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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If this is in the wrong area, I’m sorry. Feel free to move it or tell me where I should be asking instead. I’ve been looking at motorcycles to get as my first and have been generally looking at higher displacement bikes(I know, get a 300) because I do not have the money to buy a bike and then sell it for something better. So I was looking at Supersports but figured a Streetfighter like an older Street Triple,Z800,FZ07,GSXS750 would be more practical with their better ergonomics and all. My main concern with getting something sporty is cornering speed. However I stumbled upon Supermoto’s and have been seeing people claiming they can go just as fast around turns if not faster than a supersport on a supermoto. Is this true for just the low speed turns because they’re so lightweight, or are they just saying supermoto’s are easier to ride fast for them? Mainly I’d just like to get something that corners exceptionally well, don’t care much for doing anything fast. So my question is, how do these styles of bikes compare for cornering speed?(not just 30mph corners, as there are some 50,60,70Mph turns around here so I’d like to know which bike takes it all out and generally how they compare). Again, sorry if this is in the wrong spot, just tell me if it is, thanks!
 

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Most of what you speak of as far as cornering goes is related to skill of the rider. There are some aspects such as tire design and suspension set up but by the most part if you don't know HOW to do it no matter what bike you have you wont do it. I have seen riders on small 125's pass super sport bikes in corners and put them on the same Super-sport and not be able to take the corner because they don't know how to ride that particular bike. Learning a bike, and learning to ride in corners is a very personal thing you just got to get used to the concept of looking where you want instead of were you don't wanna be, and know your bikes capabilities, which takes time and practice.

Side comment, those "30 MPH corner signs" is the maximum safe speed for commercial vehicles, you get a good cage driver in a modern sports style car, they can take you in a corner, don't listen to the malarkey on %'s and speed in corners ride your ride know your capabilities on your bike with what ever you get you will enjoy it better and keep it up right. Don't try to be a front of the pack rider on group rides, if you are with honest riders and you are being honest they will want you to be safe and not ruin the ride with you in a ditch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Most of what you speak of as far as cornering goes is related to skill of the rider. There are some aspects such as tire design and suspension set up but by the most part if you don't know HOW to do it no matter what bike you have you wont do it. I have seen riders on small 125's pass super sport bikes in corners and put them on the same Super-sport and not be able to take the corner because they don't know how to ride that particular bike. Learning a bike, and learning to ride in corners is a very personal thing you just got to get used to the concept of looking where you want instead of were you don't wanna be, and know your bikes capabilities, which takes time and practice.

Side comment, those "30 MPH corner signs" is the maximum safe speed for commercial vehicles, you get a good cage driver in a modern sports style car, they can take you in a corner, don't listen to the malarkey on %'s and speed in corners ride your ride know your capabilities on your bike with what ever you get you will enjoy it better and keep it up right. Don't try to be a front of the pack rider on group rides, if you are with honest riders and you are being honest they will want you to be safe and not ruin the ride with you in a ditch.
Thank you so much, I appreciate the input. Let’s just say the rider has full capability on all three styles of bike, which could take corners fastest?
And I should’ve clarified, the 30mph turns I was talking about were marked at 20mph, so I added, sorry.
 

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Thank you so much, I appreciate the input. Let’s just say the rider has full capability on all three styles of bike, which could take corners fastest?
Yep, All of this I am assuming you are speaking of street riding and not a track. Street riding you can only ride as fast as your skill will allow you in the corners. Anyone can go fast in a straight line, you will find most lack the skills for taking corners at high speeds due to there being to many variables.

Watch this:
 

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If this is in the wrong area, I’m sorry. Feel free to move it or tell me where I should be asking instead. I’ve been looking at motorcycles to get as my first and have been generally looking at higher displacement bikes(I know, get a 300) because I do not have the money to buy a bike and then sell it for something better. So I was looking at Supersports but figured a Streetfighter like an older Street Triple,Z800,FZ07,GSXS750 would be more practical with their better ergonomics and all. My main concern with getting something sporty is cornering speed. However I stumbled upon Supermoto’s and have been seeing people claiming they can go just as fast around turns if not faster than a supersport on a supermoto. Is this true for just the low speed turns because they’re so lightweight, or are they just saying supermoto’s are easier to ride fast for them? Mainly I’d just like to get something that corners exceptionally well, don’t care much for doing anything fast. So my question is, how do these styles of bikes compare for cornering speed?(not just 30mph corners, as there are some 50,60,70Mph turns around here so I’d like to know which bike takes it all out and generally how they compare). Again, sorry if this is in the wrong spot, just tell me if it is, thanks!
@CornerCarver99 welcome to the forum. You have a good question, although I think it is a bit misplaced. No disrespect intended, as I explain. First I make an assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong. You state this will be your first bike, so I doubt you have very much riding experience or skills as yet. Based on that assumption, any of these style bikes will offer lots of cornering capability as you grow into them. We hear the buy big because I cannot buy twice excuse often from new riders. The reality is a lot of new riders that buy to much bike very seldom grow into the bike without tragedy. I know you have heard this before from more experienced riders and you are resisting it. My suggestion is to actually listen to the advice and take heed.

