[ogandou]

So I'd like to buy a scooter new from the dealership, I'm totally new to this and I wonder what fees are acceptable and what fees are not.

Unit price is the MSRP ($3,099). From seedealercost.com I think the dealership paid ~$2,750 for it. I guess there's a little bit of wiggle room there but not much. I understand they have to make a profit on it of course.

Then I see freight $350. I guess that's the cost of shipping the scooter to the dealership? I'd think $200 would be more reasonable, no? I think that's the amount I saw somewhere but I can't remember where.

Dealer prep $199. OK it probably takes an experienced guy an hour max to put it together out of the crate? That sounds a bit much as well.

Tax I guess can't be avoided :-D $228.

Then I see $150 doc fees. Not sure what that is?

$104 for tags and $100 for title. I'm guessing this is administrative and can't be avoided...

So total is about $4,250 (for a $3,100 MSRP, seems like a big difference). I guess here is a little bit of possible haggling over unit price, freight, dealer prep and doc fees? ~$400-$500 off maybe? Tops?

 

[Critter]

The doc fees are set by the dealer in MD and that seems to be a standard rate. You may have a little wiggle room there. Dealer prep is also set by the dealer you may have some room there. Shipping you may or may not have any room. Taxes none. Tags and title none. It all depends on how bad the dealer wants to sell it as to how much you can get off of it.

 

[ogandou]

This particular dealer only has one in stock. Don't know if it's because they don't expect to sell many (in which case they might want to get rid of it) or if it's because they had more and sold the others. I'm also trying to get an invoice from another dealer in Virginia, who has at least 4 or 5. Not sure if it'll make a difference in their willingness to negotiate! :-D I'm guessing it might make a difference on title and tags though...

But I guess basically it comes down to an OTD invoice at +37% over the MSRP. It seems a bit extreme. :-\

 

[hogcowboy]

Personally I don't care what the fees are if the OTD price is acceptable. They can make them anything they want. It's that bottom figure I'm interested in. I usually have a figure I'm looking for and if they can get close enough to that figure then we have a deal. I'll even tell them my figure so they can go fiddle with their figures. But I won't tell them my figure until I see their OTD figure first. I'm always prepared to walk too and have had to on occasion before they start changing the figures.That's the key to buying a bike from a dealer. Walking away! Didn't work so well with the Indian though. When I bought that bike not a single dealer would budge. Apparently they do a little now.

 

[Dodsfall]

You are falling into a trap. Dealers like to throw a whole bunch of numbers at you, which are difficult to keep track of. This allows them to lower the retail price, then make it up on the back end with fees.

Certain costs are unchangeable. Actual freight charges, taxes, registration and title transfer fees are real costs. You can check with the manufacturer website to verify the freight costs, and with your state to see what the rest are.

Doc fees are paperwork fees. They are charging for the paperwork that they fill out and a file folder to put it in. Maybe your share of the file cabinet they keep it in. Total profit for the dealer since their real costs are pennies.

Dealing with an out the door price is simpler. All a buyer really needs to know is how much the bike is going to cost them, not how the dealer got to that price.

 

[ogandou]

Right, what I'm interested in is only the out the door price, that's really all I care about, the break-down and how they'll allocate the various line items is their business, not mine. My main issue (and the most difficult one I'm guessing ) is to figure out what a reasonable and fair (for all parties involved) OTD price would be.

 

[ogandou]

You can check with the manufacturer website to verify the freight costs,

I've seen this before but I haven't been able to find them, except for third-party shippers, which I don't know if they're accurate...

 

[Dodsfall]

The manufacturer doesn't have a website?

 

[ogandou]

:-D Yes they do, they have several in fact (Piaggio), but I wasn't able to find information about their products' costs of shipping to dealers on it...

 

[Dodsfall]

Here is the contact info from their website:

[email protected]

 

[ogandou]

Thanks, I'll try to contact them.

Stupid question but: models listed as 2018 are this year or last year? I see a dealer down in Virginia offering $500 sales on these (2018 models), which would mean they'd be selling them at a loss? All the models around me are 2018 but only these guys are offering a sale...

 

[ogandou]

So I got an OTD invoice today. The first version of the invoice was missing the $500 dealer discount. So they corrected it and sent me a second one... but on the second one the dealer forgot to include the title & registration fees as well as the taxes. So that $500 discount is suddenly becoming a $750 discount! :-D I don't suppose this is binding, is it?! :-D Cause if it is, I think the 90 miles distance are suddenly not such a big deal!

 

[hogcowboy]

90 miles to get a bike at a price you want is absolutely nothing to begin with. Some fly cross country and ride back for that very reason. Miles are commonly called 'smiles" because you are doing what you want, ride.

 

[ogandou]

Yeah but it's a 150cc scooter though. Not exactly interstate material! :-D Highway would take a while but it wouldn't be the end of the world though... I'd worried about messing up the engine break-in procedure though...

 

[Eye_m_no_angel]

How are you going to get TO the scooter, 90 miles away?

 

[ogandou]

My wife will drive me.

That being said, the estimate from that dealer 90 miles away just goes to show me what price I can expect OTD-wise from the dealers near me, so hopefully I won't need to go that far...

 

[Eye_m_no_angel]

If you have to go that far maybe you could rent a small light trailer to pull the new scooter home.

 

[hogcowboy]

+1 on the trailer as option 2. But with your wife behind you with her flasher going it wouldn't be too bad. Your ride home could be breaking the engine in just fine with variable speeds and nothing constant for long periods of time. Doing it like that you might have one of the best broke in scooters going cause I bet most just start riding with no regard to break-in procedures. I bet a trailer rental wouldn't cost but maybe $100. But you might also have to rent a hitch. Still might get both for the minimum rate.

 

[Porky]

A year ago, I made a 1,500 mile round trip to buy a new left over stock, 2012 Yamaha Star 1300T and had them load it into the back of my pickup:wink2: (saved $2,500)

Deals are out there, you just have to be willing to find them:grin:

Just a 'heads up' for you, Piaggio/ Aprilia dealers are few compared to the JAP scooters that have dealers everywhere, with instant parts availability, unlike Piaggio:grin:

Dealer's, part's and service is an important consideration to me! My nearest Piaggio/ Aprilia dealer is 150 miles due north and that distance is the main reason why I'm not sitting on a Moto Guzzi right now:surprise:

Sam:nerd:

 

[ogandou]

Yeah, I actually have a Suzuki/Yamaha dealership less than a mile from my house. Can't love their scooters though, and they are a good deal more expensive than the Piaggios (which have stellar reviews). But I do like the Suzuki TU250, so I'm still torn between the two, scooter vs motorcycle... Saw a used one nearby but can't get the price from the dealer!!! :-\

-Olivier