Motorcycle Forum banner
1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 150cc china scooter, new. It's getting Really Bad gas mileage. I figure about 35 miles to the gallon. I've filled the tank twice now and it's got 71 miles on it, a 1.3 gallon tank. Everything is stock. Ideas?

According to the place I bought it, it's supposed to get 90 mpg You can see the specs here: 150cc Moped Scooter Razor 150 BLUE with New Design Sporty Look, Electric and Kick Start, Low Seat Height - 150CC Scooters - Gas Scooters / Mopeds - Scooters | redfoxpowersports

Thanks. If you need more info ask away and I'll try to provide details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Curious, have you asked the guy that claimed it would get 90mpg yet?
I could swear the specs said that but I don't see it now. I may have just been mistaken. However I know 50cc's claim 100 mpg and most 150cc scooters are a little less but no where near as bad as 35 mpg. - Edit: a google search tells me a 150cc should get 70 mpg at 60 mph. My scooter has gotten up to it's max speed of 55 twice for a few seconds each time. Normally I run between 30 and 35 miles per hour and that's just for short runs of say 3 miles at a time which includes stopping for stop signs and stop lights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
When a manufacturer makes a vehicle that meets emissions standards, they have to document fuel consumption information. Your purchase says it's not CARB compliant right on the advertisement. They don't need to claim anything after that, it becomes your problem. Next problem, the advertisement does say the fuel capacity of the scoot is 1.05 gallons :unsure: how did you put 1.3 gallons into the tank?


Honda 125cc Supercub claims in excess of 150 miles per gallon, but that's not real world fuel economy, that's the milage that you might achieve under optimum conditions. It's also a scoot with much larger wheels, a smaller displacement engine, Honda fuel injection and a 4-speed semi-automatic transmission. Your scoot doesn't say much about the engine so you can bet it has a tiny carburetor on it and you don't have gears you have a rubber belt. You will never see the fuel range that the likes of a supercub will get, the hardware is just not there to support it. As for 35mpg hopefully that is just a miscalculation, otherwise you are using fuel as fast as my litre bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
When a manufacturer makes a vehicle that meets emissions standards, they have to document fuel consumption information. Your purchase says it's not CARB compliant right on the advertisement. They don't need to claim anything after that, it becomes your problem. Next problem, the advertisement does say the fuel capacity of the scoot is 1.05 gallons :unsure: how did you put 1.3 gallons into the tank?


Honda 125cc Supercub claims in excess of 150 miles per gallon, but that's not real world fuel economy, that's the milage that you might achieve under optimum conditions. It's also a scoot with much larger wheels, a smaller displacement engine, Honda fuel injection and a 4-speed semi-automatic transmission. Your scoot doesn't say much about the engine so you can bet it has a tiny carburetor on it and you don't have gears you have a rubber belt. You will never see the fuel range that the likes of a supercub will get, the hardware is just not there to support it. As for 35mpg hopefully that is just a miscalculation, otherwise you are using fuel as fast as my litre bike.
The gallons are Easy. When your memory shrinks, the tank gets bigger. LOL I was just misremembering the size. It didn't matter to me or for the purposes of this thread as long as it at least got a gallon in it.

CARB compliant is only a California thing. Since it doesn't apply to the rest of the 49 states I don't think they could sell a scooter that's that bad on gas and not run into some other problems with legality in other parts of the country. I have seen many videos that show taking off all the emissions stuff can give you both more hp and better gas mileage, especially on Chinese scooters where the emissions equipment doesn't work to begin with. We know removing emissions from cars is known to do these things also, it's old news and a popular mod people do. I can get away with that if I needed to because my county has zero emissions restrictions. In fact, they don't even check emissions when getting an inspection tag. I'd like to do it just to see how much of an improvement it makes but I wanna get the scooter running as good as possible before I make any modifications like that.

The carb the scooter has is a PD24J.

So you agree 35 mpg is very poor gas mileage. I'd never compare it to a SuperCub or something that is not a GY6 scooter.

I can tell you this: There are no break in instructions for the scooter on the website or in the users manual. Like I said I've reached 55 twice just to see how high it could go for a few seconds each time. I don't know that it was enough to cause blowby of the rings. I assume the scooter isn't fully broken in yet. I have read that 80% of the break in takes place within the first 20 miles. I didn't go 55 until after 35 miles on the odometer. I did change the factory motor oil and gear oil before I ever started up the scooter.

The engine is a 1P57QMJ which means it has "slightly more performance than non-P GY6’s engine" Locate GY6 Engine Code

The manual for the scooter says,

" Adjusting the carburetor: Stable carburation of fuel is essential to good engine performance. As the carburetor has been adjusted by the factory to the best condition, do not make any changes as you wish. What you can do is adjust the throttle grip and idle speed.

