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ZAMM Fanatic
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ya come into a corner waaay too hot, or there's debris in your path..

For STARTERS, that's why you don't ride 9/10 on public roads. No more than 6/10 if you're on your game, leathered up, caffeined up, rested and ready, ATGATT......

But you STILL come into one waaay too hot...at that point....

I think it's more about MINDSET than skillset.

You come into a corner too hot, or encounter an obstacle and you HAVE to tighten up your corner.

In other words, it's LEAN OR DIE time.

So what does your mind need to be telling you...

1) This bike is capable of CORNERING WAY HARDER than I am, as a rider.

2) Kenny Roberts (or any other famous rider) could EASILY handle this situation.

3) There's nothing Kenny can do that I can't copy at least 50% of --- like leaning this thing over A LOT FURTHER THAN I NORMALLY DO...

4) I AM, i repeat, I AM going to lean this thing as far as it takes rather than hitting that object, swinging wide, going into the other lane and getting head-on'd, or going off the road into a tree.

AND INCURRING SERIOUS INJURY.

5) A low-side (from leaning TOO hard, scraping beyond a point) is ALWAYS preferable to a head-on, a highside, or any other outcome.

The point is, you CAN do it, but you've got to spring-load your mind AHEAD OF TIME that you ARE going to do what is necessary in that situation instead of panicking, braking, standing the bike up, and all the other "reptile responses" that will indeed get you killed.

Of course it never HURTS to have the skillset, a week at track school, decades of riding experience, NOT BE TERRIFIED by the sound of scraping cause you've BEEN THAT FAR OVER BEFORE....

But without the mindset the skillset is worthless.

your thoughts?


Guy riding a HD 7-8/10 on a public road, wearing a t-shirt WITHOUT boots/gloves leather

Point is: HE DID THIS TO HIMSELF!

I suspect his ankle hurts way more than he lets on AFTER the crash...


in aviation we always used to say:

"a superior pilot is one who uses superior JUDGEMENT to avoid situations which would require SUPERIOR flying skills, NOT the hot-shot pilot who, by sheer luck, gets his teat OUT of the wringer successfully...once or twice."
 

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Correct ... MINDSET!

That photo/video might not be the best example. His bike is scraping asphalt when the lean angle is not that big. He shouldn't have allowed his mods on that bike to take away so much lean angle. For that video, his only choice was to enter the corner much slower than he did.

For folks on NORMAL motorcycles, YES GET OVER and lean the bike. And swerve around the obstacle. That's it, man!

This is why it's good for us to practice and "push our envelope a bit". It doesn't pay to get stuck in a comfort zone.

dT
 

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Practice is key. Being able to maneuver without thinking about it too long will lower the risk of crashing greatly. Be sure to practice the more extreme maneuvers in a safe, controlled environment.

I like what Wade said about not pushing the limits too far and keeping a good reserve. Ideally, we want to keep a good deal of traction and lean angle to spare in case we need to use a little more because of a misjudgment. It's much better to go in a little "too slow" than to run over the limits of physics.
 

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Brakes

Brakes help to slow the bike down. If you use them the too hot ( I am assuming you mean too fast ) situation is attended to.
Would be a good idea to practice using the brakes around corners. Just quick easy on and off to start with.
Your point about not riding on the edge is well taken. I have preached it for years.
But today's modern youth have skills you never dreamed of, and can do anything. Actually yesterday's youth also had the same skills. So they say, until you witness them crash, without outside assistance.

Unkle Crusty*
 

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Justa anutta Human......
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I've had to replace both footpegs on my Ninja 650 from taking corners at high speeds with extreme leans.....
I've toned it down a bit.......LOL
Now when i feel the peg feelers scraping i call it good.....
 

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Geez I hate seeing a nice bike get smashed up! The rider did it to himself but the bike was an innocent party, just doing what it was told. :frown:

Knowing the limits of the machine as well as yourself are both important.

I put a sidecar on a new-to-me FXD last winter and the weather has only recently allowed me to get some riding in so I am still getting to know the machine. I had tried "flying the sidecar" but couldn't get the wheel off the ground until last week, unintentionally, in city traffic on a Y-intersection in a divided street. The light was an 'old green' and traffic was moving briskly so I was trying to keep up with the traffic on the right turn. I found the point at which the sidecar wheel comes off the ground! With traffic all around me and a tall curb on the outside of the curve the only alternative (that wasn't ugly) was to brake hard and loose speed, which I did. Fortunately the car behind me must have seen the wheel come up and started to back off 'cause there was room for me to slow down without getting hit from behind.

