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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Just a word of warning...
I just purchased the CobraUSA Fi2000 PowerPro Tuner (on Amazon from PowerSportSuperStore)
The installation (Following the very simple install instructions) on my 2007 Road King caused a blown ECM per the Tech at Sound Harley.
The products my work but if you get in trouble Cobra's policy is no refunds. Amazon won't step in and PSSS can't do anything per their contract.
I am stuck with a suspect tuner that Cobra won't refund or swap and bills for repairs (Total $972)
Don't risk it. See my story at 3w.consumertools dot net

thx
Greg
 

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I considered one of their units. But before I did I sent an email question about a "what if". It took a few days before I got a reply but they basically said if it doesn't work, tough! I figured that was a good reason to tell them, "kiss off".
 

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What's it supposed to do? Manipulate the ECM to change the fuel mixture?

Just curious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
More info

Thanks for your interest... The bike was running before the install. First start with the tuner installed, it was throwing fuel injector high and low codes and stopped feeding the rear cylinder. The feed problem and one code stayed even after taking the tuner back off. The repair was to replace the ECM... Harley tech said it fried the ECM. After sending all the pieces to Cobra for testing they confirmed the ECM was fried. Since they couldn’t say what happened they said I was SOL. $1000 down the tubes so far.

I also had HD download the stage 1 tuning and still have the suspect tuner in the box (I guess its a door stop now)
 

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Sometimes on the Internet it's hard to understand exactly what's being said. We all use different terms and expressions, and we all have different levels of knowledge and experience. I want to make sure I understand what you're saying and what you were told by others, so I'm going to parse your post and ask a couple of questions. I'm not picking at you; I really want to try to understand what happened with your scoot.

First start with the tuner installed, it was throwing fuel injector high and low codes and stopped feeding the rear cylinder.
-If you happened to write down the codes, post them and maybe I can make a better guess as to what went wrong. What you said sounds like the ECM was recording over- and under-voltage line codes and the rear injector wasn't working right.

The feed problem and one code stayed even after taking the tuner back off.
-Codes don't remain if you clear them. Did you mean the tech cleared all the current and historical codes, and then one code kept re-setting? Just from what I'm reading, that sounds like an injector issue, or an electrical issue.

The repair was to replace the ECM... Harley tech said it fried the ECM.
That could be, but I'd ask the guy how he determined that the ECM was fried.

If he used a DTII to preform the diagnostics he can provide you with a print out of what he did so you can use that in any legal action. If he didn't you'll want to know how he determined that the ECM was toast before you go raising cane all over the Internet. At the bare minimum you'll want to make sure he at least tested by replacing your ECM with a known good one.

After sending all the pieces to Cobra for testing they confirmed the ECM was fried.
You sent the Harley ECM to Cobra? Did they send it back?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
7-7-14

Hey Eye,

Bike was running OK with SE slip-ons and SE air cleaner (No re-tune)(45K miles) but I needed to finish the stage 1 with some tuning so I ordered the Tuner...

Installed tuner... started... it was running but only feeding the front cyl (figured that out later)... and immediately had a solid check engine light... I checked the codes: P0264 - Rear injector high and P0263 - Rear injector low... I cleared the history for both... checked history before starting again and both were gone (No codes)... and on the next start Check engine light was on again and P0263 - Rear injector low came back to the history... This persisted for a few more tests (cleared between starts) (Still running on 1 cyl at this point)

I then removed the tuner - all back to stock... went through the same code / start testing a few times - Check engine light and P0263 persisted...(Still running on 1 cyl at this point) Sent the bike to Harley...

Harley tech did not give me a print out but said he tested by using an ECM he keeps in the shop for testing and it ran good with it. Then he preplaced it with a new ECM ($533 P&L) (Asking Cobra to pay that) Ran good...

While he had it I asked him to download the Stage 1 tuning... bike now runs great. (Not asking Cobra to pay for that)

Per Cobra's request I sent the bad ECM and tuner back for testing by their supplier Total Fuel Systems (TFS)... They verified the ECM was bad on another bike... They did not "find" any defects with the tuner and sent both parts back to me.

THX
 

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The codes you got would generally indicate a bad injector, or a wiring problem from the ECM to that injector. Some issue with the circuit between the ECM and the injector. From the way that you described it my initial guess would be a problem with the connector to the ECM. That could easily have happened when installing the Cobra unit: Bent prong, pin mis-aligned, something like that.