So why do I say this? If you have no real experience and skills riding you have no realization what the top cornering speed is for any given corner, on any given bike, by any given rider. You most likely are visualizing the speed of the corner based on driving a car, watching videos and listening to rider friends. For example your statement, "And I should’ve clarified, the 30mph turns I was talking about were marked at 20mph". Any bike, even scooters, can take a 20 mph marked corner at 30 mph safely. Corner markers are based on the lowest denominator cage on a given dry surface condition.

Now we don't know the corners you have in your area that you reference, but I can reference a few corners I have in my area. On one of our better roads to enjoy some speed and corning, the road is marked for 45 mph with fast sweepers, and in those we typically will hit 140-160 mph in the straight. In the tighter corners we will very often take them from 65-90 mph. Another stretch of this road is marked 35 mph with corner warning markers at 25 mph and many of those corners we will exceed 60-70 mph. We have riders in ages from their mid-30 up to one rider who is 73! We run on sportbikes and naked bikes from 600cc up to 1000cc liter bikes and even a 1400 cc hyperbike. Our riders range from those with lots of fast speed street experience, to those who also run the track and those with many training classes under their belt. By the way, none of us starting riding on these fast bikes.

When new riders join us on this road they are forced by their own experience and skill level to fall back and watch, or risk crashing. We run this road at about 80% of what we could do if it were a track and we always run the road to check its condition at slower speeds before running it at 80%. The past two years we have refused to allow new riders to join us because of the risk they take trying to keep up and the boredom for us if we slow to their skill level pace. For new riders to our group we will take them to other local roads to evaluate their skill level, before they are permitted to join us on this challenging road. They of course can do this road on their own, I don't control their desires, we just don't want them in our group. We are about riding safer faster, and not getting hurt trying to keep up.

What I'm saying is, any of the type of bikes you mention are far more capable of high corning speeds exceeding you skill level. So does it make a big difference which one you choose? Why not choose a bike that is plenty capable to learn on, cost little money, a bike you can grow into and learn on and then later trade it off and buy a bigger bike that you can also grow into. Very few riders, buy just one bike in their lifetime. Spend less on your bike and more on yourself. That is buy a reasonable powered bike 300cc-600cc, take the parking lot class and then invest money in an advanced class and do some track days. It makes no difference if the bike style is Supermoto, Streetfighter or Supersport. Pick the one you feel most comfortable to ride and get some miles under your belt.

Now finally I get to answer your question, which style is better for cornering speed? Well, the answer depends on the corner!!

In addition......if the corner is other than pavement, like dirt, mud or ice, a dirt bike or Supermoto would probably be best. If it is pavement, well maybe any of them, but have you ever seen a Supermoto win a MotoGP or Senior IOMTT race? And, a Streetfighter is basically just a sportbike without fairings, like a naked bike, but more a rat bike. Just sayin, everyone has an opinion, this is mine. I hope you take it in the spirit I offer it, I love meeting and riding with new riders and wish you the best starting and continuing your riding experience. It's about having fun, being safe and enjoying the part you come to like the best. I think for you that will be getting some speed, nothing wrong with that. I hope you grow into it safely. BTW: I've been riding for over 60 years, I'm still learning, I'm still taking classes. When I was young I wouldn't listen and crashed a lot, now I'm older, listen a lot and crash a lot less even though I am mush faster now than when I was young. Don't be a me when I was young!!
 

