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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Aside from the danger, the issue is that in places where lane splitting is permitted, the laws do not make it clear who has the right of way, the car or the motorcycle. It wouldn't be fair or even physically possible to make the cars have to give way to lane splitters because you cant see the splitters and they aren't in a travel lane. So then the motorcycle's insurance should pay every single time there is a lane splitting collision like from someone changing lanes in front of the splitter.

The fact that the laws are not clear in granting right of way, mainly because doing so would make clear the danger, makes it seem like its an illogical thing to allow on public roads.
 

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CB125T, EX250 commuter, Ninja 250 racebike, CBR250R(MC19), VF500F, CBR600RR, VFR750F
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Oh gosh, "right of way", isn't that what they told you to put on tombstone in driver's ed class? I never think about right of way, that's giving other drivers way too much power over me. And is only used after-the-fact for writing up citations and reports.

Bikers already have right-of-way in majority of crashes. 2/3rd of moto crashes are due to drivers pulling out or turning in front of bikers. We had right-of-way 100% in these cases, didn't prevent getting clobbered one bit.

Only thing I worry about is:

1. Is there space to fit?
2. What is rate-of-change of space? Is it increasing or decreasing?

That's it! If those numbers don't indicate safe passage, I don't so it.

Has kept me safe for 40-yrs of lane-splitting, regardless of who has right-of-way. Mistaken assumption with right-of-way is that they see you. Most of time, they do not. So cannot assume that you will get right-of-way when you actually have it. That will just get you killed.
 
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I think one disinction that's extremely important is looking at "shoulds" on paper, vs. "what's actually in front if your face". New riders always seem to have problems with potholes, traffic, unexpected things that wasn't covered in classroom. They can't cover every possible scenario in classroom.

But if you ride by "what's in front of your face" and manuveur based upon what's happening right now, you can deal with anything. Many riders look at horizon like driving car. No! Look at what's 10ft in front of you, POTHOLE! And what's 100-ft and 200-ft and back again. Then devise manuveurs for what's going to affect your path soon. Then it's easy to ride like this:



I spent 3-weeks here 2-yrs ago. Went all way north to south. Did not see a single crash entire time!!! Whereas back in Bay Area, I would see crash every single day on commute. Sometimes more than one! One on way out; one on way back. Sometimes, two on single trip... or more!!! :eek:

I think a lot of this has to do with thinking, "I have right-of-way damnit! I'm not budging!" Dangerous when you're on bike.
 

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93 Nighthawk CB750, 1995 Magna VF750CD, wifey 94 VF750CR
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Lane splitting was JUST legalized here. I've filtered at stoplights a few times- and I don't care if it pisses off the drivers, if i'm lane splitting I'm saving them time

(even the dodges (it's ALWAYS DODGES) that try to drag me when the light changes. sure, try it on the nighthawk, but the magna is a magna, I just have to keep both wheels onthe pavement, not actually worry about you keeping up with me.....)

Anyway, I'm saving THEM time, too. because there's less traffic around them.

I haven't had a real need to split in traffic, though I admit to occasionally weaving a bit on the passing. (again, not so much on the nighthawk- which is a bit more patient of a ride- the the magna has no lack of passing game)

I assume every car driver is out to get me. Either they are NOT driving a dodge and are blind and octogeneric, or they ARE driving a Dodge and are therefore high on meth and miller genuine draft.
So lane splitting doesn't do anything negative for me.

(note: DUIs are, in fact, noticeably higher among dodge (often truck) drivers. It's a Ram Thing, I guess)
(second note: it's REALLY REALLY funny how many dodge truck "cummins for life" drivers try to drag the magna at stop lights.)
 

