Motorcycle Forum banner
21 - 33 of 33 Posts

· Registered
2021 CanAm Spyder RT
Joined
·
4,325 Posts
Trikes are different. The three wheel configuration totally changes the dynamics of the vehicle. Turning the handlebars at speed is not really possible. Even a slight turn would destabilize the bike and possibly bring the bike down if you actually turned the bars more than a tiny amount. Try it yourself and see what I mean. Under 30 mph does not count. Make sure your insurance is up to date.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
You guys can actually turn the handlebars in the direction of the curve you want to create at speeds of even 30 miles an hour(??)

I thought counter-steering was something you used pretty much as soon as you let the clutch out all the way going maybe 12 miles an hour or so.
The only time I turn the handlebars the way I want the bike to go is when I'm going so slow I have the clutch partially pulled into the friction zone and I am dragging the back brake a bit.

(Or when I've stopped the bike, put my feet down, put it in Neutral, and am duck-walking it into a parking space or parallel parking along the curb.)
I have never looked at my speedometer while doing this type of tight parking lot maneuvering , but I would estimate that my speed is something like jogging speed-- maybe 6-10 miles an hour?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
There is a huge amount of good advice above.
Mine is much more basic. Be aware of your environment and ride accordingly, then it will not be long before you develop your own riding skills, and control of the the bike will become instinctive.
Be safe and ENJOY!
 

· Registered
2021 CanAm Spyder RT
Joined
·
4,325 Posts
You guys can actually turn the handlebars in the direction of the curve you want to create at speeds of even 30 miles an hour(??)
My guess is that some riders THINK that they are turning the handlebars at 30 mph but are actually counter steering. Again, if you think you can turn the handlebars at that speed or higher, just GENTLY try it. The moment you try to turn right, for instance, pulling the right grip toward you, what will actually be happening is that you are counter steering to the left. Try it more vigorously and I predict you will find yourself sliding on the side of the bike leaving sparks, plastic and skin on the ground.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gunsmoker

· Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
It helps new street riders (and some old street rider alike) if they understand that we turn a bike by leaning. Counter steering is an easy method that takes little effort to attain the lean required for any given turn radius and then the counter steering is neutralized and the front wheel tracks normally through the turn until we want to straighten out by reducing the lean/turn and then counter steering in the opposite direction is used again to upright the bike. Counter weighing with our body position can assist in leaning and used effectively by racers and once a rider gets a feel for when and how much weight and how quickly to load the inside peg and outside thigh counter steering takes even less effort, but nonetheless required to get the proper lean angle. We push forward on the inside bar to initiate the lean, when we reach the required lean for the radius of the turn we neutralize the push and allow the front wheel to track through the turn. Then we push forward on the outside bar to reduce the lean and upright the bike until going straight and then neutralize the bar pressure. Counter steering is easy and effective regardless of the size rider or bike. Counter weighting assist counter steering and the larger the rider and smaller the bike the more effective it is.
 

· Premium Member
2009 BMW R1200RT-Patrol
Joined
·
558 Posts
I would be a lousy instructor. After my Dad taught me to ride a bicycle by holding my bike seat upright and trotting behind until he could let go, I have had no real instruction on two wheeled machines.

I turn by wanting to. It happens. Those instructions would be nearly useless.

I tried to consciously push on the handlebar, but it just messed me up. I found it unsafely distracting to even think about it. I quickly switched back to looking at and thinking about where I wanted to go, and simply went there.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
One way to think of counter steering
is to imagine .... (wait, I need a picture because it will be worth 1000 words)

Okay, I can't find any picture on the Internet so later I'll take a couple of my own but what I want to suggest is a new rider or somebody who wants to consciously use counter steering can think of two triangles hugging the frame of the motorcycle:

one triangle extending from the back of the fuel tank to the right handlebar grip, along handlebar itself back to the center directly above the forks, and then back underneath the fuel tank along the bikes frame.


The other triangle extending from the back of the fuel tank to the left handlebar grips, and the handlebar itself forms the other side of the triangle, up to the center point above the forks and then the triangle goes straight through the centerline of the fuel tank.

Once you envision these two triangles,

imagine that each one has a certain amount of surface area --so many square inches or square centimeters.
So if you were to push one side of the handlebars forward, you are increasing the size of that triangle, giving it more surface area, and you are shrinking the other triangle similarly.

Then think of the newly-expanded triangular space as a "big opening" that you should lean over as if you were going to "fall into" that new hole you just created.

The combination of pushing forward
(imagining that you're creating a larger void or space on one side of the bike than the other)
and then you physically leaning that way as if you were about to fall into that "hole" is what causes your turn.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Then, the rider IMAGINES , or VISUALIZES,

Pushing one side of the handle bar forward
to make that side's triangle larger.

(We know that the handlebar will not actually turn, noticeably, and it will never look like this during countersteering,
But that's what the person should think about trying to make it do as they push.)

Bicycle Bicycle tire Bicycle frame Bicycle fork Tire



Now that the red triangle on the left side of the bike frame is the bigger space,
(bigger than the blue triangle)
the rider leans over, head and shoulders,
as if paused to fall into that hole.

Then the left lean and left turn starts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
Then, the rider IMAGINES , or VISUALIZES,
Well....that's one way to explain it. Or, simply, to turn left push the left bar forward, the bike leans left and turns left. To turn right push on the right bar forward, the bike leans right and turns right. Or, "push left turn left, push right turn right". Some folks will never understand the principle and will never care to, they just want to know what to do to get the results. A lot more folks appreciate a simple physics explanation then quickly forget and just keep the actions they need to do what they want. A very few need to know all the geometry and physics and fortunately for them there is a ton (maybe 2 tons) of information on the web written by accredited scholars with years of research and fancy diplomas who, will explain it in very complex and never ending numbers and angles. I know I have been down that rabbit hole a few times!!

Just a suggestion, you may want to avoid the "fall into that hole", part. Bikes like to turn, bikes like to go straight, bikes don't like to 'fall' and go crashy-smashy. Riders like falling and crashing even less than bikes do. The thought of falling into a hole while riding is scary to me!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
I am a long-time dirt bike rider, and never had any lessons on how to turn.
I can appreciate the advice for those learning how to turn, but I can't quite understand needing the advice in the first place, not to put anyone down.
 

· Registered
CB125T, EX250 commuter, Ninja 250 racebike, CBR250R(MC19), VF500F, CBR600RR, VFR750F
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
Pretty much everyone has experience with riding bicycles. However, due to their light weight and quick response, most people don't realize how countre-steering works on bicycles. With bigger heavier motorcycles, that experience doesn't carry across because now all of sudden, you have to make those countre-steering pushes much harder and deliberate. It doesn't "naturally turn" like a bicycle with little effort.
 
21 - 33 of 33 Posts
Top