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Say it isn't so Harley!!!!

4K views 50 replies 13 participants last post by  Porky 
#1 ·


你们美国人真傻。
Nǐmen měiguó rén zhēn shǎ.

Sam:)
 
#2 ·
Well hopefully they give it a more Euro/American styling than that bug looking pure breed Chinese styled machine.
 
#3 ·
One of the most hideous, repulsive and offensive pieces of garbage to come from any motorcycle manufacturer ever. The look of a demented insect seems to appeal to a certain segment of the motorcycle community of which I have never been a part, nor will I with this new creepy offering. It may serve a purpose of cheap, not to be confused with inexpensive, transportation to the poor Chinese who are flooded with cheap pieces of **** already. I'm a Harley guy and understand their need to make money for their survival. It's just a shame they have chosen to do so in such a demeaning manner. And leaving the Harley worker with nary any involvement i.e. no jobs because of it's Chinese connection. Sad...
 
#5 ·
Style? To each his own.... I look at a Harley bagger (or a Japanese wannabe) and think, "Come on, guys. It's not 1953 any more". The big Indians are even worse - they look like 1934.

If it does anything to save corporate H-D, I'm all for it - hope the sell a bundle. Just wish they were made anywhere but China.
 
#10 ·
The fact that you guys from the USA hate the machine is probably a good thing. Hasn't HD already stated that it's not going to be sold in the US. The 350 is targeted at asia, where a lot more motorcycles are sold, than are sold in north america. The last numbers I compared were India vs US for 2018. India is a country approximately 1/3 the land mass of the USA. 45 Times more motorcycles were sold in India than in the US in 2018.

I don't need to mention that US motorcycle sales continue to decline.
 
#11 ·
Johnny, do you ever support anything other than Foreign motorcycles? "You guys from the USA"--your IP addresses show you are in the United States--OUI?

China was just named as the worst human rights country in the World and maybe this COLORS the viewpoint of some of us about their products, that and the trade imbalance.

No one that posted on this topic said they HATED the bike??

Motorcycle sales will continue to decline due to this Pandemic and regretfully, it will adversely affect that WONDERFUL Royal Enfield company you so dearly love!

I like the way the bike looks, as it is SURPRISE---almost an exact copy of the little BMW GS 310 adventure bike---made in India.:)

Sam:)
 
#14 ·
Johnny, do you ever support anything other than Foreign motorcycles? "You guys from the USA"--your IP addresses show you are in the United States--OUI?
I do support US Harley, I own a Harley and will buy another, perhaps several in my lifetime. 2nd hand, of course.

I also support their effort to become a global company, which they can only do by offering products that foreign markets want to purchase. If the US motorcycle market is declining, and it has been, for various reasons that have been discussed, then it only makes sense to try to sell bikes where people ARE buying them, which is in asia.

Asian markets have very plainly rejected the big, heavy, high capacity machines that HD are known for here. If one looks at published sales data, (and I focus on India, because it surpassed China as the largest consumer of two wheelers some years ago, AND it's very difficult to find any published information sales data for China), one sees that the majority of HD sales were of their Street 500 and 750, with much much smaller numbers of larger machines. In all, HD sales comprised less than 1/10 of 1% of the 44 million machines that were sold there, for the year I checked. Since Royal Enfield's 350 was simultaneously outselling their 500 at something like 25 to 1, and RE has subsequently withdrawn the 500, it only makes sense that anyone at HD paying attention might conclude that the Indian market prefers something even smaller than a 500 twin.

My point would be that embracing the intelligent, market based moves, that HD is making, is much more supportive of the company, than insisting that they do what they have always been doing. If you look at my posts, you will see that I have made statements in favor of the Street twins, the LiveWire, and the 350, whatever they are going to call it.
I even lauded their little two stroke Hummer, from the 50s, that never sold very well. Supporting HD does not mean insisting on a high cap V-Twin engine. That attitude is exactly what got them into the trouble they are in.
 
#19 ·
I want to say that there wouldn't have been much R&D cost associated with hanging new plastic on an existing chinese bike, which was the original plan. However, in true HD fashion, that changed and they are apparently doing something a bit more elaborate with the engine, probably for a very good engineering reason. If you are going to do R&D, though, doing it in China has got to be cheaper than doing it in the US. Since this is a collaboration with Qiangjiang, I'd assume that Qiangjiang is underwriting a generous proportion of the development and tooling cost.