(A) Adjusting the throttle grip - Here it goes on to describe the standard method for adjusting the grip's play either via the barrel adjuster under the grip or at the carb so I won't copy all the text.

(B) Adjusting the idle speed
1. Start the engine and allow it to run for a few minutes to warm up.
2. Tighten the fuel supply adjuster screw and slowly loosen it by normally one and a half turn. Fasten the adjuster screw at the position where the highest speed is obtained and then turn the idle speed screw finely to the required idle speed."

Problem is, the manual lies. I can Only adjust the idle screw because the air/fuel mixture screw is sealed by a Welch plug. ( I do not find any screw on the carb that is called a "fuel supply adjuster screw", I assume this is what we normally call an air/fuel mixture screw) I have seen many videos on adjusting it for lean stoic or rich and am confidant I could adjust it, I just haven't tried yet. I have read the factory sets the carbs for above sea level use but don't know the specific sea level number. My city is at most 3 feet above sea level. This may be part of my problem. So far I've only adjusted the idle screw as low as possible to keep the bike running. The carb does have an auto choke/enricher on it if that tells you anything. Suggested things to replace from factory with this type of scooter include all fuel lines/hoses on the carb and spark plug. The spark plug is gapped properly though I haven't been able to change it yet to a NGK or replace the hoses.
 

·
On The Road Again!
Joined
·
4,010 Posts
35 mpg?? Good God! My 900 pound, 1500 cc Goldwing gets 42 mpg day and day out!
Sounds like all that gas is going somewhere other than through the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
35 mpg?? Good God! My 900 pound, 1500 cc Goldwing gets 42 mpg day and day out!
Sounds like all that gas is going somewhere other than through the engine.
I know it does sound that way but I cannot find any leaks nor do I smell any gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
...
CARB compliant is only a California thing. Since it doesn't apply to the rest of the 49 states ...
EPA does and it doesn't meet that either. Probably because it eats gas like crazy. I don't think your scoot has any pollution control devices to remove.
"my county has zero emissions restrictions" Sorry to break this to you, but vehicle emissions comes under federal law.
Same as here in Canada and we use the California standards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
EPA does and it doesn't meet that either. Probably because it eats gas like crazy. I don't think your scoot has any pollution control devices to remove.
"my county has zero emissions restrictions" Sorry to break this to you, but vehicle emissions comes under federal law.
Same as here in Canada and we use the California standards.
Sorry to break it to you but your info isn't accurate. "However, vehicle owners only need to complete the car emissions testing process if they plan to register a vehicle in the five-parish Baton Rouge area, which includes West Baton Rouge, Livingston, East Baton Rouge, Ascension and Iberville. " https://www.dmv.com/la/louisiana/em...utm_term=organic_dmv&utm_campaign=organic_dmv

I live in a parish (what you would call a county) that is outside of this area. In the USA, the US Constitution says Federal jurisdiction is anything in the document that is reserved for government. If anything is Not specified in the US Constitution, it can be left to the States to decide how to handle the situation. This is where emissions fall as it is not baked into the US Constitution. People of my parish have voted they don't want or need emissions testing so No, we simply don't have it at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Sorry to break it to you but your info isn't accurate. "However, vehicle owners only need to complete the car emissions testing process if they plan to register a vehicle in the five-parish Baton Rouge area, which includes West Baton Rouge, Livingston, East Baton Rouge, Ascension and Iberville. " https://www.dmv.com/la/louisiana/em...utm_term=organic_dmv&utm_campaign=organic_dmv

I live in a parish (what you would call a county) that is outside of this area. In the USA, the US Constitution says Federal jurisdiction is anything in the document that is reserved for government. If anything is Not specified in the US Constitution, it can be left to the States to decide how to handle the situation. This is where emissions fall as it is not baked into the US Constitution. People of my parish have voted they don't want or need emissions testing so No, we simply don't have it at all.
So you live like on a reservation, that's very cool, but I'm not seeing the part that says your 150cc gas eating motor scooter will be exempt from needing to be smog compliant. Good luck with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So you live like on a reservation, that's very cool, but I'm not seeing the part that says your 150cc gas eating motor scooter will be exempt from needing to be smog compliant. Good luck with that.
I wouldn't compare it to a reservation, it's one of the largest parishes in the state taking up 665 square miles. It's just as normal as any county in any state in the US, far from a reservation in legal terms. It's the vehicle manufacturer who's job it is to place emissions equipment in the vehicle if they are needed for the area of the country it will be sold in. This is why they do make distinctions for CARB compliant vehicles that will be sold in California. None of my vehicles Ever get checked for smog emissions. An inspection tag where I live is most often called a brake tag because emissions are not checked nor are any emissions standards other states may use enforced. Now If I travel to California for instance I would be required to have my vehicle checked and refitted to be CARB compliant if I plan to register the vehicle in California. There is NO "smog compliant" here that we have to follow. You may not believe it but I don't care.. you are from Canada and you guys must follow California CARB rules so I'm not surprised you are shocked by this new information you have been exposed to as it is so foreign to your experience.

