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2015 BMW K1600GTL & 2008 Harley Davidson Dyna Super Glide Custom
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For bikes going to Asia. All 6,000 of them. Kind of a non issue

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Swamp Rat Rider
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Is just good business for HD Try Buying a Harley in the the Far East made in the US .. A new Sportster over there costs more than an Ultra Classic here ..
 

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Aussie Cruizer
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One of the reason I don't own a Harley is because here in Australia the average price of a HD is around $30,000 to $32,000.
If that price was dropped almost down to what is payed in the US, well I might consider one. Even in the US their sales have dropped substantially...
So if they could reduce the price world wide I'm sure that their sales would rise...
 

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SUPER MODERATOR
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Harley Davidson will survive due to the 'loyalty' of their 'Fraternal' structure:smile_big:

All motorcycles except for the heavily discounted 'starter' bikes are becoming too expensive for lots of people that have normally purchased them as a 'TOY' for FUN more than transportation:surprise:

Every consumer product has risen in price at a disproportional rate to real wages over the last 20-30 years as we have been in an 'hourly wage/ salary' recession/ depression for a very long time. Real buying power has fallen for the average person.:sad:

$30 to $40,000+- for a Motorcycle is total stupidity but lot's will pay that as long as they get the enticing very low interest rates with little to nothing down and finance for 84 months, to seem affordable to them:surprise:

My Son Ron, just bought a $75,000, 2020, Ford RAPTOR and my Grandson has a $70,000, 2019. My younger Son Aaron just a month ago bought a new 2019 Ford F250 Super duty, with the BIG Diesel and lots of extras and spent $71,000 and change and my 2016 F150 was over $50,000--:surprise: I bring this up only to show that prices are completely out of sight today (My new F100 Ford in 1969 was $3,600) and this is why most Folks are buying used vehicles at heavily discounted prices, so it skews the published sales charts completely! There are probably more USED Harley's bought and sold yearly than total new bike sales worldwide, so the 'sport/ hobby,' is still very alive and well:grin:

There will be more Harley's on the road today making their way to the annual Sturgis Rally than seems possible for a dying industry. GOOGLE the 'Sturgis Rally' and see the scope of this historical event:smile_big:

"Don't worry---be happy," or so sings the rubber Bass/ Catfish:wink2:

Sam:nerd:
 

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Nightfly
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Got an email this morning from my local Harley dealer expounding the greatness of the soon to be released - sometime this fall - Livewire motorcycle. With a base price that begins at $29,799 and goes up from there, depending on options, is just nuts.

If Harley is counting on this bike to help them out of their slump, I think they are in for a huge awakening. I just don't see it. It's a good looking bike that comes with all the downside of an electric powered vehicle. If it sold for $19,799 it would be much more attractive but I don't believe that will ever happen.

Weight wise the bike is 550 pounds with the battery coming in at 250 pounds. That's a heavy damn battery. It's also one of the biggest batteries offered on any bike, but because of weight, size doesn't make it the quicker.

Interested owners will need a nice size cache in their bank to buy one of these quiet bikes, and will it provide the cachet they are looking for? Time will tell...
 

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A local shop here, has a nice Ebike for $5,000.00. As a commuter it is great. The riding position is good. I should take some notes next time I am there. Local guy has been riding one for a while. He just bought another one for summer use, and will use the old one in the winter. What we do have here in large numbers, is electric bicycles. Some all electric, most pedal assist.

UK
 

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Moderator - Loves All Motorcycles
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So the overall problem is that while there are more motorcycle riders and more motorcycle owners than ever, they aren't buying new bikes. So Harley owns 50% of a shrinking pie.

Harley's new direction relies heavily on new bikes and International sales to get out of the slump they're in. So they're building small displacement, cheaper bikes for other markets. IIRC, the Chinese bike they're releasing is basically a 300cc street fighter. Since HD's brand image is vastly different in other countries, they can offer something like a scooter and it wouldn't be taken as a joke. Unfortunately, this business decision means if they fail internationally, we'll feel it here at home.

They could release those low displacement machines over here, but I take it they're concerned with maintaining their brand image. It's a tricky place to be in. A cheap bike sounds great on paper, but with the image HD built for itself the cheap bike may not sell. I think of it a lot like Mercedes-Benz. They produce cheap cars, but they don't really sell them in America. They have a ritsy brand image and want to keep it. And of course, the cheap cars they do bring over don't sell well.
 
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Nightfly
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
A local shop here, has a nice Ebike for $5,000.00. As a commuter it is great. The riding position is good. I should take some notes next time I am there. Local guy has been riding one for a while. He just bought another one for summer use, and will use the old one in the winter. What we do have here in large numbers, is electric bicycles. Some all electric, most pedal assist.