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Eagle Six,

If I was to ride with you guys, I would have to leave an hour-hour and a half before you guys and meet you at the end. BUT, I would probably have just as much fun at my level. :)
 

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Eagle Six,

If I was to ride with you guys, I would have to leave an hour-hour and a half before you guys and meet you at the end. BUT, I would probably have just as much fun at my level. :)
I bet you would, it's a pretty ride and sometimes I ride it alone and slow just to see more of the beauty. When we run it for sport, we see about 20 foot on either side of the road and that's just a flash! It's a really slick road that is better than the tracks I have ridden, but being the country street road it has a lot of blind corners and rises, with wildlife and open range cattle making it dicey, therefore I like to calm it down to about 75-80%. They close it during the winter, so it will be April before we get to ride it again.
 

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Wildlife is bad enough but free range cattle will get you killed for sure. Unlike the wildlife, they have been around humans and you can bet your bottom dollar they'll do just the opposite of what you expect. Good luck but don't go faster than your guardian angel can fly. (y) (y) (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
@CornerCarver99 welcome to the forum. You have a good question, although I think it is a bit misplaced. No disrespect intended, as I explain. First I make an assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong. You state this will be your first bike, so I doubt you have very much riding experience or skills as yet.
Very few riders, buy just one bike in their lifetime. Spend less on your bike and more on yourself. That is buy a reasonable powered bike 300cc-600cc, take the parking lot class and then invest money in an advanced class and do some track days. It makes no difference if the bike style is Supermoto, Streetfighter or Supersport. Pick the one you feel most comfortable to ride and get some miles under your belt.

Now finally I get to answer your question, which style is better for cornering speed? Well, the answer depends on the corner!!

In addition......if the corner is other than pavement, like dirt, mud or ice, a dirt bike or Supermoto would probably be best. If it is pavement, well maybe any of them, but have you ever seen a Supermoto win a MotoGP or Senior IOMTT race?
In terms of experience I have a bit over 120 hours of 110cc pitbike experience with a mix of street and grass/dirt. So any 300cc to 600cc bike is good you think? What limit do you think I should set for myself power wise? I’ll most likely be going Streetfighter or Supermoto btw.
And regarding “have you ever seen a Supermoto win a MotoGP or Senior IOMTT race?” Wouldn’t this largely be due to aerodynamics and power? As my understanding goes, for cornering, it’s all about the max lean angle you can achieve. So a SM with Street slicks should be able to get relatively close to a Streetfighter with Street slicks in the corners until the SM’s suspension isn’t good enough for grip anymore?
 

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It is more important you learn about your cornering skills than a bikes. None of the worlds best riders, started the way you plan to do. They all learned first on smaller bikes. Finances are secondary, and a poor excuse for just wanting a fast bike to start with.

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(I know, get a 300) because I do not have the money to buy a bike and then sell it for something better.
A smaller displacement allows for far more "wiggle room" when you mess up... and you will... a lot! My first bike was a Ninja 300 and, while slow compared to other bikes, it was still faster than 87.3% of the cars on the road. It allowed me to learn my (and it's) limits without killing myself, although there may have been more than one close call.

A year later, I was able to sell it for very close to what I paid for it. I was able to take that $$$ and, being patient, found a mint condition F4i for less than I had paid for the 300. Craigslist + patience = some really sweet deals!

Moving from the 300 to the 600 was fun but also terrifying. In the lower rpm range, it behaved just like the 300. Above 7-8k? A whole different animal and one that doesn't take kindly to jerky throttle inputs, panic braking, or missed shifts.

I would strongly encourage you to go with a 3-400, or if you must, a 650. Putting in the "slow" work and practicing the basics will make you much better and more confident when you decide to move up...
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A smaller displacement allows for far more "wiggle room" when you mess up... and you will... a lot! I would strongly encourage you to go with a 3-400, or if you must, a 650. Putting in the "slow" work and practicing the basics will make you much better and more confident when you decide to move up...
I was thinking 650, I guess my question is, does it really matter the engine size if I’m just testing it through the corners, and not nagging on the throttle constantly? Also yes you can usually sell the 300’s for what you paid for them but you will lose money most often because of tax, title, tags.
 

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I was thinking 650, I guess my question is, does it really matter the engine size if I’m just testing it through the corners, and not nagging on the throttle constantly? Also yes you can usually sell the 300’s for what you paid for them but you will lose money most often because of tax, title, tags.
It does. Each type of engine behaves differently, as does each throttle and brake set up. I believe the lighter bikes are easier and just as fast in the turns because of their weight advantage. Am I faster in a turn on my 600? Probably, but that has more to do with my confidence and better skill level as compared to when I first started.

Cornering is the great equalizer where hp doesn't matter nearly as much as speed and lean angle, both of which are easier to learn on a lighter bike.