You have been critical of a lot of things I say in this thread and use a demeaning tone without offering one item of advice that would actually help me solve the problem. If all you are here for is to find fault instead of actually trying to help, you are encouraged not to participate in this thread any longer.
 

·
Short Fuse
Joined
·
422 Posts
I have a 150cc china scooter, new. It's getting Really Bad gas mileage. I figure about 35 miles to the gallon. I've filled the tank twice now and it's got 71 miles on it, a 1.3 gallon tank. Everything is stock. Ideas?

According to the place I bought it, it's supposed to get 90 mpg You can see the specs here: 150cc Moped Scooter Razor 150 BLUE with New Design Sporty Look, Electric and Kick Start, Low Seat Height - 150CC Scooters - Gas Scooters / Mopeds - Scooters | redfoxpowersports

Thanks. If you need more info ask away and I'll try to provide details.
If the specs on the link you provided are accurate - a lot of your problem is that your bike weighs 350lb and is a 150cc low performance 10hp automatic scooter.

My Aprilia is 490lb (140lb difference) - 750cc and 95hp.

Your scoot seems to be limited by weight obesity and very poor power to weight ratio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If the specs on the link you provided are accurate - a lot of your problem is that your bike weighs 350lb and is a 150cc low performance 10hp automatic scooter.

My Aprilia is 490lb (140lb difference) - 750cc and 95hp.

Your scoot seems to be limited by weight obesity and very poor power to weight ratio.
The scooter only weighs 194 lbs. 350 is the total limit with all fluids, rider and whatever you may be carrying on the back. I weigh 110 lbs. Look around at other 150cc scooters, you'll find many of them are in the 10 hp area. Lance for instance made by Sym uses only 11.8 hp for their 169cc 200i models. Kymco Super 8 150 with a displacement of 151cc is rated at 10.5 hp, (Mine is 10.58Hp) it weighs 50 lbs more than my scooter dry weight. Compared to these, my scooter would not be too heavy for the power to weight ratio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
GY6 engines have several ways they can be fine tuned, there are variator weights, clutch springs wieght sizes, lighter flywheels, different canshafts etc.. I have personally seen a lot of the 150 engines have excessive cam wear, even being fairly new. metals are just not as robust as they used to be.. So it just depends on the combination of the componets inside the engine, that ultimatly decides the MPG. FYI: there 4 different camshafts for the 150 gy6.

Pull the spark plug and that will let you know if its running rich or lean..
 

Attachments

·
Bürgerpolizei
2009 Ninja 500r
Joined
·
1,475 Posts
Something that just hit me in the title... It says New... maybe it is still breaking in?

In my experience chinese parts/stuff are only described in the best case scenario not average, at least the stuff they import to us. There are countless threads of failures and issues and then add to my own experience that I had that ended in selling it with a big bore kit and lost dreams that I should have invested in a true japanese bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
GY6 engines have several ways they can be fine tuned, there are variator weights, clutch springs wieght sizes, lighter flywheels, different canshafts etc.. I have personally seen a lot of the 150 engines have excessive cam wear, even being fairly new. metals are just not as robust as they used to be.. So it just depends on the combination of the componets inside the engine, that ultimatly decides the MPG. FYI: there 4 different camshafts for the 150 gy6.

Pull the spark plug and that will let you know if its running rich or lean..
Here is my plug. Compared to your picture, my plug looks Perfect to me unless I'm blind as a bat. best pic.jpg I've replaced it with an NGK equivalent. The original is a Torch A7TC. My gap specs are 0.6 to 0.7 which I think it Really Nuts because 0.6 is 0.24 on my gauge and 0.7 is 0.28. (That's a large difference and why I hate mm) I split the difference and gapped it to 0.26.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Something that just hit me in the title... It says New... maybe it is still breaking in?

In my experience chinese parts/stuff are only described in the best case scenario not average, at least the stuff they import to us. There are countless threads of failures and issues and then add to my own experience that I had that ended in selling it with a big bore kit and lost dreams that I should have invested in a true japanese bike.
I know a guy who bought a 200cc from the same company and same brand a few weeks before I bought my scooter. He says at first his got bad gas mileage too until he put in a quality plug, gave it a couple of oil changes while breaking in and after it was fully broken in he's getting between 65 and 70 miles per gallon. Perhaps this is a common thing that the gas mileage won't by where it should be until it's fully broken in. I'm hoping My mileage improves like this fella did for him once it's fully broken in.

