[porange]

Most often when I read articles about motorcycle accidents here in Cincy, it's a cruiser. It's a bar hopping, harley riding, "cruise mentality" kinda guy. He got drunk and rode home, but didn't quite make it.

I don't think sportbike riders are more reckless across the board, just reckless in different ways.

 

[LWRider]

In Fl I pay 1800 for 2 Hyundai's and 560 for my phantom and a 150cc scooter. Higher than I paid in NY.

Wow. Sound slike a lot. I don't know how old you are (I am 54, no accidents or tickets, wife has had no accidents since we were married anyway [14 years] and one ticket [speeding] that I recall)), but here's what I am paying in Florida (I assume you quoted 6moth coverage so I will too):

2006 Honda Element
1989 Mitsubishi Montero 4wd
1986 Suzuki Savage (650cc)
1968 Honda CB 350 (325cc)
Comp on all

$665 per 6 month

 

[markk53]

I just did my msf class last weekend they said 46% of deathes is because people cant handle curvs

And it will happen regardless. When I started riding there were no sportbikes Everything was just "a motorcycle". Riders were killed riding the current "sportbikes" aka Sportsters, BSAs, Triumphs, and in the "cheap seats" the Honda 305 Scrambler and Hawk. Those were the hot bikes and those are what the riders were thrashing. Later on it was the Z1 and H1 Kaws, then the V65 Magna - a cruiser! - and now the sportbikes after the factories started segmenting the market into styles. Oddly enough when a ban on big sportbikes was attempted by Senator John Danforth the truth came out. The big sportbikes had safer riders than the smaller ones, the riders were usually older, more mature, and had serious money tied up in the bikes. Seems age has more to do with it than the actual motorcycle.

Face it, many riders ride whatever is quickest and fastest and the younger the rider the more likely it is. If sportbikes were outlawed tomorrow you'd have these same people riding whatever else was there. They'd be on some cruiser scraping everything in sight and crashing out just the same.

Of course there is the increase in older rider deaths and those are probably on cruisers. Again it is due to lack of riding skill, much the same as the squids. A corner doesn't change just because you're on a certain type of bike - too fast in is too fast in, you're gonna crash. The difference is the speed is a bit higher before the sportbike rider biffs it, but it seems both biff it in corners when they screw up.

 

[markk53]

I was not saying that cruisers are reckless in safety, rather that they are more into an enjoyable cruise ride as opposed to knee dragging around highway nine scaring the hell out of cars that don't see them until they rocket by. I assume there may be some loonies on cruisers, but the ones that scream past me always seem to be bullet bikes. As for helmets, everybody has them out here (it's mandatory). Really cuts into the spare kidney supply..... IMO, anybody who rides without a helmet is suicidal.

And you just pointed out the issue with the cruiser/custom riders... some get so absorbed into their "enjoyable cruise" gawking at the scenery that they get into a corner and panic or miss the fact that the rider ahead either slowed/stopped or swerved a bit into their path. That is what bites the cruiser riders right now. And a wreck is a wreck is a wreck as are the injuries sustained or the possible fatalities.

Take the sportbikes away and you'll see those riders on the fastest standards or cruisers available doing the same thing they did before. I've seen it, in 1983 when the Honda V65 Magna came out. Honda's big cruiser/custom, claimed 118 hp. Everyone wanted it because it was the biggest and fastest. Some dealerships had every one they sold crashed and in some cases nearly every rider killed.

We were fortunate, our only V65 crash out we had was, oddly enough, when the rider was kind of cruising along looking at the scenery and was caught with a flat bed truck stopped in front of him. He went off the road at about 25-35 mph and cartwheeled the Magna when it hit the curb. He came out of the whole thing fine. Same couldn't be said of the bike... totally destroyed, not rebuildable at all. The cartwheeling kind of compacted the bike bending up about everything into a nice little ball. We'd never seen anything quite so thorough, yet the rider, who was wearing shorts and had no helmet on, came out with a few bumps and bruises after hitting the grass.

Accidents will happen regardless is all I'm saying. Due to inattention or running the snot out of whatever they're riding, it's gonna happen. Before, there wasn't any certain "tag" to hang on the bike, now there is.

 

[JasonSK]

I'm jealous LW..