As for the money, yeah, you may lose a little but, when added against your safety and increased skill level, I'd take that financial loss over loss of my health or body parts any day!

Nagging the throttle? Never heard that term before but I can tell you that I'm just a bit over 50 and still cannot resist the occasional "max wrist" throttle application. It is addictive. It's probably a very good thing I waited until my "mature" years to start riding... ? :LOL:
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It does. Each type of engine behaves differently, as does each throttle and brake set up. I believe the lighter bikes are easier and just as fast in the turns because of their weight advantage.

Cornering is the great equalizer where hp doesn't matter nearly as much as speed and lean angle, both of which are easier to learn on a lighter bike.
Thanks, cornering being the greatest equalizer is what draws me to good handling bikes so much. Because of lightness, what do you think of a Supermoto for the turns?
 

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If the surface is good smooth dust free pavement, one of the best bikes ever is the Suzuki 750. The problem with copying the GP riders with lots of lean angle for the bike, and lots of the bike angle for the rider, is it is not safe foe street riding. So while many worry about the bike angle of tippy, and how do I look, it is really of no use for the street.

A recent video on this site showed racing on an oval track in Japan. None of the bikes you mentioned were the fastest. On odd ball was faster. Also watch some speedway bikes. They race on a short track with a dirt clay surface. They go slideways, or sideways. They are faster around a corner than street bikes, and most GP bikes.

GP bikes and speedway bikes are the fastest around a corner. Neither is applicable to what you want. More important is to get a good handling bike with not too much power and learn to ride.

The guy in the bike store said to me, when they go riding on the twisty roads, on a bunch of bikes like you mentioned, there is one 75 year old guy they can not keep up with. He rides an old Kawasaki 500 Ninja.

Cornering speed and ability, is about the rider, not the bike. Any decent bike will work.

UK
 

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A new rider needs a smaller, lighter bike to learn on, PERIOD.
Why you ask? This is why:
The larger, heavier bikes like the GSX-R750, and larger still, require the rider to commit to their "line" when entering a corner and also in the middle of the corner.
On a 750 and larger sport bike you can change your line but not nearly as much, easily or often as you can on say a 300 Ninja.
On the smaller bike you can change your line five times in a corner where on the bigger 750 (or whatever) you get one or two chances to make SMALL changes in your line while at speed.
Why is being able to change your line so important?
Because starting out you are going to screw up as you learn the art of fast riding / cornering.
When you screw up on the little Ninja you'll have a good chance of saving it because the bike is pretty forgiving in that you can flick it around (change your line) in ways that will put a big bike on the pavement (or guardrail) right now, in a hurry, and before you can say oops.
And that's just the handling part of it. The other part is trying to operate the throttle correctly, while lost in a corner, trying not to panic with gobs of horsepower just waiting for you to let too much of it loose and down you go.
Starting out with too much bike and slamming the pavement is one way to learn but.... :eek:

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Thanks, cornering being the greatest equalizer is what draws me to good handling bikes so much. Because of lightness, what do you think of a Supermoto for the turns?
No personal experience but there were a few of them ripping around on track day. Given how light they tend to be, coupled with an upright riding position, I'd imagine the learning curve for corner carving would be quicker than for a sport bike but, again, I don't really know...
 
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After a few years many folks go to track days. The first thing they learn compared to the experienced guys, is how slow they are. After many track days, they may decide to race against the more experienced guys. This is when they find out how really really slow they are. They also learn that they should have worked on riding skills on a smaller bike. They did not learn much on the larger faster bike, because the bike was too much for their ability. So they never really learned much. I could have interviewed the kid with the Ducati after he demonstrated the above, but he was in no condition to talk after crashing, and putting others in danger. I had already reported him as a crash waiting to happen. It did.

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After a few years many folks go to track days. The first thing they learn compared to the experienced guys, is how slow they are. After many track days, they may decide to race against the more experienced guys. This is when they find out how really really slow they are. They also learn that they should have worked on riding skills on a smaller bike. They did not learn much on the larger faster bike, because the bike was too much for their ability. So they never really learned much.

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There you go, @Unkle Krusty said it all.....

Well you certainly have received a lot of opinions. Feel the trend, lighter, smaller, cheaper, then learn before stepping up! How about a Suzuki DR-Z400SM to start. You can grow into this bike and learn for yourself what others are preaching to you about. When you are ready, you could step up to a Ducati Hypermotard or KTM Duke.
 
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