With the Harley factory just 40 miles from my place, it's an important part of the local economy. They pay good wages and don't hire illegal aliens. They are hardly the flock with most young riders (which is most riders) buying asian iron. Polaris is giving Harley stiff competition with their American made VICTORY as well. The advertising is a sign of falling sales which has hit all the automotive sectors because of job outsourcing and other dismal economic factors. In My Opinion
Ironic Harley Commercial
G
Have you seen the new Harley commercial with the black sheep leaving their respective flocks and running up and down main street of a town that looks a little like Sturgis? I think it's funny, because at 360,000 bikes a year, Harley has become the flock. If you want to be the black sheep now, you have to ride anything but a Harley.
As an aside, now that they're advertising, does it mean that supply has caught up with demand, and prices will start heading back to reasonable?
As an aside, now that they're advertising, does it mean that supply has caught up with demand, and prices will start heading back to reasonable?
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It wasn't my intention to say anything bad about Harley, I apologize if it came across that way. They've done a brilliant job of marketing and branding their product, and having toured the York factory, they also have a manufacturing system that's second to none. My point was that at 360K bikes a year, buying HD no longer makes you unique or someone who goes against the grain. It's actually brilliant marketing on HD's part that they still have that image.
The only reason they're not bringing in the young riders is their prices. And if, as I suspect, they're nearing market saturation, and again, that's not a bad thing, just a reality of doing business, then the prices will come down and a new market can be tapped. Hell, I'd be on a Dyna Convertible if I had the $$ for it, which is why I'm hopeful that the prices may drop.
The only reason they're not bringing in the young riders is their prices. And if, as I suspect, they're nearing market saturation, and again, that's not a bad thing, just a reality of doing business, then the prices will come down and a new market can be tapped. Hell, I'd be on a Dyna Convertible if I had the $$ for it, which is why I'm hopeful that the prices may drop.
Don't forget, that as of next year, both Victory and Harley will have an old competitor back. Indian has found a new home in Kings Mountain, SC and according to their latest news release ( Sept. 13 / 06 ) the new parent Corp. is pumping another $30 Million into the ole war horse. The irony is that the same British company (Stellican Ltd.) that resurected the old OMC defunked Chris Craft boat company and brought it back to it's old luster, is the same outfit that now owns Indian. Oh yeah, their using their own Indian Motor. It even has the carb./ inj. on the correct side. Nothin like more competition too level the playing field and hopefully, level out the pricing as well. If nothing else.....it should prove to be interesting.
G
Harley Promo
Yes, I remember seeing that commercial. I don't think Harley will drop its prices until buyers will no longer pay them. In Phoenix last summer guys were paying well above MSRP – with no relief in sight. Who knows what this coming summer will bring. I'm very interested though as I'll be buying then.
I like the Harley commercial with the grandad and young boy. His grandad told him he hadn't bought his Harley so he could pay to have the house sided. So true...
Yes, I remember seeing that commercial. I don't think Harley will drop its prices until buyers will no longer pay them. In Phoenix last summer guys were paying well above MSRP – with no relief in sight. Who knows what this coming summer will bring. I'm very interested though as I'll be buying then.
I like the Harley commercial with the grandad and young boy. His grandad told him he hadn't bought his Harley so he could pay to have the house sided. So true...
G
The fact that Harley is actually advertising is a sign that the market is slowing, and prices won't be as absurd as they have been. We're past the year and a half waiting lists, and I've even seen dealers advertising discounts. You have to give them credit for being a textbook example of brand management.Yes, I remember seeing that commercial. I don't think Harley will drop its prices until buyers will no longer pay them. In Phoenix last summer guys were paying well above MSRP – with no relief in sight. Who knows what this coming summer will bring. I'm very interested though as I'll be buying then.
I like the Harley commercial with the grandad and young boy. His grandad told him he hadn't bought his Harley so he could pay to have the house sided. So true...
I wish them luck...Indian tried for a comeback in the 70's with a line of small bikes made in Taiwan (if I remember rightly) up to about 125cc I think. They spent a lot of money, set up a dealer network and went belly up. It takes more than a name...it takes a quality machine. What they won't do is bring back the old INDIAN CHIEF exactly as it was back in the 50's... then improve on that. Coming out with a completely new engine means years of problems, redesigns and mistakes though it might look great to start with. If it makes it, it would have made it without the Indian name.Don't forget, that as of next year, both Victory and Harley will have an old competitor back. Indian has found a new home in Kings Mountain, SC and according to their latest news release ( Sept. 13 / 06 ) the new parent Corp. is pumping another $30 Million into the ole war horse. The irony is that the same British company (Stellican Ltd.) that resurected the old OMC defunked Chris Craft boat company and brought it back to it's old luster, is the same outfit that now owns Indian. Oh yeah, their using their own Indian Motor. It even has the carb./ inj. on the correct side. Nothin like more competition too level the playing field and hopefully, level out the pricing as well. If nothing else.....it should prove to be interesting.
G
Victory has been the only startup that has made any headway, and that was only with the huge corporate financial backing of Polaris enabling them to overcome early mis-steps.I wish them luck...Indian tried for a comeback in the 70's with a line of small bikes made in Taiwan (if I remember rightly) up to about 125cc I think. They spent a lot of money, set up a dealer network and went belly up. It takes more than a name...it takes a quality machine. What they won't do is bring back the old INDIAN CHIEF exactly as it was back in the 50's... then improve on that. Coming out with a completely new engine means years of problems, redesigns and mistakes though it might look great to start with. If it makes it, it would have made it without the Indian name.