845.82 for 6 months, and I only carry two vehicles

2002 Ford Windstar
2005 Yamaha RoadStar Silverado 1700

I carry full coverage on both (bike is mandatory since I owe the bank money on it)

 

[markk53]

IMHO, a person who buys a cruiser will typically have a cruise type mentality. A person who chooses a bullet bike will (sooner or later) want to "see what it can do" and what it can do is go from zero to sixty in four seconds and top out at about 180.

Is that why Harley is selling the heck out of the Screaming Eagle performance stuff and I'm for ever seeing some cruiser rider come blatting by cranking the bike out? They're getting the cruiser mentality...

I hear more bragging and commenting about how it runs from cruiser guys. Like the guys asking why they have a weave or wobble at 85-90 on their cruiser running some car tire or the like. Or why it shakes when they take your hands off the bars - don't hear that one much from sportbike riders, apparently they must not let go. I guess it must be that everyone knows a sportbike is fast, some cruiser guys have to brag about how fast theirs are. So I'm thinking most cruiser riders want to "open her up" too.

As far as any statistics, I'm betting, much like what was found in the early 80s Hurt report, if the accident speeds were documented we'd find the median impact speed is around 25-35 mph. It's just that the high speed crashes have all the flash, flair, and impact for the media. Same when they get high speed car wrecks. It's news and everyone's going to hear about the crash at 120 mph. They don't report on those common crashes at 35 mph, no flash or impact. Pop isn't going to sit on the couch at the 6:00 news telling the kids that flying down the road at 35 mph is dangerous and you can be killed. Just isn't the same.

 

[robow]

I have full coverage on all my vehicles, and pay just over 650 every 6 months.

F150=$445
Marauder=$112
22 ft camper=$103

 

[robow]

Is that why Harley is selling the heck out of the Screaming Eagle performance stuff and I'm for ever seeing some cruiser rider come blatting by cranking the bike out? They're getting the cruiser mentality...

I hear more bragging and commenting about how it runs from cruiser guys. Like the guys asking why they have a weave or wobble at 85-90 on their cruiser running some car tire or the like. Or why it shakes when they take your hands off the bars - don't hear that one much from sportbike riders, apparently they must not let go. I guess it must be that everyone knows a sportbike is fast, some cruiser guys have to brag about how fast theirs are. So I'm thinking most cruiser riders want to "open her up" too.

I have been asked by a few fellow riders how fast my bike goes. The answer I give, It will do the speed limit no problem.

 

[starguard]

WOW.. After looking through this thread at some of the rates you guys are paying for insurance, my jawbone almost hit the floor.

I only pay $200 for my 96 Virago, for the whole year !!!!

 

[LWRider]

We recently switched insurance companies (had State Farm switched to Allstate) because SF homeowner's in this hurricane belt was getting unmanageable (especially with my [lack of] income). SF was set to raise rates again, AS had already raised theirs. Also SF was only providing coverage for the mortgage holders, not half of what it would cost us to replace the home in a total loss. AS provided real replacement cost coverage for a tad less than the old SF rate and reduced our car and bike rates substantially ($11 a month for both bikes, compared to SF rate of $45).

Anyway, what I learned is it pays to shop around; it is a hassle to move everything and compare apples to apples, but we are now saving substantially every month.

SF has become complacent that no one will leave them and every few years threatens to drop homeowners in FL altogether. I got tired of their game and just had to cut expenses (not just insurance).

Cheers,

Mike

 

[KMWilliams]

"90% of all statistics are completely made up."

LOL!

(And it's only 72% that are made up. Get your facts straight.)

Your both wrong, its 52.4%


the .4 gives it more credibility. :thumbsup:



Also, pay around $110/mo to insure 2 cars and one pickup through State Farm. The bike is $100/year through Progressive.

State Farm bike rates are just weird for some reason. I was told they only look at the engine size, not Hp.


BUT, I also have a teenager who will be added to the policy soon. I'm betting those rates will double.

 

[vistavette]

I hear what your saying. And I agree with you for the most part. What I was trying to get at was, that some of those that have a "cruiser" mindset are still a bit dilusional. Whether your going 40mph or 75mph down the highway, why do some people on cruisers feel that they dont need a lid? Just because the bike is not a "rocket" doesn't mean their skull won't shatter when it hits the pavement.

Vistavette..... I respect that you are privy to more of the numbers than I am. I am not in the insurance field so I wouldnt know. But my agent has told me many horror stories of the people with cruiser type bikes. But as I said, its all relative.

