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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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I am going to say all of the above, depending on what you are trying to do.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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On my bike you try and assume any one of those angles and you are going to be scrapping hard enough to lift the tires off the ground.
 

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Aging & Worn
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For "me" (on a cruiser) NONE of the above photos are appropriate for my cornering. If "I" had to corner that extremely on my cruiser, I'd likely dump the bike!! (lol)

-Soupy
 

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There is not a simple answer to your question.

By throwing your body off the bike, to the INSIDE of the turn, you can keep the BIKE more upright. As a result you are less likely to scrape hard parts like pegs, floorboards, etc. and wipe out.

Even by keeping your body INLINE with the lean of the bike, you are ASSISTING it in going around a corner.

Yet there are times when you want to COUNTER-LEAN, that is, youre turning right, you lean left and PUSH DOWN on the bars.

At some point on a bike you want to go around corners FASTER and SAFER than you currently do.

Begin by moving your head and shoulders to a position where you could "kiss" your mirror on the inside of the corner. Right turn, kiss the right mirror. That simple body position/weight shift will make an enormous difference in how well you can corner.

Next you can begin experimenting with hanging your butt 2" off the seat to either side, throwing EVEN MORE weight to the inside of the corner.

What CONFUSED ME was that I could ALSO go around corners by COUNTER-LEANING and pressing down HARD on the bars. IN essence you're leaning the bike FURTHER, whilke keeping your body upright. This has it's limits, but on some bikes, like feet-forward scooters, it works amazingly well.

If you watch the Gran Prix riders, they ALL "hang off" to the inside of the corner.

It requires the LEAST amount of traction the further the RIDER leans and the less the BIKE is forced to lean; so it's safer. That's why every MC racer since Kenny Roberts "hangs off" to the inside of the corner.

I can tell you all this, you can intellectually HEAR it, but until you can either DO it yourself, or go take a week at California Superbike School or similar and FEEL it, it really won't sink in.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #10
There is not a simple answer to your question.

By throwing your body off the bike, to the INSIDE of the turn, you can keep the BIKE more upright. As a result you are less likely to scrape hard parts like pegs, floorboards, etc. and wipe out.

Even by keeping your body INLINE with the lean of the bike, you are ASSISTING it in going around a corner.

Yet there are times when you want to COUNTER-LEAN, that is, youre turning right, you lean left and PUSH DOWN on the bars.

At some point on a bike you want to go around corners FASTER and SAFER than you currently do.

Begin by moving your head and shoulders to a position where you could "kiss" your mirror on the inside of the corner. Right turn, kiss the right mirror. That simple body position/weight shift will make an enormous difference in how well you can corner.

Next you can begin experimenting with hanging your butt 2" off the seat to either side, throwing EVEN MORE weight to the inside of the corner.

What CONFUSED ME was that I could ALSO go around corners by COUNTER-LEANING and pressing down HARD on the bars. IN essence you're leaning the bike FURTHER, whilke keeping your body upright. This has it's limits, but on some bikes, like feet-forward scooters, it works amazingly well.

If you watch the Gran Prix riders, they ALL "hang off" to the inside of the corner.

It requires the LEAST amount of traction the further the RIDER leans and the less the BIKE is forced to lean; so it's safer. That's why every MC racer since Kenny Roberts "hangs off" to the inside of the corner.

I can tell you all this, you can intellectually HEAR it, but until you can either DO it yourself, or go take a week at California Superbike School or similar and FEEL it, it really won't sink in.

HTH

So body lean is better than bike lean?
 

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here's what I DO.

First, I ride a cruiser, so I don't drag a knee.
But its a Power Cruiser and I rip it thru the turns pretty well.

I use the same technique as #3.
I hang my body off the bike a little bit,
allowing the wheels to make a slightly better angle (less lean) on the asphalt.
this retains a LITTLE MORE traction on the road
which is what I am after.

It's true that on a cruiser you are only talking about small differences, compared to what the sports bike folks can do. but that small amount of difference does have an effect on my bike, because my body weight is about 30% of the bike's weight.

dT
 

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Of course. There is no doubt that, even on a cruiser, leaning is fundamental.

As stated however, not as extremely as the folks do it who ride rice-rockets (for lack of a better descriptive term; not meant as a derogatory description).

I suppose that if I were to find myself in a very "do or die" situation, I would attempt a greater body lean, but as the bike reacted to my maneuver, I'd likely hit the foot pads before I got to an extreme angle, stopping any potential dramatic leaning.