Knowing how much it took to "fly the sidecar", I added 40 pounds of ballast to the sidecar. It would have been better to perform that little experiment in an empty parking lot LOL!
 

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American Legion Rider
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Yeah, we have a billion people getting welfare checks when most could be fixing our roads to "earn" it. We once had presidents that understood that concept.
 

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Mindset is huge in that most people could easily get through the corner even though they feel like they are going much too fast. Panic reactions set in though and are tough to overcome. Knowledge and practice go hand in hand in making sure that you can overcome your survival reactions.

When riders feel like they are going into a corner too hot what are the most common mistakes they make?
 

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When riders feel like they are going into a corner too hot what are the most common mistakes they make?
The biggest mistake would be to upset the stability of the motorcycle enough to cause loss of traction or change the intended direction. Adding brakes improperly is the most likely suspect.
 

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do you mean, machine set-vs -coordination set?
cause if you do, you need to adjust your mindset to realize how pitiful mankind and its devices are...

Now here I go again... proving my worth through association rather than dot to dot...
 

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Scared

Yeppa.....people get a bit ascared n on goes that brake n down they go.....
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The white Harley rider may have been a bit anxious, did not apply that brake n down he went.
Careful application of the front brake does not mean the bike will crash. It does mean the bike will reduce speed, and might lead to a successful ride around the corner. Plan B was never a factor, and I am surprised no one has mentioned it.
Plan B would be an exit strategy stage ride. Stand the bike upright, aim it basically straight ahead and apply a lot of brake while on the pavement. Ease the brakes when hitting the gravel. Even if he crashed in the gravel it would have caused a lot less damage to the bike and rider.
The bike was not going very fast, and did not have a lot of tippy on. So there was plenty of adhesion left in the front tyre.
This rider had a brain freeze, and did not have the skill to consider and apply other options. A lack of ground clearance was a primary cause, but if he had been on the bike for a while, he should have been aware of that.

Unkle Crusty*
 

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Justa anutta Human......
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Sportbike n engine braking.....
I find that a sportbike in the right playfull rpm range (5->9000)...
Will most times slow ur butt down plenty just letting off the throttle...
At least anything 500 cc up anyway.....
Not sure about smaller sportbikes..?
Of course if ur hitting things such as debreee in the road on corners.....
It's a toss of the coin what will happen...?
Most times brakes or engine brakes just wont do it....
I have had luck in this situation by giving it Helll n doing ur best to lean just a bit more n be brave.....
This has saved my asss more then once in this situation....
I clear the debreee n pull out of the corner with throttle...
It does take a certain mindset to do this.....
I now am a bit older n have many joint issues, so have calmed down.....
Now i now have chicken strips.....
But i've replace many footpeds on corners, and can say i've been there n done that....
It doesn't work everytime........
I have the scars to prove that too....
 

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In my experience, mindset and skillset are one in the same. If you have a good mindset, it breeds skillset. If you have a good skillset then you should have a good mindset.

The gentleman in the illustration above lacked both. His mindset/skillset was wrong in the fact that he entered the corner too hot for the bike he was riding. His lack of skills, coupled with mindset once in the turn, caused him to do several things incorrectly that led to his demise. I believe that had he entered correctly and not repeated the most common survival reaction, he likely would have made it through. Regardless, he was on the wrong bike for the way he was riding.

When riders feel like they are going into a corner too hot what are the most common mistakes they make?
Chopping the throttle, target fixation and grabbing a handful of brake are usually the first of a snowballing catastrophe.

This gentleman was on/off/on/off/on the throttle. Had he drove a bit deeper into the turn, flicked it in more quickly from a late outside turn-in point and remained on the gas, he may have scraped by. It all started at his poor turn-in point. The bad throttle control upset the line even more. The very act of applying gas raises the front and rear of the bike allowing for greater ground clearance. Had he chosen a better line and applied good throttle throughout the entire turn, he would have faired better. A good line is one that allows the throttle to be applied exactly by the rule, which was not the case here. Regardless of the style of bike, had he put his weight to the inside of the turn he would have had to lean less, also giving more clearance.
 

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Justa anutta Human......
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That dude just should of know better with the type bike he was driving.....
I call those guys.....
Dumbass's....simple....
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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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He is sitting way to high on the bike, he should have had his body over the inside of the turn helping the bike through the turn, instead he stuck his foot out, lucky he didn't break his leg
 

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Well you made me look again. Can anyone explain why he started gassing it again or is that just poor audio I'm hearing? Looks like he had it made. Then he gasses it and leans over lifting the rear off the ground. Am I seeing it correctly?
 
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