[bets777]

do you mean by turning the magneto over by hand? I took some pictures of it and made a video.

 

[bets777]

Is it possible to upload a video on here?

 

[WintrSol]

You can try turning it by hand, but I would put a socket wrench on the nut that holds it; then engine should turn and not loosen the nut, but if the nut loosens, the engine is binding.

 

[bets777]

I will see if I can get some pictures with this reply. If it works you will see the starter, the idler gears and the larger gear, perhaps its a starter clutch gear. When you hit the starter that larger gear spins but everything else in front of it dose not. I assume that it should.

 

[WintrSol]

I'm sorry but I can't see the images - in only says 'Attached Images' for me. Don't know why, but it started doing this sometimes yesterday. Do you have an image account, like Photobucket, that you can link to?

 

[WintrSol]

OK, found my image problem. Assuming nothing was done to the starter motor, and you can turn the engine with a wrench or deep-well socket on that nut, the Sprag mechanism may have failed for some reason.

Did the starter work when you got the bike? I ask, because the starter motor could have had the brushes replaced. If not installed correctly, the starter motor can turn backwards, so the Sprag mechanism will just spin. When you operate it, does the large gear behind the flywheel turn CW or CCW? Hint: it should be CCW.

 

[bets777]

Yes starter worked when I got it. I showed the video to a dealership service mechanic. He said the starter clutch is bad and needs to be replaced from watching the video. Says this happens after time. Looks like there are rollers inside there, I have not taken it apart yet, and if they wear out and the gear just spins. Found a used one for under $50, new is over $200 at the dealer.

Yes I believe I can turn the engine over with a socket on the nut. The starter was never touched besides removing it. What is a Sprag mechanism. Is that in the starter clutch? It does turn counterclockwise. I just watched the video again to check.

 

[WintrSol]

A Sprag clutch is a system of rollers that are pressed against the mating surface by small springs that have metal caps to prevent wear. The rollers are on ramps that force them against the mating surface when turned in one direction only, locking the Sprag clutch and turning the engine. When the engine turns faster than the Sprag clutch, the rollers go back up the ramps and rotate freely, with only slight pressure from the springs. You can find diagrams with a search for 'sprag clutch'. How they fail depends on how well made, and from what materials, but the result is the same, only the type of damage done differs.

 

[bets777]

So the mechanic was right then right? Looking at pictures of the starter clutch on ebay I can see small rollers.

 

[WintrSol]

Only one way to find out - remove the flywheel and see if/how the Sprag clutch is working. Take it off, and see why not.

 

[bets777]

I need to get a flywheel puller and this special tool a rotor holder tool. I tried to hold the rotor by sticking something in the holes. I could not get that nut off even with a pipe on the ratchet. I was afraid something was going to break. I assume this is a normal direction turning nut.

 

[WintrSol]

First thought is a strap wrench on the flywheel, and an impact wrench. If you don't have air tools, they do make impact wrenches that are powered by a car battery; they don't work as well as air powered, but do work (eventually). Other ways to keep the crankshaft from turning is to put a bit of soft metal between the primary gear and the gear on the clutch, putting the transmission in gear and tying the rear brake. You may not need a gear puller, as the flywheel is kept from turning by a Woodruff key; it could also be a taper fit, making it hard to separate without a puller, though.

 

[bets777]

What kind of soft metal can i use? You are talking about the starter clutch gear and the gear ahead of that correct? I will try that on Monday.

 

[WintrSol]

What kind of soft metal can i use? You are talking about the starter clutch gear and the gear ahead of that correct? I will try that on Monday.

No, those gears are too weak. I'm talking about the other side, where the crankshaft drives the main clutch; soft brass or thick copper between those gears will jam them, and do little damage, as the copper or brass will deform before the steel will chip. Putting the transmission in gear and locking the rear break spreads the load over more steel gears, but that way is steel to steel, and it is possible to cause chipping when using an impact tool. If, however, you can get it loose with a long pipe on your socket wrench, there is no impact, just pressure.

 

[bets777]

I got the nut off without a rotor holder. I turned the starter clutch gear after I removed the nut and it seemed to be working differently, it would not slip. So I gave the starter a test without starting the engine and it works now. It would not be a good idea to put it back together for I would not know when it could break down again. But how do you remove that without the specific flywheel remover for those.

 

[WintrSol]

It is possible the rollers have enough wear in the channel around them to allow them to move around, sometimes ending up in the correct orientation. Since it has failed before, it will fail again - probably when you're 100 miles from home, without a good hill for a rolling start.

Looking through the various parts diagrams here: 2005 Suzuki QuadSport (LT-Z250) OEM Parts, PartsOutlaw.com, the crankshaft drawing does show the flywheel fits on a taper, so, once the nut is free, just grabbing it and giving a good yank could work. Heating the flywheel at the center with a hot air gun could help free it up, too. If you try a (non-metallic) pry bar, you have to use two, one on each side, and choose your fulcrum point carefully, at strong points in the casting, so as not to crack the aluminum. For me, this would be a last resort. The threads at the base of the flywheel are probably for the special puller, which a good shop may have. Perhaps you could trailer it to a shop, pay to have them pull the flywheel, then do the rest yourself - some shops will do this, if you ask nicely.

 

[bets777]

I will try to pull it off by hand. My next resort will be to either borrow a puller from a cycle shop or buy one on ebay.

 

[bets777]

it turns out it was the stater clutch gear. It works good now

 

[McBikey]

Hi all,New on here,I bought an accident damaged 2 year old bike,the starter doesn't even Attempt to turn fixed on bike(with button or direct power from battery charger) but when removed and connected to battery charger it works fine,the bike bump starts and runs no problem(no kick start on it)what could be the problem here,any suggestions?cheers

 

[shwhit62]

Hi all,New on here,I bought an accident damaged 2 year old bike,the starter doesn't even Attempt to turn fixed on bike(with button or direct power from battery charger) but when removed and connected to battery charger it works fine,the bike bump starts and runs no problem(no kick start on it)what could be the problem here,any suggestions?cheers

What type of bike? Some bikes like the Rebel 250 have a chain that connects the starter to the engine. If it's broke, won't start.

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