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I'm neither for or against lane filtering within reason. It has no advantage for me for 90% of my riding, but I also may or may not support others that feel it is an advantage. Advantage for convenience, no support. Advantage for safety, may support. In Utah they argued it was for safety, in Montana they argued it was for safety, in Arizona they argued it was for safety. But, facing the truth 99 out of 100 riders I talk to, or listen to, it's because they don't want to wait in traffic and they feel they should cut the line. Maybe 5 out of the 100 will sooner or later, if the conversation continues long enough, mention safety.
Hello from Arizona-

cutting the line IS SAFETY. The further I am away from the tangle of people trying to jockey lane position to get 30 seconds ahead of everyone else at the next stop light, the better. Maybe if I was on a trail 125 it would be less of an advantage- but I just do NOT have to deal with the inherent dangers of cell phone lady with a hot latte trying to jink lanes to get ahead because she's 15 minutes late for work and having an argument with her ex gf on snapchat while driving... if i'm 1/4 mile ahead of her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Oh gosh, "right of way", isn't that what they told you to put on tombstone in driver's ed class? I never think about right of way, that's giving other drivers way too much power over me. And is only used after-the-fact for writing up citations and reports.
This is not true. Rules for right of way are what makes traveling on public roads reasonably safe and not chaotic. And thats what lane splitting with no right of way is - disorganized chaos. Remove the traffic controls and public roads will look like a demolition derby or a maybe a figure 8 race, our insurance premiums will skyrocket, and road rage murders will almost certainly go through the roof.

Instead of one guy turning in front of you, every single car will turn in front to you every single time if you do not have right of way traffic controls. You may not realize it, buy 99.999% of the time you are on the road your life is being saved by right of way traffic controls.
 

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Bikers already have right-of-way in majority of crashes. 2/3rd of moto crashes are due to drivers pulling out or turning in front of bikers. We had right-of-way 100% in these cases, didn't prevent getting clobbered one bit.
Would you post a reference link to the data you base your 2/3rd data?
 

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Hello from Arizona-

cutting the line IS SAFETY. The further I am away from the tangle of people trying to jockey lane position to get 30 seconds ahead of everyone else at the next stop light, the better. Maybe if I was on a trail 125 it would be less of an advantage- but I just do NOT have to deal with the inherent dangers of cell phone lady with a hot latte trying to jink lanes to get ahead because she's 15 minutes late for work and having an argument with her ex gf on snapchat while driving... if i'm 1/4 mile ahead of her.
So, you jump ahead at the light to get 30 seconds get to the next light, to again jump ahead 30 seconds to beat the lady drinking the latte just to run up to more ladies drinking latte's, and get to work 15 minutes early. You can call it safety, but it sounds more like you want to get ahead of the line. Your Magna sounds pretty fast. What kind of power modes have you added?
 

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This is not true. Rules for right of way are what makes traveling on public roads reasonably safe and not chaotic. And thats what lane splitting with no right of way is - disorganized chaos. Remove the traffic controls and public roads will look like a demolition derby or a maybe a figure 8 race, our insurance premiums will skyrocket, and road rage murders will almost certainly go through the roof.

Instead of one guy turning in front of you, every single car will turn in front to you every single time if you do not have right of way traffic controls. You may not realize it, buy 99.999% of the time you are on the road your life is being saved by right of way traffic controls.
Right-of-way rules effect almost all forms of travel be it by air, sea, or land (even somewhat in space). Sometimes it may seem everyone is out to kill motorcyclists, but that is far from the truth and facts. The vast majority of drivers and riders want to get to point A and return without a crash and most obey the right-of-way and show some courtesy. And, of course, there is a certain percentage that think right-of-way doesn't apply to them. I understand how some drivers may hate motorcyclist who jump the line and I doubt there is anything we can do to change their minds, just as there are riders who think they are saving drivers by jumping ahead and I doubt we are going to change their mind either.
 

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Not legal here. I have a deep rooted (and justified) mistrust of cagers while on the bike. My riding habits involve staying as far away from other vehicles as possible so I am not a likely candidate for lane splitting were it to be legalized. If I am caught in traffic I bail at the next off ramp and hit the back roads. If both the backroads and the highway are gonna be slow I'd rather be on the back roads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
So, you jump ahead at the light to get 30 seconds get to the next light, to again jump ahead 30 seconds to beat the lady drinking the latte just to run up to more ladies drinking latte's, and get to work 15 minutes early. You can call it safety, but it sounds more like you want to get ahead of the line. Your Magna sounds pretty fast. What kind of power modes have you added?
I dont see the benefits of filtering as anything to do with reducing traffic or getting somewhere faster or getting ahead. I see it solely as a safety move for the motorcycle so they don't get rear ended. That sort of accident seems to happen quite often and with the rider so unprotected and just sitting there ready to be squashed between the bumpers of two cars with no exit path, it just seems like a no brainer to allow them to not be the last vehicle in the line. Plus filtering does not present the dangers that splitting does because you're only creeping past stopped traffic.
 