The Street twins, being based on the V-Rod engine, would likely have had a good amount of the total R&D cost absorbed by that earlier program.

The Livewire, did cost them some big R&D bucks, no argument from me on that one, but in some ways, they leapfrogged Zero and got out front with the one product that is EPA standards proof.

There's also R&D costs associated with developing and advancing the Big Twin engines. Folks who know a lot more about these things than I do are saying that it's unlikely that the big air cooled engines will survive the next change in EPA allowed emissions. The US is currently operating under the equivalent of Euro 3 standards, while Europe and even India are already up to Euro 6 standards. Depending on what happens in November, a substantial change could be coming very soon. This is another thing that a smart motor vehicle company needs to consider.
 
#20 ·
Wel, the thing is Johnny, from what I saw is they, HD, were planning all kinds of stuff. Scooters. Electric bicycles. I saw somewhere the previous CEO was talking there would be over 100 new models from them in the future. Huh?

Hey, I'm all for looking ahead.

But that has never been The Motherships strong suit.

They can't build a sport bike. They can't build a dirt bike. They can't build a golf cart. That will sell enough to turn a profit anyway.

That's just the way they are.

Stick with what they do well. They have made billionaires out of those in the upper levels of management/ownership. There is a following like no other for their product. If they need to scale back, so be it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Wel, the thing is Johnny, from what I saw is they, HD, were planning all kinds of stuff. Scooters. Electric bicycles. I saw somewhere the previous CEO was talking there would be over 100 new models from them in the future. Huh?
Hey, I'm all for looking ahead.
But that has never been The Motherships strong suit.
They can't build a sport bike. They can't build a dirt bike. They can't build a golf cart. That will sell enough to turn a profit anyway.
That's just the way they are.
Stick with what they do well. They have made billionaires out of those in the upper levels of management/ownership. There is a following like no other for their product. If they need to scale back, so be it.
I'm in agreement with you Motogrady but I think there is an intangible that many don't take into consideration. Exclusivity... When a company is building millions or even hundred of thousands of motorcycles there is nothing special about those bikes. Anyone with a few bucks can go to the local Honda dealer and pick up one of their latest cookie cutter bikes. Ferrari manages to maintain their exclusivity and their price point by not selling a hundred thousand of their cars. I think they are around the 10k mark in total sales. Many people are willing to buy something that everyone doesn't own nor can afford to purchase. Honda and the rest of the Japanese manufactures make, for the most part, a quality product, just nothing special about them. And I understand that is not for everyone.

As for Harley sales, the local Harley dealership is doing great. salesmen are busy and say a lot of younger guys are coming in and are very interested and also are buying. I'm sure things are different in other parts of the country but to say Harley is on its way out is just a little too soon to close that door.
 
#34 ·
Fact: H-D sales are declining, and have been for several years. Also, their core market is old guys, who are now either dying or giving up riding (the Tri-Glide has been a big seller the last few years).

Now, the $64,000 question - is it because young guys can't afford an H-D, is it because big ol' baggers don't appeal to younger riders, is it because younger people just aren't into motorcycles, or is it because H-D doesn't have an entry-level bike to get new riders into the brand?

I don't have the answer.... but the dude running H-D is betting the company's future on making the right choice.
 
#36 ·
Now, the $64,000 question - is it because young guys can't afford an H-D, is it because big ol' baggers don't appeal to younger riders, is it because younger people just aren't into motorcycles, or is it because H-D doesn't have an entry-level bike to get new riders into the brand?
Well I think it all boils down to the price to buy and maintain. It was for and that was almost 50 years ago. I had to work my way up to an HD. I really don't think it's changed except for maybe getting worse with even higher cost to purchase one. Also you have to consider that we now have several generations of folks that grew up playing video games and not much physical activity. I doubt there is anything that stimulate those folks(kids).
 
#38 ·
I actually run in two groups. The American Legion group is all old farts like me mostly on HD's but the PGR group is diverse with all ages and just about any bike you can think of.
 
#39 ·
I can just smell the RICE burning in the picture above!!!!!!!!!! YUM YUM, Poke flied Lice, leal good.:) KIDDING! 3 Harley's, 1 Indian and aside from 5 BMW's, 2 Triumph's, 1 KTM, I Zundapp, 1 Puch, 1 Aprillia, 1 Bultaco, 1 CZ, 2 Ducati's, most all of the total of 88 bikes have been JAP's and a mix of Cruisers types but lots of Crotch Rockets and Dualsport/ Enduro's and Adventure bikes!