I would have bought a used Japanese scooter because I couldn't afford new but I looked in my area for two months everyday using all the online resources I could find and could never find one for sale. It seems people don't get rid of these too often. My next scooter will be a Sym or Kymco, not Chinese, has as good quality as Honda (considering Kymco actually made all Hondas parts and engines for years and Sym is a Kymco clone who has been competing with them for many years) - They are half the price of Honda or the other Big Jap scooter makers even new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
... None of my vehicles Ever get checked for smog emissions. ...
It is my point of view that the law of the land is the law of the land,
not a function of what a person can get away with.

Lot of people seem to think anything goes if they aren't enforcing the law, that is exactly how you bring about government forcing an issue at great cost to everyone, just keep rejecting it. My road vehicles will always be 100% compliant and my race vehicles will always be 100% non-compliant, because I too have a nice reservation to ride them on with no law, and because it is actually legal still for me to do that with a competition only motorcycle. ymmv.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Here is my plug. Compared to your picture, my plug looks Perfect to me unless I'm blind as a bat. View attachment 68922 I've replaced it with an NGK equivalent. The original is a Torch A7TC. My gap specs are 0.6 to 0.7 which I think it Really Nuts because 0.6 is 0.24 on my gauge and 0.7 is 0.28. (That's a large difference and why I hate mm) I split the difference and gapped it to 0.26.
They are giving you the plug gap within a .1mm range
You are setting the plug within ~2 thousandths of an inch
.1mm = 3.93701 thousandths of an inch, same difference, you did it right. (y)

Your Plug looks dandy from here if it sparks good.

Does the bike have a catalytic converter, if it did and raw fuel was going through the engine without burning completely, your catalytic converter would be working overtime (producing copious quantities of heat)
No heat anywhere and no fuel loss anywhere and no gas fumes out the rear, engine performs well, then you should be getting the gas milage expected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Here is my plug. Compared to your picture, my plug looks Perfect to me unless I'm blind as a bat. View attachment 68922 I've replaced it with an NGK equivalent. The original is a Torch A7TC. My gap specs are 0.6 to 0.7 which I think it Really Nuts because 0.6 is 0.24 on my gauge and 0.7 is 0.28. (That's a large difference and why I hate mm) I split the difference and gapped it to 0.26.

Yes it does look exellent..So your getting great fuel burn in the cylinder, meaning the amount going in is the equivilant to the amount actually being burnt. thats good!.
your gap for the 150 gy6 should be 0.23, the carb limits the amount of fuel, so a hotter (larger) spark will only increase the cylinder temp, and posibly burn a piston. I usually only recomend one to two size's either over or under the oem spec. so you be your own judge there.


But for your initial issue, the EPA MPG ratings for any engine are tested by the manufacturer, and not the epa...the manufacture tests this in either an enclosed indoor engine test facility, or on a closed outdoor course. Your most likely doing "city" stop and go type of riding. this is the #1 reason your informed MPG dont match the actual MPG.

Now as I stated before, the componets in your eng/trans will allow "some" fluctuation and adjustability for the better MPG's, However when you start tuning for MPG, you will have to sacrafice overall power you cant have both. Oem smog systems attempt to try and deliver both, but any restriction on an engine will result in overall power loss. How much depends on that actual engine and componet combination.

Example: a gy6 smog system like any other has a recirculation of "already burnt" gasses re enter the combustion chamber, thus limiting tha actual amount of new air/fuel mixture the carb will toss in there. that in general will result in a cleaner running engine and better MPG, but will sacrifice Power (verry little, but its still a loss). If this guy claimed you will getX amount of MPG's, he was pulling the salseman routine on you, as no one person/machine will ever get a guaranteed MPG,

-Factors are:
-rider weight
-riding method..city/highway
-octane of fuel
-size of carb jets
-ambient temprature outside hot/cold climates
-altitude
-air filter type (oem air boxes provide better mpg, by being a minor restriction that provides a more consistent flow)
-varriator weights size(determins the amount of rpm till it actually starts to enguage the belt)
-clutch primary and secondary spring estimated strength (rpm at which each one will operate)

so no, he was buttering you up and glazing your donuts... you can Like I said play with different parts and settings, but if it runs good, accelerates good and has good power, your most likely already at the max, or your possibly miscalculating your actual MPG's also thay are correct, if its not fully broke in(rings seated, valves fully seated, there will be some improvement to come...
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top