Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Most of these axles I have installed have a round sleeve on one end with a hole through it for a pull bar to be inserted to remove them. They are held fast by a pinch bolt, that clamps the axle in place.
I am installing my axle today, when I stop, ans say to myself, I am going to ask the guys on the forum about this....

The axle has a nut(castle nut, with a cotter pin through the axle threads, to retain it, if it becomes loose) on the end after traveling through a set of washers, spacers and brake brackets and the sleeve burys into the rear frame.
I noticed that If I leave the pinch bolt loose, and then tighten the nut, that immediately run out of treads on the nut for the castle nut to function properly.
I assume using good thinking reason and process of elimination, that there must be something to hold the axle to tighten the nut, which would otherwise, turn the axle when it is tightened.
The pinch bolt can be tightened to hold the axle, while you tighten the nut, but, I am wondering as I conceive the perfect tightening senario, that there must be a proper depth inwhich the sleeve on the end of the shaft which burys itself into the frame;
Is there a rule of thumb? how far should I allow the sleeve to extend inward toward the wheel, beyond the width of the frame?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,640 Posts
Do you have the washer that goes between the caliper and swingarm? The collar that goes between the caliper and bearing in the wheel? The service manual I'm looking at shows no cotter pin in the axle nut, just that it gets 110 lb-ft of torque, which would require preventing the axle from turning with something through the hole in the other end, since the pinch bolt apparently only gets ~13 lb-ft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
torqueandnuts

wow.
the techspark cd repair manual says 7.2 ftlb on the pinch.(forgot the axlenut torque...only about 45)

What I am concerned with is the centering of the axle between the frame swing arms, as this will change the placement of the brake rotor in the caliper, and make one or the other brake wear faster.

lets see.. I will draw a pic...


I know there must be some rule that handles it... a centering tool that spaces it or a proper sequence of events that puts the axle where its supposed to be.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,640 Posts
We're talking about the Yamaha Royal Star 1300, right - the XVZ13TFL? My manual just shows, from the right side: axle, which passes through the swing arm pinch area, a washer, the caliper bracket, a spacer collar, then the wheel and drive assembly, followed by a washer and the axle nut. The nut should draw the shoulder of the axle against the first washer, which is pulled tight to the caliper bracket, which is tight against the collar, then the center of the wheel bearing. Once the axle nut is tight, the pinch bolt is torqued down, to keep the axle from turning.

BTW, the torque number for the pinch bolt was actually for the front axle - the manual doesn't say for the swing arm. But, if it is also an M8 bolt, it should be the same.

Also, if you ARE expected to use a cotter in a castellated axle nut, my CB450 manual says to tighten as near the torque spec as can be done, while leaving room to insert the cotter, just don't go over the torque spec.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
We are talking about the XVZ12TDK 1983 Venture Royale. Not the star, the original first generation Venture. The castle nut won't tighten without the pinch bolt tight. and if you put the axle through the arm until its tight, the castle nut tightens past the cotter pin hole. I just wondered if there is some kind of rule of thumb that I should use, because the drive gears must be well meshed in the drive for them to work right. What I mean is that if I tighten the wheel into the final drive, the castle nut passes the cotter pin hole, making the pin useless.
I have decided to split the difference between tightness and loosness, tighten the pinch bolt and them tighten the castle nut.
I am happy with it, but I wonder if the axle has stretched over the 33 years of service it has put in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I don't have the same bike but it sounds like there is one more washer missing. It should tighten all the parts together and still have the cotter pin hole accessable for a couple of turns to tight. All the parts must be squeezed before the nut hits near torque value and pin hole position.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,640 Posts
OK, I was close, but no cigar. I agree with swifty - you are probably missing a part.

You can't rely on the pinch bolt to keep the axle from turning when tightening the axle nut, that's what the head of the axle is for. The hole in it is for inserting a rod (a large enough Phillip's screwdriver will do) to hold it, while applying torque to the nut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
We are talking about the XVZ12TDK 1983 Venture Royale. Not the star, the original first generation Venture. The castle nut won't tighten without the pinch bolt tight. and if you put the axle through the arm until its tight, the castle nut tightens past the cotter pin hole. I just wondered if there is some kind of rule of thumb that I should use, because the drive gears must be well meshed in the drive for them to work right. What I mean is that if I tighten the wheel into the final drive, the castle nut passes the cotter pin hole, making the pin useless.
I have decided to split the difference between tightness and loosness, tighten the pinch bolt and them tighten the castle nut.
I am happy with it, but I wonder if the axle has stretched over the 33 years of service it has put in.
Yahmyxs - I owned a 83' Venture for 19 years. Below is a close up of your rear wheel with axle from page 262 of the 83-85 XVZ12 Yamaha service manual. The torque spec for the axle nut is 110 ft lb, I know that by heart, and you want to get as close to the spec as you can on that axle nut. Look at the drawing closely and see if you might be missing a washer or something else in your re-assembly. - Good Luck.