UK
I think the electric bicycle, with pedals, is really cool, I'd love to have one. Haven't seen one in these parts in years.
 

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Every consumer product has risen in price at a disproportional rate to real wages over the last 20-30 years as we have been in an 'hourly wage/ salary' recession/ depression for a very long time. Real buying power has fallen for the average person.:
"Wage buying power" has been replaced with "Credit buying power"...Import 10's of millions of illegal/legal "immigrants" to drive wages down while increasing demand for everything...then replace/boost those depressed wages with "credit"..net result...a booming economy built upon a MASSIVE pile of debt...the few people at the top become INSANELY RICH while everyone else becomes a debt slave.

I live in an average town in an average state...not a tourist destination..the opposite...state is getting old fast and the young people leave at first opportunity...a house, literally the size/shape of a big garage...~920sqft...in a rough part of town is selling for ~$160,000 in area with a median household income of ~$24,000...complete insanity...that's what "2% down" and slack regulation gets us. I live in the "good part of town"...a shack is $200,000...all new construction is ~$350,000 plus...High school just spent a MILLION DOLLARS installing state-of-the-art LED lighting for the football field...1 in 12 kids in our High school, in the "rich part of town", gets free lunch and Medicaid...in the "poor part of town, ~20% of the students don't speak English...what a messed up world....ONE HUGE RESET is coming.
 

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Harley is scapegoating Trump...the truth is, you CANNOT build a bike in the USA, ship it to Asia and sell it at a profit...no way!

Harley is abandoning what has worked for decades...I love the traditional "Harley Style"...these new bikes are just ugly to me...pay a premium for them...LOL...no way..if they lowered the prices to match the Japanese bikes, I'd still buy the Japanese bikes...because the Japanese sell you a smokin bike...Harley sells you a dog, then tries to sell you "upgrades" to turn the bike into what you get off the showroom floor from the Japanese.

I wish Harley luck, I'm not a bagger guy so all that's left for me are the softails...and man have those become cheap looking with a fat price tag.

PS. Example of a showroom dog....2017 Harley Low Rider...700lbs of lead towing an anchor....the 2017 Harley Low Rider S...WOW! $3000 more for Screaming Eagle EVERYTHING!..Torque, Torque, Torque...insanely fun and FAST!

 

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Nightfly
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No company would abandon what has been their iconic brand since very close to the beginning of the company long ago. One of the problems is the Harley rider that everyone associates with the iconic bike, is getting old, too old to ride as they once did. So sales have been slowly dropping off for a number of years. And this trend will continue as the iconic rider associated with Harley continue to leave the planet for the greater unknown. So Harley is being forced to change for numerous reasons.

Also there is the problem that new riders haven't the bank to afford a new Harley, which I agree have become too expensive for many to afford. Also the younger rider has many more interest than just riding a motorcycle. Those who still buy a Harley understand that riding a motorcycle is much more than buying what is considered the fastest and quickest bike in the world. Yep, there are those who base their buying on just those 2 qualities but they will never enjoy the nuances nor the reason people ride and buy Harley.

I'm not a bagger or land yacht rider either, I prefer the Sportster because it is lighter and more easily ridden in a quick yet sure-footed manner and still has the sound and feel that I prefer. I have built my bike to be a higher RPM bike and not rely on the low end torque that most people love about the Harley.

There was time when Harley had the reputation of always breaking down, leaking oil and whatnot. All have since been improved greatly and the fit and finish is one of the best out there...

Keep in mind that most of the people on this subreddit who disparage Harley's will jizz all over themselves at the sight of some generic 70's cafe racer and will go on and on about how awesome that scrambler look is. You would be wise to ignore the opinions of these people as a whole and just get the bike that makes you happy. Slamming another manufacturer's product will do nothing for you, just buy what you like and sthu.
 

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My Son Ron, just bought a $75,000, 2020, Ford RAPTOR and my Grandson has a $70,000, 2019. My younger Son Aaron just a month ago bought a new 2019 Ford F250 Super duty, with the BIG Diesel and lots of extras and spent $71,000 and change and my 2016 F150 was over $50,000--:surprise: I bring this up only to show that prices are completely out of sight today (My new F100 Ford in 1969 was $3,600) and this is why most Folks are buying used vehicles at heavily discounted prices, so it skews the published sales charts completely! There are probably more USED Harley's bought and sold yearly than total new bike sales worldwide, so the 'sport/ hobby,' is still very alive and well:grin:
Just checked Craigslist, 374 used "Harley" listings..and that's a pretty consistent number...month after month.

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"just bought a $75,000, 2020, Ford RAPTOR..."

