speed of the motorcycle. And you cant expect oncoming traffic to judge your speed, and iirc, Archimedes law dictates that your brain will not recognize the speed.

 

[DannoXYZ]

I watch thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mototcycle crash videos on YouTube every year. I can think of only one where the motorcycle wasn't barreling through the intersection at high speed. And in that video the guy was going about 25mph, had a lazy delayed reaction to avoid the left turner, clipped the rear bumper, wobbled for a moment then went down at like 15mph. He was actually killed at 15mph because he wasn't wearing a helmet and bumped his head on the ground. I cant find the clip but its incredible to watch because its so low speed its like slow motion.

Obviously nothing is 100%, but I'd say that in 99% of left turn accidents the rider did not cut their speed for the intersection. They go through it at 10 or 15 over the limit like they have no fear.

You realize of course that's not representative of ALL moto crashes that occur right? That's 28-crashes per day. Do you know how many there are Word-wide total?

 

[Fast_Jimmy]

But how do you get in an accident if you are going slow and expecting the person to left turn? The videos would exist if it were common.

Furthermore, the speeding motorcycle does not necessarily have right of way. If you are doing twice the speed limit then the left turner only has half the time to safely complete the turn. The only reason the collision happened was because of the speed of the motorcycle. And you cant expect oncoming traffic to judge your speed, and iirc, Archimedes law dictates that your brain will not recognize the speed.

You can get in an accident by proceeding through the intersection at or near the speed limit when a left turning driver crosses your path, which is exactly what the Hurt report says is the most common cause and my anecdotal incidents support. I'm trying to save lives here by advocating that riders practice invisibility safety tactics, I can't begin to comprehend what you're trying to accomplish.

It's a great idea not to speed through intersections. It's equally vital NOT to assume that left turning drivers will obey traffic laws and won't turn in to your path. There is no question that those drivers are killing law-abiding motorcyclists every day as they have been doing for many decades.

You realize of course that's not representative of ALL moto crashes that occur right? That's 28-crashes per day. Do you know how many there are Word-wide total?

You're giving too much credit. Besides the clearly inaccurate claim that he's watching thousands or even 'tens of thousands' of unique crashes yearly meeting the criteria, it's clear he's being contrarian just for the sake of it.

 

[DannoXYZ]

My brother got killed by turning left at intersection. Did absolutely nothing wrong, followed all traffic rules and speed-limits.

He got clobbered by red-light runner who was from out-of-state and wasn't familiar with that intersection and was looking at wrong traffic-light due to curve in road leading up to intersection. There was big truck in left-lane stopped on other side at light blocking view of both sides. So he didn't see red-light runner and they didn't see him until he was right in front of them.

Just because 10,000 idiots a year survived their stupidity and posted it on YouTube, doesn't mean the other 500,000/yr who got hit was just as lame.

 

[Eagle Six]

In my small town the surface street speed limit is 35 mph. In the nearest metro area (Phoenix) most all the surface streets are 45 mph. During high volume traffic (work) in my small town to keep up with traffic that is going to be 40 mph and in Phoenix it will be between 55-60 mph. Any of which, 35-60 mph, is enough it is unlikely a motorcyclist can avoid a left turner or red light runner that appears at the last second and any of these speeds are enough to present a lethal crash. Slowing below the limit is an option in light traffic, but during peak traffic not so much. I think is it safer to keep up with the flow of traffic and use positioning for added protection.

 

[bweighmaster]

But how do you get in an accident if you are going slow and expecting the person to left turn? The videos would exist if it were common.

Furthermore, the speeding motorcycle does not necessarily have right of way. If you are doing twice the speed limit then the left turner only has half the time to safely complete the turn. The only reason the collision happened was because of the speed of the motorcycle. And you cant expect oncoming traffic to judge your speed, and iirc, Archimedes law dictates that your brain will not recognize the speed.

Sorry , I don't believe you were there , or know the whole story .... Just pointing out facts ...