Yeah; A lot depends on where you live too as far as MC accidents and attitudes.

As far as gear on bikes goes; here is my personal opinion: A lot of riders where what they think "looks cool" for the HD crowd its a t-shirt/jeans/boots and a nov helmet. For a lot of sport bike riders its full racing gear; not because its safe but because it "looks cool"

 

[vistavette]

IMHO, the real issues here are misconceptions. Uneducated (motorcycle-wise) people & riders assume:
Sportbikes are either dangerous (from a conservative stand point) or must be ridden to the limit on the street at all times(from a typical newbie stand point).
Cruisers are too slow (from a typical "squid" stand point) or can be ridden safely without helmets because it's a "cruiser" (from a wannabe "hell's angel" point of view).

The pavement does not discriminate between a sport bike and a cruiser. Physics doesn't care either. Your brains can easily be splattered if you do something stupid on either one.

The real key is attitude adjustment and rider education. We Americans are blessed with so many things. Unfortunately, a sound licensing system is not one of them. Getting a license is ridiculously easy in some states. Imagine sharing the road with an under-trained motorist (bike or car) much less a drunk one. Add the occasional driver or rider with a bad attitude. Even worse are the unlicensed and/or uninsured drivers and riders that are out there in the thousands. It is a recipe for disaster. And it is playing out slowly as we speak. To blame "sport bikes" is stupid. It is equally stupid to blame motorcycles in general. Motorcycles don't ride themselves down the street. People do. Therefore the responsibility is on the rider and those that share the road with him/her. The HURT report is worth reading.

Good post

 

[Biker Dash]

I was not saying that cruisers are reckless in safety, rather that they are more into an enjoyable cruise ride as opposed to knee dragging around highway nine scaring the hell out of cars that don't see them until they rocket by. I assume there may be some loonies on cruisers, but the ones that scream past me always seem to be bullet bikes.

Yeah... I dont know where your from, but in my experience here in Maine, in Pensacola Florida, and In San Diego California, it was a pretty even mix of sport bikes, cruisers, and standards that would tear past traffic like a raped ape. (and still do here in Maine as well)
On the opposite side of the coin, I have seen an equal mix of safe, responsible riders.

As for helmets, everybody has them out here (it's mandatory). Really cuts into the spare kidney supply..... IMO, anybody who rides without a helmet is suicidal.

You know what they say about opinions... like a certain part of the anatomy, everyone has them, and they all smell like shyte.

 

[bountyhunter]

Is that why Harley is selling the heck out of the Screaming Eagle performance stuff and I'm for ever seeing some cruiser rider come blatting by cranking the bike out? They're getting the cruiser mentality...

Out here, the only "performance" stuff I see on every Harley is the straight pipes that break window panes as they cruise by your house. I don't think people who are obsessed with going really fast buy Harleys or Gold Wings or Viragos or typical cruisers for the obvious reason: they DON'T go that fast. They go fast enough, but any Japanese bullet bike will leave them so fast it will look like the cruiser is chained to a tree.

Like I said: people who buy bikes that can do zero to 60 in four seconds are generally people who want to see them do that. I am not saying I have never seen a Harley passing between freeway traffic at 80 mph, because I have. But the loonies tearing down the side of the mountains dragging their knees through tight corners are always bullet bikes.

 

[bountyhunter]

You know what they say about opinions... like a certain part of the anatomy, everyone has them, and they all smell like shyte.

Yeah, and I also know what every medical professional says when they see a biker with no helmet:

"Hey! There goes another donorcycle...."


Darwin's work is never done.

 

[bountyhunter]

Accidents will happen regardless is all I'm saying. Due to inattention or running the snot out of whatever they're riding, it's gonna happen. Before, there wasn't any certain "tag" to hang on the bike, now there is.

Problem is the "accidents happen" thing avoids the obvious: people who are buying bikes with the max power and handling are doing it for a reason. And as soon as they think they know what they are doing, they start pushing it to the limits. There are unavoidable accidents caused by other drivers, but a large number of bike accidents are either single vehicle (self inflicted) or accidents that happened because a cager did something dumb but the biker's aggressive riding put him into a position with no margin for error. That's the point. You see the bullet bikes tearing around cornering on the edge, pssing traffic with high differential velocity, they are operating in a zone with zero tolerance. A slight mistake on anybody's part is instant wreck. And regadless of what some HD riders do, I still believe people on bullet bikes hot rod more often and they push it too much ESPECIALLY in cornering which seems to be some kind of a macho thing to see how far you can push it without losing it. Sure, some cruisers ride like bozos but the people on bullet bikes seem to enjoy constantly putting themselves on the edge and it's no surprise they get in more accidents.