-Soupy
 

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I suppose that if I were to find myself in a very "do or die" situation, I would attempt a greater body lean, but as the bike reacted to my maneuver, I'd likely hit the foot pads before I got to an extreme angle, stopping any potential dramatic leaning.
Leaning forward and to the inside (chin over wrist) will give you more ground clearance and less of an extreme angle for the same speed around a corner compared to riding inline with the motorcycle. It's good to learn in case you get into a jam where those floorboards might scrape.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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Soupy - you can always call them sports bikes.
With forward controls it is a bit difficult to put your chin over your wrist, but you can get your butt over in the seat to the inside of the turn
 

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So body lean is better than bike lean?
They're equivalent in some regards and not in others.

Compare a motorbike and rider to a bicycle and rider.

The motorcycle is 2-5X heavier than the rider.

A bicycle is 1/5th or less the weight of the rider.

So leaning the body a LITTLE bit makes a bicycle turn a whole lot.

A motorcycle MUST be leaned over in order to turn. You can do this by leaning the bike itself, by leaning the rider, or both. Or even leaning the rider the WRONG way and the motorcycle even more the RIGHT way.

The more you lean the combined weight of the bike and rider the LESS work the tires have to do. In other words, the LESS you are likely to slide out, aka "lowside."

But you can only lean a bike SO FAR till parts start scraping, and that ain't good. Lean the rider TOO FAR off the bike and he'll scrape his knee or elbow, which, if he's wearing suitable racing gear, is no big deal.

So for MAXIMUM cornering you lean the rider as far as HE can go, and then lean the bike to JUST BEFORE where metal scrapes asphalt.

(Metal scraping asphalt makes a really nice lever to help lift the rear wheel off the ground a teensy amount causing loss of traction and resultant lowside slideout.

You want to understand lowside versus highside wipeouts? Go to Youtube.

I can explain this till we're BOTH blue in the face, you've got to ride more, corner more, and consider going to Superbike school and suddenly it will ALL make sense. It ONLY took me ten or so years to understand cornering, leaning, counterleaning, etc. WITHOUT going to Superbike (or similar) school. (All all those "how to ride a mc" books didn't help me a damn bit)

So save some dollars and go to track school and you'll ride safer faster and have a lot more FUN that desperately trying to understand something that must be learned kinesthetically, that is, with the body, and not with the brain.

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So body lean is better than bike lean?
They're equivalent in some regards and not in others.

Compare a motorbike and rider to a bicycle and rider.

The motorcycle is 2-5X heavier than the rider.

A bicycle is 1/5th or less the weight of the rider.

So leaning the body a LITTLE bit makes a bicycle turn a whole lot.

A motorcycle MUST be leaned over in order to turn. You can do this by leaning the bike itself, by leaning the rider, or both. Or even leaning the rider the WRONG way and the motorcycle even more the RIGHT way.

The more you lean the combined weight of the bike and rider the LESS work the tires have to do. In other words, the LESS you are likely to slide out, aka "lowside."

But you can only lean a bike SO FAR till parts start scraping, and that ain't good. Lean the rider TOO FAR off the bike and he'll scrape his knee or elbow, which, if he's wearing suitable racing gear, is no big deal.

So for MAXIMUM cornering you lean the rider as far as HE can go, and then lean the bike to JUST BEFORE where metal scrapes asphalt.

(Metal scraping asphalt makes a really nice lever to help lift the rear wheel off the ground a teensy amount causing loss of traction and resultant lowside slideout.

You want to understand lowside versus highside wipeouts? Go to Youtube.

I can explain this till we're BOTH blue in the face, you've got to ride more, corner more, and consider going to Superbike school and suddenly it will ALL make sense. It ONLY took me ten or so years to understand cornering, leaning, counterleaning, etc. WITHOUT going to Superbike (or similar) school. (All all those "how to ride a mc" books didn't help me a damn bit)

So save some dollars and go to track school and you'll ride safer faster and have a lot more FUN that desperately trying to understand something that must be learned kinesthetically, that is, with the body, and not with the brain.

Cheers!
You bought that keith codes book?
 

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You bought that keith codes book?
Bought and read ALL of the half dozen major "How to Ride a MC" books.

They just didn't "speak" in terms and descriptions that made sense TO ME.

For example, I discovered ON MY OWN that I could corner either by leaning my body INTO the curve (hanging off the side in the direciton I wanted to turn) or AWAY from the curve while shoving the handlebars down the OTHER WAY.

I now know that as "leaning" vs "counter-leaning."

I got my azz royally chewed, told "It's all about COUNTERSTEERING" and that's ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.

wrong. At least for ME it's wrong.

So buy the books. Maybe they'll speak to you.

Or just go ride more. You've got to create your OWN mental model of how to make a motorcycle corner/turn/steer unless you're one of those "naturals" that just does it by instinct.
 

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"You bought that keith codes book?"

Keith Codes was the original inventor of hieroglyphics. THAT's why the Pharaohs became extinct. Keith wrote the instruction book for chariot repair.

dT
 
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