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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
so far all the docs I have read, say that you connect the red wire to the positive side and the black wire to the negative side, and the 3 white wires to the stator. The regulator hooks up to the fieldcoil and turns it on when the voltage drops to less than 14.4v.
simple huh. K

if the wires on the stator power a tach, and the tach jumps when the field is excited, then the stator and field are fine, and the only problem must be the reg/rect.

I have burned up a diode that is inline to a headlamp relay that runs from the stator and the reg/rect. This spliced line, allows the stator power to either terminate at the relay, or power something when the field is on. If the diode is supposed to rectify the stator signal, through a circuit in the relay, as in a single phase set, the diode in the relay has to be a grounding diode that inhibits the grounding of the AC current, for it to work.

IF this is the way it works, then when the regulator turns on, the AC power from the stator would travel through the first diode, and past the relay diode, but to where and for what purpose I am wondering...?

I will make a pic and post it.

If you think you might be able to tell me what is going on with this diode buster I have... I would really appreciate it.
View attachment 14714
 

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Still don't have a manual?
Yes, one would expect the red wire from the rectifier to go to the battery positive. One way to verify it is correct is with your meter set to diode test; with the meter + lead connected to any stator input to the rectifier, it should read a forward biased diode to the red and open to the black. Reverse the meter leads and it should show a diode from the black to the stator input, and open to the red.
Without a description from a manual, or a complete schematic, I can't speculate on the function of that extra diode but, since it burned up, it must be connected to the wrong destination, or that destination is faulty. From that drawing, the field coil has power all the time, and the regulator provides a variable current to ground; there is likely a minimum current, so that the tach always gets a signal, because the lights are powered by the stator, even when the battery is charged.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
got manual

In an electrical electronic automotive manual I have(I have the bike manual also) It says that because the the rpms change the output of the stator, the field alone, cannot control the charging voltage. And, the stator alone can't control the voltage either, thats why for the regulator rectifier. I always thought the regulator turned on the field when the voltage dropped, and the stator just charged the battery. It would seem by the diagram I drew, that the stator is not grounded. On the bike diagram I have, the headlamp relay and diode connects the white wire with diode in it to the ground, and this doesn't seem right.

the main section of the bike manual says that the neutral junction (yellow wire from the stator) connects to the relay, but without an inline diode. so if this was grounded, I can see that this might make the stator more controllable, but without a ground, the signal would be raw and uncontrollable? what do you think?
 

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The stator is not grounded, and doesn't need to be. For the wiring you show, there are six diodes in the rectifier, two for each coil output, with one forward from the stator to the red wire, the other forward from the black wire to the stator. When one of the coils goes negative relative to the others, one of the two diodes that that coil is connected to, conducts to ground, while the other coils, which are more positive, conduct through their rectifier diodes to the battery (and all it powers). This cycles through each stator output in turn; sometimes two conduct to ground and one to positive. The regulator controls how strong the magnetic field is, and, therefore, how much current comes from each stator coil. Sounds like your manual is for a different stator; my old Honda has a neutral wire, which is a common point for the three coils in the stator, but the coils are in phase, and connected together as one. In this case, there are only four wires to the rectifier, not five, and four diodes in the rectifier, two for each stator output. Is that a Clymer's manual? Not unusual for Clymer's to be inaccurate, or out of date.

Without an internal schematic of the relay, I can't guess why there is a diode from the stator into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You said one forward from the stator to the red wire, the other forward from the black wire to the stator...
Would the stator have to be grounded for the current to travel through it to the rectifier?

Yamaha service manual and supplement for this model...

I think the diode is the grounding lug for this single coil in the stator, and that this rectifier circuit is a hybrid single phase that contains 3 different single phase rectifiers, or maybe a 2 phase rectiier with a seperate phase for this individual stator line. there are 2 diodes in this stator line, one inline, and one in the relay to ground, would this change the AC to DC?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
circuit diagram for XS1100

this is a how the circuit goes in the yamaha XS11 service manual (E,F,G,H and the specials of each model)

The brown wire feeds the main fuse box, and all the fuses except 1, which is the headlight fuse. the headlight fuse is inline from the main switch to the relay.
There are 3 phases in the stator rectifier, but the neutral junction is also rectified via an inline diode and one in the relay(maybe...!!)
 

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Here is the R/R for my Intruder:


The six diodes on the left are the same as yours; the difference is, you don't have the three SCRs controlled by the I.C., instead, your I.C. drives your field coil. In my bike, any excess current is shorted out, but yours changes the amount current to that needed.

Actually, from an engineering point of view, yours is superior, except for the added complexity of rotating contacts to push the current through the field coil.
 

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There have to be brushes, since the rotor spins with the engine, and the wiring doesn't. At the back of the rotor, there should be two circular brushes, which are wired to the R/R field control.
Does this diagram represent your wiring accurately?
 

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This appears to be how the headlight relay works, except I don't see a separate headlight switch on the previous diagram.