Good Golly! Are you a lottery winner? What a colossal waste of money; especially for a young person making "payments"...YIKES!

I have never, in my life, bought a new car.

My used car purchase/price history since becoming a 2 car household:

Car 1: 2005 - $5000 - still driving it today.
Car 2: 2002 - $4500 - still driving it today.

Car 1: 1991 - $2500 - sold for $500 in 2005
Car 2: 1988 - $1800 - sold for $250 in 2002

$12,750 = total amount spent "buying cars" over a 31 year period...$411 per year!

How much did I save with just liability insurance for 31 years? A FORTUNE!

Also, I'm an amateur, self taught, mechanic...never pay for repairs...OCD in nature too...both of my 14+ year old cars look and run like new.

I'm not "retirement age"..but I'm pretty much retired...people ask "how do you do it"...well, I didn't spend ~$75,000 for the two cars sitting in my driveway!

Want to save a fortune on a near new car...buy a salvage vehicle...not something that was smashed...find one that was beat to death with hail stones...purely cosmetic damage..but still knocks 20-30% of the price because of the salvage title.

Almost bought a car off craigslist...dealer tried to rob them on the trade-in, so they put it on Craigslist...~60k miles, a decade old, ~$4800...~$22k when new....great deal but I didn't need it.
 

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I bought my 78 Chev 3/4 ton truck in 1983, paid $2,000.00. Expensed it to zero on the farm, still have it. Got an offer of $400 the other day. Might hold out for $750.
Bought a new sail boat in 78. Paid $28,000. Sold it for $33,000, bought it back for $15,000, sold it for $14,500. Did I lose much?

I did buy the SV1000S new, but it was heavily discounted. Can not count my current Dodge Caravan, or one of the bikes. Larry gave them to me when he died. I will give my bikes to a local bike shop if i still have them when I croak. No wishful thinking from the group, and do not hold your breath. Could be 31 years.

UK
 

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I guess my family and myself just like that 'new car smell,' extrapolated to include Motorcycles:grin:

To quote Oscar Wilde – “Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.”:kiss:

450zuki, what bike do you have and ride?:smile_big:

Sam:nerd:
 

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I guess my family and myself just like that 'new car smell,' extrapolated to include Motorcycles:grin:

To quote Oscar Wilde – “Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.”:kiss:

450zuki, what bike do you have and ride?:smile_big:

Sam:nerd:
To quote 450zuki – “Moderation is a wonderful thing; reduces the requirement of work like nothing other”:kiss:

A Honda crotch, a suzuki dirt, and harley softail...paid ~$4000 less than book for the Harley..crazy deal...seller "motivated"...red flags, faint siren..but it turned out to be a real deal.

PS> I easily didn't spend ~$80,000 on cars in the last 31 years.

Do the math:

$20,000 in 1988
Add $2000 per year for 31 years ($81,000 total out of my pocket)
7% average investment return over 31 years

2019 balance is.....$381,338.57 IN THE BANK...how did I retire so young?....LOL!
 

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Moderator - Loves All Motorcycles
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If you can swing it while still being able to save money, why not? :) Life is too short not to get what you want. I'm only 26 and I've already purchased two new cars. I can never see myself plopping down $70k for a truck, but mad props from me to those who do! First new car was $16.2k and is paid off (it's now my rally car), the other is $17k and will be paid off in a year or so. The other two cars and the one truck in my garage were either stupidly cheap (used) or were free.

The bikes are all $1k or less Craigslist specials. I can't wait for the day I can enjoy the whole "new car smell" thing again, but paying cash and with a motorcycle. :D
 
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American Legion Rider
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If you can swing it while still being able to save money, why not? :) Life is too short not to get what you want. I'm only 26 and I've already purchased two new cars. I can never see myself plopping down $70k for a truck, but mad props from me to those who do! First new car was $16.2k and is paid off (it's now my rally car), the other is $17k and will be paid off in a year or so. The other two cars and the one truck in my garage were either stupidly cheap (used) or were free.

The bikes are all $1k or less Craigslist specials. I can't wait for the day I can enjoy the whole "new car smell" thing again, but paying cash and with a motorcycle. :D
I've never been able to plop down cash for a new bike. But good luck to you getting there, Miss M. I've got about halfway and just couldn't wait any longer.:surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
 

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Swamp Rat Rider
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When can buy a Garage Queen Victory like this for 7,500 .. Don't see a need for spending 30,000+ for a new One with what riding time I have left .. Are plenty of Garage Queen Harley's around too .. Almost 1,000 Mile son the victory Now and Running like New even if put another 5,000 in it to make it about as fast as i ever would think of going plus a little more Shiny Bling will still only be at 50% of the Price of a New One like I would want ..
 

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