Mike

Oh, just realized that the link swifty2015 posted is the same info, anyway good luck. I have the manual in .pdf. pm me if you want it.

xvz rear wheel.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Its all in there.

now back to my original question.

all bikes have this floating rear axle held by a pinch bolt. and a nut. The Yamaha touring bikes have a shaft and final drive on the wheel. The shaft has a sleeve on one end that goes through the frame and is held by a pinch bolt...This sleeve hole, goes all the way through the frame, and the axle can ride on the washers, spacers and brackets between the sleeve and the wheel.

The position of the shaft sleeve, in the hole, changes the location of the castle nut on the end of the shaft that tightens the entire assembly.
Because the final drive is mounted to the swing frame, the wheel must mesh with the drive gears, so the wheel must be held to the left.

Is there a rule or guide as to the position of the shaft in the sleeve hole, other than the castle nut itself?(don't really want to cut off duh dong here!) I was kind of happy with my CB750 when I figured this out the last time, but I can't remember what I did to fix it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Its all in there.

now back to my original question.

all bikes have this floating rear axle held by a pinch bolt. and a nut. The Yamaha touring bikes have a shaft and final drive on the wheel. The shaft has a sleeve on one end that goes through the frame and is held by a pinch bolt...This sleeve hole, goes all the way through the frame, and the axle can ride on the washers, spacers and brackets between the sleeve and the wheel.

The position of the shaft sleeve, in the hole, changes the location of the castle nut on the end of the shaft that tightens the entire assembly.
Because the final drive is mounted to the swing frame, the wheel must mesh with the drive gears, so the wheel must be held to the left.

Is there a rule or guide as to the position of the shaft in the sleeve hole, other than the castle nut itself?(don't really want to cut off duh dong here!) I was kind of happy with my CB750 when I figured this out the last time, but I can't remember what I did to fix it.
Well, while I had the rear wheel off mine probably a dozen times or more, I don't remember wondering about how to put it back together, but it has been several years since the last time I had it off. If you are still not sure, there are a couple of Venture forums here and here where you can probably register as a guest and get a quick and accurate answer from someone who owns one like yours and is familiar with what you are asking about. sorry I wasn't more help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Also, just wanted to say the 1st gen venture is a great machine. Mine had about 20k miles on it when I got it in the mid 90's and when I replaced it with my VTX a few years ago, it had 177k miles on it, never had to do any major repairs on it, but the plastic had gotten in bad shape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The only place it could be missing a part, is on the sleeve end.
and all of that is properly installed.

I suppose the shaft might stretch.

When I back the shaft up, pinch it down, I can tighten the nut on the end and it doesn't pass the castles.

any ole rule of thumb guys....

just any wild guess or anything...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Relying on the pinch bolt to hold the 110 pounds of torque does not seem right. The head of the axle should be solid against the right control arm somehow. Maybe the collar (or the washer) with the shoulder on it is on the inside and should be on the outside to stop the axle from burying in the control arm . At 70 MPH you want all that metal solid and secure !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Here is a youtube- video showing rear tire removal from a 89 Venture which is the same as your 83. Im not sure how much, if any, help it might be but about 6:22 into the video, there is a pretty clear close up of the axle on the brake side where I think your problem lies - maybe you can tell something from that...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The hole in the frame where the sleeve goes throught the pinch, goes all the way through the frame, and there is no stopper, or mount to stop the sleeve from penetrating through to the brake caliper mount.

When I tighten it, the sleeve pulls through the frame and up against the brake caliper, forcing the caliper and the collar into the wheel and tightens it up until it freezes the wheel solid. that is not right.

I got to figure this out....

good news today though....
the radio tape and tape player work...
but I need a set of intercom headsets for it!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,640 Posts
That sounds like the spacer flange and/or spacer that goes between the bearings is absent. Without either piece, you would get that reaction to tightening the axle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Looking at the closeup in the video link, it appears that the collar of the axle is not supposed to fit through the hole with the pinch bolt.
venture-rear.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Problem solved!!!

When I installed the new bearings, their was a girl flagging traffic out front, I was showing off and left out the main pin bearing race, which is important in the fact that without it, the axle is too small and it also acts as a spacer between the spacer and the final drive hub. I could see where it had been rubbing on the final without the race in there....

I am sure glad I didn't try to ride it with the axle loose.
PS...

The race is not on the manual repair diagram as part of the rear axle set.
So I did not even consider ignorance as the main cause of the problem.
ahem
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top