I'm trying to figure out how to match rev downshift. I've just watched some youtube videos but they all seem quite confusing. You:
1. Pull in the clutch and release the throttle
2. (This is where I get confused) Do you change gear then blip the throttle, or blip the throttle then change gear, or can you kinda just mesh the two together and it doesn't matter.
3. Release clutch and get back on the throttle.
Do you have a reason for wanting to match RPM's to speed and gear? Just pull in clutch and down shift and slowly release. Unless you are trying to shift without clutch there really isn't a requirement to match RPMs. Maybe explain what you are after.
Neither do I, downshifting alone will increase your RPM 500-1,000 anyway when go to a lower gear some EFI Models will actually stall when blip throttle making the ECU think you are requiring more fuel when is not needed ..
If you are asking this question you are not yet experienced enough to be messing around trying to use engine braking or other sport type riding techniques. First learn to ride properly, then add in engine braking.
I don't agree with that logic. If you never learn how to do something, doing more of something else isn't going to bring you closer to learning the original thing. Sure there are steps in th process, but riding for another year or two isn't going to make him suddenly good at this technique if he never tries it.
The OP said he is a noob, but didn't say how new. Rev match downshifting isn't exactly an advanced technique. It's barely intermediate.
On a bike barely louder than a sewing machine, there is no "look at me" factor, even pegging the rev limiter. You may be thinking about the folks "brapping" while sitting at stop lights.
Downshifting technique depends somewhat on the bike.
If you ride a performance bike with a high compression ratio like mine (13:1), then you should rev match. If you don't it's like dropping an anchor when you let the clutch out!!
If you ride a cruiser with a low compression engine, it's not so critical. Low compression engines provide less engine braking so slowly releasing the clutch on a downshift is usually good enough to avoid skidding the rear tire or over revving.
I agree that it depends somewhat on the bike. On my Thunderbird SE, I shift UP at at least 3,000 rpm, and the rpm drops quickly to around 2,000 rpm. When decelerating by shifting down, if I shift DOWN at higher rpm than 3,000, the darned MAP sensor tubes can be blown OFF. Then, the yellow engine light comes on, there is a tinny-sounding popping under the seat, and I have to go to about 1800 rpm or so just to keep the fire lit, until I can put the MAP sensor hose back on. I DID use cyanoacrylatye (crazy glue) lightly applied to keep the two MAP tubes on, but if decelerating at too high an rpm, with downshifting, the BOTTOM of the sensor tube will come out of its rubber type sleeve. These tubes should have been secured better and it is more an inconvenience, but the engine does run lean under those conditions, so best to put the tube right back on and not drive the bike far until doing so.
My bike is not a "high performance" bike but if you down shift while going too fast without giving it a little throttle it will bark the rear. A friend of ours loves to ride my bike. He says it is so much lighter than his Goldwing that he can "throw" it around in a curve. He also says he loves the torque it has. Anyway, he downshifted once going a little too fast and it not only barked the tire, it kind of jerked the rear to one side. Could be bad for a noobie to do that.
So, OP, until you get used to your bike try not to downshift at a really high speed. If you are downshifting at a lower speed there shouldn't be a reason to blip the throttle. You will eventually get the feel of your bike and then you will actually feel when to shift. I hope this helps.
No offense V8, but in my opinion these "new technologies" like the slipper clutch, ABS and the dumbest one of all, Auto Traction Control (ATC) are not needed on a motorcycle if the rider knows what the hey they are doing. But alas, you can't stop progress. Personally, I think these high tech "advances" is what is responsible for the high rate of accidents Hawaii is experiencing with sport bike riders lately. It gives them false confidence and they start hotdogging as if they're on the racetrack, but they're not. They are riding on normal highways and they push the bike beyond their ability to handle it... end result, they die.
I call shenanigans on that, unless you can show me that the crashing riders causing the increase were using ABS.
I don't have ABS, but I do have a slipper clutch. Do you? Have you ever rode with one? It's not a magical device that lets you downshift with reckless abandon. It just smooths things out a little, I repeat... a little.
Gee Rob... I could show you but you need to come to my shop and see aisle one in the back... we call it "Crash alley". It's a line of bikes waiting to be stripped and boxed. Currently, there are 10 bikes residing there. Of those 10, 6 are newer sportbikes. 5 of those 6 have abs, 4 have slippers and 2 have ATC. Because these bikes are in my shop, I have talked with the HPD investigating officers as well as the insurance reps. In all 6 cases, itwas determined the rider was at fault due mostly to the fact that they didn't understand the differences in handling a bike fitted with racetrack technology. Read: The bike isn't to blame, the 18 year old rider was.
As for your second paragraph... no, my bikes do not have any of those techs. They are too old. However, being a motorcycle mechanic who works a few miles from the largest Marine Corp base in the pacific ( all 6 bikes came from MCBH), my job requires me to test ride almost every bike that comes thru here. So yes, I've ridden plenty of sportbikes with ABS, slippers and ATC. I agree that the slipper is the least noticeable of the 3. All I'm saying is that an experienced rider doesn't need it. ABS is great on a cage, but it shouldn't be on a bike. And if you need a computer to control your traction, then perhaps you shouldn't be operating that bike on the same highway my loved ones drive on.