I have sat at the "Rock Store,' GOOGLE it, and watched every type and brand of bike in the world either ride by or park for those of us to admire!

For pure unadulterated EYE CANDY, nothing can beat the STURGIS rally, in S. Dakota! LIVE CAM it now!

Sam:)
 
#41 ·
Beautiful RED Duck!
If my nearest dealer wasn't 150-200 miles away respectively, I would have a new Multistrada. :)
Moto Guzzi is on my Bucket list but as mentioned above, they are a long ride away for service after the sale.
Sam:)
 
#43 ·
It's always notable how the Harley haters, who claim they are not by the way, always come out of the woodwork and forecast the demise of Harley. I believe in a little time they will turn it around. The new CEO has thankfully ditched plans from the previous CEO and has decided to focus on their core customers. And to push the fact that Harley is the only company that has exclusivity with it's product. There is no exclusivity with a brand that pumps out millions of bikes a year. There are no core customers to any of the Japanese brands, only to the Japanese bikes in general. Most haters will never get it. How exclusive would Ferrari or Lamborghini be if they sold millions of vehicles. I live near two large Harley dealerships and I can tell you from hanging out there at least once a week that they are doing well. The CEO has told their dealerships to focus on selling used bikes because there will be no new models this year. And that is what they are doing.. And BTW - young guys are coming in all the time and the interest from female riders in on the rise...
 
#45 ·
MAGA, buy a new Harley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (y)

Sam:cool:
Not just Harley. There is a ton of American products to buy. I have a book here somewhere on the subject. Long term it will probably save money, instead of buying made in China stuff, that needs replacing. There is an Ampzilla power amp in my shed, and an Advent receiver in the new house. Both made in America, and both still playing. Both about 1970 vintage. My 22 1/2 sail boat made in Arlington WA is viewable from where I sit. It has many years of use still ahead. UK
 
#51 ·
The Rapido, was a nice little 125cc trail bike that a friend of mine bought new in about 1973. It looked the part but it was slow and fragile compared to the other contenders. I had Yamaha 125-175, Zundap 125 and a Hodaka 100 and all would leave it in the dust. I was also racing a 250cc Bultaco Pursang at the time, replaced by a 250 CZ in 1975!

Small Harleys: Hummers and Aermacchis[edit]

Harley-Davidson Hummer
See also: Harley-Davidson Hummer and Harley-Davidson Topper
As part of war reparations, Harley-Davidson acquired the design of a small German motorcycle, the DKW RT 125, which they adapted, manufactured, and sold from 1948 to 1966.[41] Various models were made, including the Hummer from 1955 to 1959, but they are all colloquially referred to as "Hummers" at present.[42] BSA in the United Kingdom took the same design as the foundation of their BSA Bantam.[43]

1971 Aermacchi Harley-Davidson Turismo Veloce
In 1960, Harley-Davidson consolidated the Model 165 and Hummer lines into the Super-10, introduced the Topper scooter,[44] and bought fifty percent of Aermacchi's motorcycle division.[44][45] Importation of Aermacchi's 250 cc horizontal single began the following year.[45][46][47] The bike bore Harley-Davidson badges and was marketed as the Harley-Davidson Sprint.[46][47] The engine of the Sprint was increased to 350 cc in 1969[45][48] and would remain that size until 1974, when the four-stroke Sprint was discontinued.[48]
After the Pacer and Scat models were discontinued at the end of 1965, the Bobcat became the last of Harley-Davidson's American-made two-stroke motorcycles. The Bobcat was manufactured only in the 1966 model year.[49]
Harley-Davidson replaced their American-made lightweight two-stroke motorcycles with the Italian Aermacchi-built two-stroke powered M-65, M-65S, and Rapido. The M-65 had a semi-step-through frame and tank. The M-65S was a M-65 with a larger tank that eliminated the step-through feature. The Rapido was a larger bike with a 125 cc engine.[50] The Aermacchi-built Harley-Davidsons became entirely two-stroke powered when the 250 cc two-stroke SS-250 replaced the four-stroke 350 cc Sprint in 1974.[51]
Harley-Davidson purchased full control of Aermacchi's motorcycle production in 1974 and continued making two-stroke motorcycles there until 1978, when they sold the facility to Cagiva, owned by the Castiglioni family.[4

Sam:)
 
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