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Gone
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I've seen valves operated by electrical solenoids, which can be opened and closed much faster than a camshaft and spring setup. This allows for higher RPM and horsepower potential.
 

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V65 Junky
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446 Posts
Our old engines have been seeing a lot of technology in the last few years.

I wouldn't think it will stop any time soon.

Some of this stuff is amazing but it does add to the cost greatly.
 

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Premium Member
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I like this statement, "So what’s the hold up? Reliability, refinement and noise levels..."

Probably sounds like on old Diesel engine starting up.
 

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American Legion Rider
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Oh boy. More things that won't work if we get the right solar flare. May as well. The computer won't work anyway so nothing more to lose really. Guess instead of clackers we'll have clickers.
 

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No cam

I believe Formula 1 has been using cam less engines for quite a few years. For them this is old tech. They run 18,000 revs, and make about 800 hp from 1.5 liters. F2 runs bigger engines with less power, and are easier to drive.
F1 has limited them to 18K as some could run over 20K.

This is coming from my memory banks and subject to verification.
For bikes, we have engines that do most everything we want. Same thing with new cages.

Unkle Krusty*
 

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Interesting concept but when will the technology be "ready for prime time"?
 

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Troublemaker
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But they are designed to run for a couple hours non-stop. They don't have to be relied on for years and put up with weather changes and neglect. Don't see it as practical for everyday grandma to run to the Post office for her book of stamps.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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14,370 Posts
True the only need to run for about 2 hours at a time at full throttle during the race. The they also have to run the three 90 practices and the qualifying period. So about 7 hard hours a weekend. 16 weekends with a limit of 5 engines per vehicle. Roughly 21-25 hours of hard running. If we use an average on 130 mph (some tracks faster, some slower) we come up with a figure of 2700-3250 miles. That sounds like a strong engine to me. And the new hybrid engine that they are using charges and discharges once a lap. It charges fast enough to be able to use it as needed during the course of a lap, all from generators on the rear axle.
 

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MODERATOR
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Krusty is right, this is directly from Formula one racing as is the 'electric-servo' actuation.

Any noise is likely the 'air valves' that open the valves, releasing their pressure. Once this noise is eliminated there will be no noise at all or very little.

Losses in the valve train is where so much power is lost and where so much complexity and expense goes into R&D.

I can foresee variable cam timing and overall lift just being an air adjustment away.

When I had a 1999 Cummins turbo diesel ram pickup and was at a facility in Las Vegas, called 'Diesel Dynamics' to get a stage 3 hop-up done, I found out that the noise that the engine made was ONLY from the Injectors 'Poping' up and down and sealing under extreme pressure, so direct injection into the cylinder from a timed pump can eliminate almost all noise.!

Isn't technology grand!

Sam:biggrin:
 

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I had high hopes the "Coates Spherical Rotary Valve" engine would be on the market by now.. but nothing so far. That engine design shows a LOT of promise!

 

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Coates

If a couple of NASCAR teams used them and they worked, they would get popular real quick.
Or maybe the 400 ci midgets could run them.

Unkle Krusty*
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This 'Coates" engine technology is very impressive, much more than anything I've seen so far. Their web-site is very informative.

Sam:coffeescreen:
 

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Premium Member
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If we use an average on 130 mph (some tracks faster, some slower) we come up with a figure of 2700-3250 miles. That sounds like a strong engine to me.
Really? The engine in my Pontiac wasn't really broken in until it passed over 3000 miles. Get back when an engine like that can run 150,000 miles without a breakdown in the valves.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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Yea but your pony can't run wide open for 2 hours either. My little pony bit a piston at 9k (hit a hard 2nd gear w/sand on the road) It never even hesitated going past the 7.5k set redline. So yeah I think an engine that can run from 5-14k for 13 hrs a weekend is a very stout engine. Ask it to do it for 2 - 4 weeks and have it hold together is amazing.
 

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HP

Really? The engine in my Pontiac wasn't really broken in until it passed over 3000 miles. Get back when an engine like that can run 150,000 miles without a breakdown in the valves.
Your Pontiac is making a small fraction of the horsepower that the race cars make. F1 is at 800hp for 1500cc. Also using turbos and E power.
NASCAR and WOO are at 800 with push rod motors, 358 and 400 cu.
Moto GP is making over 200 hp with 1000cc and no turbo.
The Moto 3 are at 45hp with 250 singles.

Unkle Krusty*
 

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All well and good, but that technology still isn't proven for long-distance use. Just because it will run a lot of power for a small number of hours doesn't equate to running a smaller amount of power for 10-20 years. By 'smaller amount of power', I mean only about 180hp from a 2.4l engine, with the rev limit set at 7500rpm (which it hits often enough).

Also, do F1 rules dictate that those engines cannot be torn down during the season?
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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You can replace minor components but nothing major, if it breaks, you pull it and replace it with one of your remaining engines.

You can then tear it down to find out what happened under supervision. If it is deemed a safety issue you can then replace it on all the engines. If not you are stuck with it until next season.

The 2.4 puts out 143 or so HP at the wheels. I am pushing 280 at the wheels out of mine.
 

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The 2.4 puts out 143 or so HP at the wheels. I am pushing 280 at the wheels out of mine.
Mine is stock NA; anything more and it would bump it a couple classes, and then would really be unable to compete.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Compete in what? The Bugger King or Taco Bell or Piggy Wiggly or Dollar store or Walmart or convenience store lunch runs???:biggrin:

Maybe the dirt track destruction derby!:p

Inquiring minds want to know. I sit with "Baited breath" (Whatever that means) for the answer!:wink:

Sam:coffeescreen:
 
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