PS: Here's a verifiable fact... Shortly after HPD started using the BMW R1150RTP (with ABS) they mandated a 2 week special training course because too many bike officers were losing control and sliding their ride on its' side. The motor officer I spoke with (and I talk to many) said it was because they had to "re-learn" how to brake and control the ride. They were so used to non-ABS and they were having trouble understanding it.
I don't claim to be a leading expert in the field, but after riding for 44 years and being a mechanic for over 30 years (have ridden THOUSANDS of bikes) I like to think I have some knowledge and experience. HPD, Geico, progressive, allstate seem to have faith in me.
I don't even have a clue as to what a slipper clutch is...but I absolutely hate ABS.....on anything....Anti Braking System, otherwise they would call it ALBS
As for the first paragraph, no evidence to the contrary that the crashes didn't fall into the typical scenario of newer riders running wide in the turn because they were either carrying too much speed or thought they were and didn't turn hard enough.
I think you're seeing more crashed bikes with ABS because more sportbikes are coming with it.
FWIW, I don't use ABS on my bike. Never have, and I wish I could flip a switch and disable it on my Audi for when I am driving. I am glad most people driving around have it though. Most people don't take driving serious enough to learn how to brake without it.
Prior to the Beemer, HPD had KZ1000's and before that they used HD.
Interestingly, like 20 years ago HPD also had 3 wheeled Cushmans that they used only in downtown Honolulu and Waikiki. If you watch the original Hawaii 5-0 series with Jack Lord you can often see them and in the opening scene of the same series the camera is mounted on the rear of a HPD HD cruising thru Waikiki with the camera facing rear... you can see a flashing blue light they had on the back of them.
Once upon a time bikes typically had lousy brakes, four speed wide ratio gearboxes and motors with more mass inside.
Einstein told us to move mass requires energy and the greater the mass the greater the energy.
So we clunked down a gear and let out the clutch, then the back wheel momentarily stopped turning. All because of the above.
To fix the problem we pulled in the clutch, blipped the throttle so as to match the speed of the gears, clicked or stomped on the shifter, and eased out the clutch.
Geoff Smith told us a neat rider is a fleet rider.
Blip first then shift.
Fast forward to a Yamaha 250 road race bike. 6 speed, little internal mass and brakes that work. These bikes would stop from 120 mph faster than we had time to do pretty blip between shifts down shifting.
So, we jumped on the binders ( applied the brakes ) pulled in the clutch and went click click through the gears. Counting, 5 4 3 2 big blip ringy dingy into first. Did that to get the rear wheel speed and throttle setting in sinc to exit a corner.
Many of the new sport type bikes do not really need to be blipped between gears, however some old habits die hard for some of old RR guys. I give the Yamaha bigger blips ( more mass, less gears ) than the Suzuki.
On the pavement squeeze and ease the controls, so as to become neat and smooth.
Often you will hear a chirp from the back tyre of a Harley and others as they clunk down a gear.
On braking. If the bike is going straight the front wheel can be locked and the bike will go straight if you have equal pressure on both bars.
With the back wheel locked the bike is more likely to start a swerve.
The front tyre makes a higher pitched sound than the back.
In a corner if you lock the front you will likely fall down very quickly. Locking the back you will fall down but not as fast.
Practice doing both in the dirt.
I haven't heard that name in years. I doubt we're both thinking of the same guy. The Geoff Smith I have in mind was a 3:55 miler and 2 time winner of the Boston Marathon (1984 and 1985). We both attended Providence College.
Is the Smith you had in mind Jeff Smith, the 2 time World Motocross Champion?
Yeah Critter... I guess you can call it the backside. We call it windward. Honolulu and Waikiki are leeward. And yes, in the late 60's Kaneohe was all country... but now we have a big mall, 4 large shopping centers, and every brand of fastfood known to mankind. We have 2 different college campuses and a large police station... It's grown a lot... but it's still beautiful!!!
Got lost somewhere in my posts.
What One Eyed Jack said about all the modern controls on bikes.
I do not like any of them. I loved the non ABS brakes on my SV650 and do not like the ABS brakes on my SV1000.
Learn about wheels locking up from braking, wheel spin and so on from riding in the dirt.
Fastest guy in the rain at the road race track was Stevie Baker. He was a flat track rider. Don`t know who he is, I will give you a clue. The first US world road race champion.
Sorry Jack couldn't remember the proper name. I was stationed at Pearl and was very lucky. The guy I relieved married a local and at the wedding I met her brothers. They took under their wings and I got to go all the places haoles could not go.
Unfortunately we deployed a lot and I did not get to crawl over every inch of the island.
No need apologize Critter... Unfortunately, there are still some places us haoles are not always welcome at. And more unfortunately, these places are among the most scenic on the island.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Motorcycle Forum
946K posts
111.6K members
Since 2004
A forum community discussing all bikes from Harley Davidson to Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Yamaha, and BMW. Come join the discussion about performance modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!