 

[bountyhunter]

I hear more bragging and commenting about how it runs from cruiser guys. Like the guys asking why they have a weave or wobble at 85-90 on their cruiser running some car tire or the like. Or why it shakes when they take your hands off the bars - don't hear that one much from sportbike riders, apparently they must not let go. I guess it must be that everyone knows a sportbike is fast, some cruiser guys have to brag about how fast theirs are. So I'm thinking most cruiser riders want to "open her up" too.

Maybe, have you ever had a cruiser pass you on the freeway going about 150? me neither, but I have seen bullet bikes do it many times when I used to drive home late at night. It's a real waker upper to be cruising at 85 and have a bike go by doing about 60 faster than you are.

A cruiser going 90 is dangerous, but that's not the biggest risk. Look at the video the OP posted: the big crash maker is shown when the bullet bikes get out in a pack and start racing down winding roads. Cruiser riders are not going to do that because cruisers don't handle worth **** and nobody would buy a cruiser if they want to play Speed Racer. But the newbies on these superbikes think they can because they see the racers do it.

I can't prove the OP statistics but it definitely makes sense and tracks what I see on the road.

 

[bountyhunter]

Wow... look at that. When you normalize death rates against a specific number of bikes registered, the death rates for the superbike crotch rockets are way higher than other types (and cruisers are lowest).

How can that be?

Oh, yeah... because the people who buy bullet bikes are mainly interested in seeing how fast they can go, their average age is lower (so they take more risks), and the bikes have more power so they are much more difficult to control especially among newbies.

Sometimes common sense does prove to be useful in understanding reality.

http://www.cce.csus.edu/conferences/ots/cmss08/docs/Teoh.pdf

 

[markk53]

Maybe, have you ever had a cruiser pass you on the freeway going about 150? me neither, but I have seen bullet bikes do it many times when I used to drive home late at night. It's a real waker upper to be cruising at 85 and have a bike go by doing about 60 faster than you are.

A cruiser going 90 is dangerous, but that's not the biggest risk. Look at the video the OP posted: the big crash maker is shown when the bullet bikes get out in a pack and start racing down winding roads. Cruiser riders are not going to do that because cruisers don't handle worth **** and nobody would buy a cruiser if they want to play Speed Racer. But the newbies on these superbikes think they can because they see the racers do it.

I can't prove the OP statistics but it definitely makes sense and tracks what I see on the road.

But again that situation is the minority. If it wasn't you'd read about it daily in the papers. Where I used to live in eastern Ohio it was more common for some cruiser to run off the road than to have a sportbike (bullet and crotch rocket scream of cluelessness on any party's part) crash at any speed over 70. That's even true with sportbikes, the riders run off the road at lower speeds or, much like cruisers, have other vehicles fail to yield right of way aka turn left in front of them. The failure to yeild is #1 in accidents with bikes.

And I will tell you I've had almost as many Harleys blast by over the speed limit on my way home from Mid Ohio races and the Ashland vintage flat track as I have sportbikes. Yes, cruisers do go to races and support them very well, but some of the cruiser guys get amped up on them too. It doesn't matter too much how fast they blow by, the both blow by.

And again the point: It doesn't matter if you outlawed sportbikes the guys would get some other type of bike. I've seen it since the late 60s. If you haven't either you weren't riding then or you weren't looking. Remember sportbikes weren't a niche until 1983 with the advent of the Interceptor. Before that riders rode whatever. In the 60s the hot bike was that nasty Sportster XLCH, the name indicated some of the intent as well as the C for competition as well as the lack of battery and kick start only.

You just can't blame it on the type of bike. It is and always has been the rider. You're going to have to wipe out a lot of models before you'll wipe out the problems pointed out in any statistics or videos. They'll all have to be tanks with full fairings, bags, and about less than 70 hp to take the enjoyment out for those who like performance... and even then they'd bob them, after all that's how the light weights came about in the U.S. Lighter, faster, the advent of the XLCH said it all - make it lighter and faster than the Brits. It's just that Harley fell by the wayside.