 

[DannoXYZ]

In my small town the surface street speed limit is 35 mph. In the nearest metro area (Phoenix) most all the surface streets are 45 mph. During high volume traffic (work) in my small town to keep up with traffic that is going to be 40 mph and in Phoenix it will be between 55-60 mph. Any of which, 35-60 mph, is enough it is unlikely a motorcyclist can avoid a left turner or red light runner that appears at the last second and any of these speeds are enough to present a lethal crash. Slowing below the limit is an option in light traffic, but during peak traffic not so much. I think is it safer to keep up with the flow of traffic and use positioning for added protection.

Exactly, as already have been shown many times, moving with flow of traffic is safest for motorcyclists. Many, many crashes have occurred by being rear-ended because they "didn't see you". In traffic or at stop-lights.

This variable is one of reasons CHP was proposing increasing national speed-limit way back in early '90s. Because there was too much difference in speed on freeway and it was dangerous. People naturally drive at comfortable speed. Freeways were designed and built in '50-60s for comfortable 72-mph speed-limit. With modern vehicles with better tyres, suspension and brakes, 80-mph is comfortable speed.

But then you had zealots who claimed ANY deviation from national 55mph speed-limit was criminal and eeevil! So you've got most people driving around 75-80mph on freeway, swerving around anchors going 55mph. Not to mention these folks were getting onto freeway and changing lanes @ 55mph!

Of course insurance companies were all in arms claiming mass-murder, genocide and mayhem on freeways!!! As it turned out, the month after national speed-limit was increased from 55 to 65mph, traffic accident rates dropped compared to same month year before!

 

[johnny42]

When I read the newspapers about these collisions, the driver always says, "I didn't see him".

So that's what you have to keep in mind as a rider. Folks simply don't see you.

Ride accordingly!!

 

[DannoXYZ]

When I read the newspapers about these collisions, the driver always says, "I didn't see him".

So that's what you have to keep in mind as a rider. Folks simply don't see you.

Ride accordingly!!

yup, neon vests, I even paint my helmet neon colours. And installed flasher circuit so can flash all my winkers to stand out. Even so, about once a month, someone moves into my lane without seeing me. Of course I move out of way in plenty of time. I never want to be carried away on stretcher claiming, "But I had right-of-way damnit!".

More traffic laws won't change anything. I think there needs to be more rigorous drivers training to get licence, add motorcycle awareness to cirriculum and higher passing standards for everyone. And perhaps tiered licensing for motobikes like in many other countries.

 

[Annihilator]

You can get in an accident by proceeding through the intersection at or near the speed limit when a left turning driver crosses your path, which is exactly what the Hurt report says is the most common cause and my anecdotal incidents support. I'm trying to save lives here by advocating that riders practice invisibility safety tactics, I can't begin to comprehend what you're trying to accomplish.

It's a great idea not to speed through intersections. It's equally vital NOT to assume that left turning drivers will obey traffic laws and won't turn in to your path. There is no question that those drivers are killing law-abiding motorcyclists every day as they have been doing for many decades.



You're giving too much credit. Besides the clearly inaccurate claim that he's watching thousands or even 'tens of thousands' of unique crashes yearly meeting the criteria, it's clear he's being contrarian just for the sake of it.

You're trying to save lives? You literally just told people to swerve towards oncoming traffic and now your panties are in a bunch because I said slow down at intersections.

Extreme irony.

 

[bweighmaster]

Cool off , it's just different opinions . Nothing personal ...... YET ....

 

[Retired Guy]

More traffic laws won't change anything. I think there needs to be more rigorous drivers training to get licence, add motorcycle awareness to cirriculum and higher passing standards for everyone. And perhaps tiered licensing for motobikes like in many other countries.

Unfortunately setting higher standards for anything, doesn't seem to be a priority for anything in this country.

 

[FlipFlop]

Alright everyone settle down.

We all ride and know how we ride, and we know our area how we ride, and everything said is opinion. Let keep it friendly or this thread will be locked.