It would be pretty odd for a piggy-back unit like the Cobra to be able to damage an ECM electronically. They just don't provide a lot of feed-back voltage to the ECM. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just that it's not very likely, especially if they sent it back to you and are willing to say it's okay. In any event, here's the part that strikes me as odd:

Harley tech did not give me a print out but said he tested by using an ECM he keeps in the shop for testing and it ran good with it. Then he preplaced it with a new ECM ($533 P&L)
The SOP for something like this is to hook it up to what's called a "DTII," or, "Digital Technician II." This is only available at a Harley dealership and would quickly tell the technician if it was a fault in the ECM or if it could be traced to a wiring problem such as a faulty plug or something. In fact, the DTII will give the technician certain steps to follow that will isolate the particular wire or part of the circuit to check for a problem. (They're pretty amazing tools.) If he had used this tool he certainly could have given you a print out of the problem.

Taking a known good ECM and substituting it for yours IS a valid practice in certain situations, but that will not determine if the problem is an internal ECM issue or if it is a defect with the ECM plug and wiring. It makes no sense to me at all why a dealership technician would not start with the easiest, quickest, and most accurate way to diagnose your problem.


Per Cobra's request I sent the bad ECM and tuner back for testing by their supplier Total Fuel Systems (TFS)... They verified the ECM was bad on another bike... They did not "find" any defects with the tuner and sent both parts back to me.
THX
If they tested it by putting it on another bike then they also cannot say if it is an internal ECM problem or if it is a plug or wiring issue. They don't have the DTII to be able to test the ECM at all.

It's hard to say, man, but I'm thinking you might be the victim of an unscrupulous mechanic more then anything else.
 

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Don't get excited Eye. I've wondered from the beginning if there isn't more going on here that hasn't surfaced. However, I don't trust a business that refuses to stand by their product like Cobra does. That alone speaks volumes. But what isn't being told raises flags too. Would any Harley shop worth anything not do a thorough test?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for your indepth input Eye

In the end there are plenty of un-answered questions and Cobra will most likely win this battle as I run out of steam.

The bottom line is it shouldn't be a battle. Ya know, as a rule I don’t usually raise a stink about things in my life. I very rarely do when I know in my heart that I’m right. So, I’ll keep fighting this one until I get satisfaction or run out of steam.

I can’t prove that their Fi2000 tuner (Or their instructions) fried my ECM and they can’t prove that it didn’t, as is the case with electronic components and electrical circuits fairly often.

What I do know is that once you have purchased something form a company, they hold all the cards and how they play those cards is very telling.

As I connect with others on forums like this one, I am hearing from several folks that Cobra routinely chooses to play their cards in a way that says they don't care much about customer acquisition and retention. I have to look at that and think, that's not a company that deserves my money and I hope to open as many eyes as possible.

I just wanted to buy their product and be happy going down the road. Something happened during that install. How much should I have to prove in order to be a satisfied customer?

Thanks again for your valuable input

G
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Also

Eye,

I realized that I didn't speak to your real points... The tech most likely took a short cut, I support computer users and I'll take those kind of shot gun shortcuts now and then so I get that. Cobra confirmed the ECM was bad and Sound Harley has a better reputation than what I am hearing about Cobra so I believe the results. Unfortunately, the opportunity to nail the problem cause is probably lost.

In the end I am sure that Cobra would find a way to make it my fault and that is the real issue.

Thanks again
G
 

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You know what, I think you should contact Foolish. I'm serious. You are on more than one site with this message. Bad press is bad press. Regardless of fault. I didn't trust them from the get go. However it sounded like they had a good product. It was just too bad they wouldn't stand behind it in my case. Would have been very easy. Fuel Moto with their Dyna-Jet did and I would not hesitate to try another of their products. I'll NEVER try a Cobra. What good did their refusal do? Maybe they will make a few more dollars. Big whoop. They might have crushed Fuel Moto but I doubt it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Foolish?

Thanks Hogcowboy,

It is important that folks get vocal or companies don't need to worry about bad service. They win.

Funny thing... the product isn't even theirs I had to send it back for testing to a company called TFS (Total Fuel Systems in Vegas)

Anyway, what is (or who is) Foolish? How do I contact?

G
 
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