Note that current through the diode from the stator should go to the relay coil, which will apply power from the headlight fuse to the reserve lighting control unit if the engine is running.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the 80 diagram, the 4R1 is an 81, came fully dressed, and although they are similar, I think the wiring is different... anyway it probably will be when I'm finished with it.
I can't seem to figure out what is keeping the regulator from making a charge. The ohmage of the stator is off, but I have never heard of that stopping a stator from making charge. so too. the coil is out of ohmage.
 

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The R/R should control the current through the field by grounding the green wire; it likely controls the actual current by how much current it allows to pass through the transistor used to provide the ground. There should be battery power on the field coil from the key (main) switch when it is in the ON position. If, however, the field coil reads a lot more than about 4 Ohms, it won't provide enough power from the stator to power the lights and charge the battery.

Perhaps your '81 has a headlight switch, as shown on that second schematic, so the light can be on when the engine is not running? In any case, I expect the schematic isn't much different, as most changes usually involve only the safety switches and igniter.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK. I have the repair schematics of all the models, and they are fairly much the same, with exception to the yellow neutral junction terminating in the headlamp relay on the 70's models and the 80's models using a white wire with a diode in it. I can't seem to find the reason that the wire is going into the relay, while the other two wires are just part of a switched light. it is just a pass through switch in the handlebar controls that turns on/off the headlight. I am guessing... that wire delivers a few volts to the reserve unit so the battery isn't taxed by a bad headlamp filament or broken bulb?
 

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If you look closely at the headlamp relay schematic, the current from the diode turns the relay on, which turns the headlamp on if the other switch is not on; that way you can't turn the headlamp off when the engine is running. If your diode blew, it would be the relay installed had the wrong pin-out, or the connector is miswired.

The reserve lighting unit has a way of measuring the current through whichever filament is supposed to light, turning on the warning light when the current drops.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
regulator type

I notice the wiring diagram says regulator 1t4-81960-92-00
and my 81 diagram says 1t4-81960-A0-00
and there are little numbers enscribed on it, says 0.4.2 on mine, I am looking at one on Ebay that says 7.5.221... do you know what they mean?
 

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Sometimes, they denote small changes in the parts used to make them, with little or no change in function; other times, it could be because of changes in things like the field coil making it necessary to change the driver. If, however, the coil impedance and pinout of the regulator is the same, it might work the same. You'll need to find a better source than someone with general electronics experience for the true answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
question my own ideas...

The stator has an unused yellow center tap, or neutral junction, and on some of the former bikes, they used the center tap, with no diode to the headlamp relay. your schematic for the G shows the two white wires that have splices to the tack and relay, but my manual does not show two wires that are spliced, it only shows one white spliced but there are two splices in the same white wire one goes to the tach, the other to the relay.

I really want it to work when I get a new regulator.

So I am considering, sending the centertap to the relay with the diode in it, and removing the white tap to the relay entirely.

I found a book with toyota regulator rectifiers in it, and they use the center tap with diodes that way. there are 2 extra diodes in the rectifier that handle the center tap.

There is one little thing I want to know if you knew anything about...

If the relay has a diode in it that goes to the ground, and there is also an "Inline" diode that comes from the stator, is the power through that line after the diode DC or AC?

I read that a single inline diode is called a diode or rectifier, and a group of diodes are called a bridge rectifier, and that either produce DC from AC.

I seems kind of funky to me, an inline diode that just grounds out through a second diode; which is why I am considering the center tap as a source rather than the coil.

I like

stator coil>>>+diode/-diode to ground with the +diode delivering DC

but

stator coil>>>inline diode>>>>diode to ground with the line delivering DC

kind of confusing!
 

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Any diode, singly or in a bridge, provides pulsed DC.
If you ground a diode from the stator through another diode, that is they are arranged this way: --|>|--*--|>|--, then the current through them will be limited only by the resistance to ground in the stator. It would be very likely than one, or both, diodes would melt, since the stator is capable of providing very large currents.

If, as in the headlamp relay circuit, the diode from the stator just turns the relay coil on, but the relay coil has a protection diode, to suppress any ringing voltage from the coil, it should be arranged so the diodes meet like this: --|>|--*--|<|--, with the coil of the relay connected in parallel to its diode. This way, pulsed DC goes through the coil and, when the stator voltage goes negative, the protection diode would keep the coil from discharging its current back into the stator; this is a very small current, so a protection diode seems unnecessary.

If your relay has a diode arranged so it conducts at the same time as the diode from the stator, it does not match the circuitry shown.

If your system is wired to use the diode as shown in the diagrams above, changing it to use the yellow wire from the stator would have unpredictable results. I, for one, would test with an oscilloscope, to see what kind of voltages appear on the yellow wire when the rotor is spinning, and current is provided to the field coil, with the rectifier connected to a battery large enough that it won't be overcharged during the test. For the stator to function well in the diagrams above, it would be expected to function with each wire out of phase with the others, making for a 3-phase generator system. In this configuration there should be, effectively, 0 Volts at the common wire, if that wire is actually the common point for the stator coils.
 
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