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I used to filter, but not just to beat out the cars around me. Riding without cars/trucks in front of me allows me to better assess the road condition, obstacles, etc. and avoid problems. I've never done actual lane splitting because it always seemed too risky for me, and not living in CA, was not legal. When I traded in my Triumph for a Goldwing I pretty much stopped filtering. The Wing was just too wide to filter comfortably. Then when I traded in the Wing for a Spyder, obviously filtering became just a memory.
 

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I dont see the benefits of filtering as anything to do with reducing traffic or getting somewhere faster or getting ahead. I see it solely as a safety move for the motorcycle so they don't get rear ended. That sort of accident seems to happen quite often and with the rider so unprotected and just sitting there ready to be squashed between the bumpers of two cars with no exit path, it just seems like a no brainer to allow them to not be the last vehicle in the line. Plus filtering does not present the dangers that splitting does because you're only creeping past stopped traffic.
I agree. However, that is not the mentality of the major percentage of riders I read and talk to. For many lane filtering and lane splitting are the same. It appears that you and I may have the same meaning. Lane filtering is passing stopped cars at a slow speed (10-15 mph) pace to the head of the line if that is a stop light or perhaps a traffic stop to clear the road, etc. In Arizona and maybe the other 3 states it does not include the shoulder or median. Lane splitting is closer to travel between two lines of traffic while those lines are moving and that doesn't reduce the rearend crashes (although there may be a very small percentage of exceptions).

Rearend crashes to either a motorcycle or cage are frequent enough that it is easy to exaggerate the percentage, but certainly enough to be of concern and especially to motorcyclist. Filtering through 15 cars to the light however is far more than needed to avoid a possible rearend. Actually just moving between the cages for two or three would reduce these crashes probably by 80-90%. The issue with this is what happens to the motorcyclist when the traffic starts to move which is creating another safety issue for the rider. To avoid this secondary safety issue, lane filtering has to allow the motorcyclist to move to the head of the line and jump out in front. Or, they depend on cagers to be courteous to offer them the right-of-way and we know how that is going!

There are good habits some riders have developed who elect not to lane filter for one reason or the other and we don't have good data on those because they have avoided a rearend crash positioning themselves in or near a safety zone, watch their six and leave themselves an escape route. For me this isn't a perfect solution to avoid a rearend crash, but it does offer some avoidance, some of the time. It would seem logical that it does reduce the percentage. And, we have some data, but not good data on those who have avoided a rearend by lane filtering.

I don't think data from California is of great value as would be data from the other 3 states. If those states had collected good data before their lane filtering law took effect, through a period of time. For Arizona I would think that may take 2-3 years from now! I'm not against lane filtering (truth is like many riders I have done it legal or not) and I'm as sensitive as any other rider about being rearended. However, lane splitting (by my definition) I feel is unwarranted.
 

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Im a chronic lane splitter, who has nothing to lose. If you dont lane split, you might as well drive a cage. I would ride my R7 less aggressively then brah though.
Brah says, "Oh, somebody left their step down, that could kill someone", as he whizzies by, that is some funny sh!!t.
 

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I'm pro lane-splitting for convenience and for safety reasons. Not having to sit in traffic in Southern California was an absolute god-send, it's literally life-changing in the sense that people in SoCal won't even bother to go across town because of how long it'll take. I had the freedom to go where I wanted when I wanted, because I could filter through traffic. I don't think it's acceptable to endanger other people by riding recklessly but I think there's plenty of space and room in stop and go traffic in SoCal and other high-density areas to justify it.
 

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it's pretty obvious here who isn't capable of 'threading the needle' and trying to force that view on all others .

The idiot on the R7 , wow . I hope he has good medical insurance .

I lane split and filter at stop lights, it's always the Motocycle operators responsibility to ride safely and not rip through other traffic at twice the speed .

I've been lane splitting for over 50 years now and still do it ~ I don't ever zoom past other traffic be it moving or stopped .

I've had @$$holes open their doors on me too, don't ever think "not me, never" .

We still have problems with idiots pouring oil on tight curves where Moto riders like to ride .
 
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