I guess Triumph did a good job also, but I'm not as familiar with the specifics there.
I don't think that job outsourcing has anything to do with falling sales (I am not so sure that sales are falling across all automotive sectors either... maybe moving from one type of vehicle to another, but one might easily argue that there are other factors such as gas prices rather than job outsourcing as the culprit); how do the two tie together? That and the remark about illegal aliens sound more like ethnocentric frustration than a valid argument (and no, I am not an illegal alien... just calling it like I see it).The advertising is a sign of falling sales which has hit all the automotive sectors because of job outsourcing and other dismal economic factors. In My Opinion
I can see your point Uesque, and I don't have any empirical data to support my contention, other than falling within the demographic myself, but my opinion is that young people don't buy Harleys because they don't identify with them so they don't see the value in overpaying for a bike (assuming they even have the money). IMO, Harleys are ridden by old diehards, or aging baby boomers who suddenly all "live to ride/ride to live" (yeah, right).The only reason they're not bringing in the young riders is their prices.
I am more interested in bikes that are fun to ride, and if Japanese steel is better and more affordable then that is where my dollars go. I actually like riding motorcycles that are fun to ride, not motorcycles that have a certain name brand.
Harley Davidson has bikes in a factory in China, conversely foreign parts are used on just about every American vehicle that rolls on American roads... it is hard to split hairs on just what "buying American" means anymore. Just my opinion.
I remember reading a few times throughout the years about the rebirth and death of the Indian name. If I am not mistaken, their latest demise had more to do with investment money that dried up once the stakeholders got scared by a flat start. It didn't necessarily have to do with bike build(unless they started up and failed again since the last time I checked). And, at the risk of offending (which I hope this isn't seen as offensive), Harley hasn't exactly been considered a dependable bike to ride over the years. I know HD owners who will be the first to admit it. So it is safe to say that m/c companies don't necessarily fail because their bikes aren't the most dependable. At least not in the case of HD, who got a shot in the arm by the boomers.I wish them luck...Indian tried for a comeback in the 70's with a line of small bikes made in Taiwan (if I remember rightly) up to about 125cc I think. They spent a lot of money, set up a dealer network and went belly up. It takes more than a name...it takes a quality machine. What they won't do is bring back the old INDIAN CHIEF exactly as it was back in the 50's... then improve on that. Coming out with a completely new engine means years of problems, redesigns and mistakes though it might look great to start with. If it makes it, it would have made it without the Indian name.
But, I would venture to say that baby boomers are going to get older and older and lose interest in HD bikes, and I think that the company knows this. The original Harley buyers don't number high enough to float the company by themselves, which is why HD made the smart move to expand globaly. There are billions of people in China. If Harley can get their name to be as popular as Coke (hence the advertising campaign) they might find a new demographic overseas to help sustain sales. A lot of foreign countries love American branding. The days of an HD owner being a "lone wolf" are long gone. And Indian and others stand a chance at putting their feet back in the pool if they can build bikes that find their niche in the market too. Of course I could be completely wrong (it definitely won't be the first or last time).
I agree totally. Capitalism is competition. Competition is as American as it gets!Nothin like more competition too level the playing field and hopefully, level out the pricing as well. If nothing else.....it should prove to be interesting.
We end up with better product and better prices.G
Ethnocentric is a harsh term in this case. If he had used the term immigrant, then you would have a point, but he's referring to those who have entered this country illegally. Maico(and CB750 and I), live in an area whose economy was built by legal immigrants, those who followed the rules to come here as our own ancestors did, are welcome, and deserve everything they've earned.I don't think that job outsourcing has anything to do with falling sales (I am not so sure that sales are falling across all automotive sectors either... maybe moving from one type of vehicle to another, but one might easily argue that there are other factors such as gas prices rather than job outsourcing as the culprit); how do the two tie together? That and the remark about illegal aliens sound more like ethnocentric frustration than a valid argument (and no, I am not an illegal alien... just calling it like I see it).
I know the US has an imperialistic reputation worldwide, but that's the result of a handful of politicians, the majority of us don't think that way.
Keep in mind, I am just sharing my opinion, just as everyone else is. Also, ethnocentrism isn't a disparaging term. I wasn't being rude when I said it. But thanks for your reply.
At one point in time if you rode a Harley you were the black sheep. Don't get me wrong there are still black sheep Harley riders out there but generally they are the ones who took a stock bike and did all the custom work themselves and ride it often enough it gets miles on it. Those are the Harley riders I like to get to know. Then again anyone who takes something anyone in the world can own and turns it into something of their own creation is cool in my book be it from Japan or America or where ever.
I don't own a Harley. I can't say I never will though. Eventually I'll adopt one up somehow that's kind of old and beat and needing a new home.
Been to the York Harley Open House, on my Virago. Believe me I felt like a minority there.
I'm not one for outsourcing or illegal immigrants being I have seen the place I work at go from 1200 employees to right around 300 due to outsourcing. That sucks. If a person wants to live here and they go about it the right way and go through the whole immigration process then that's fine by me and I welcome them to our country.
I don't own a Harley. I can't say I never will though. Eventually I'll adopt one up somehow that's kind of old and beat and needing a new home.
Been to the York Harley Open House, on my Virago. Believe me I felt like a minority there.
I'm not one for outsourcing or illegal immigrants being I have seen the place I work at go from 1200 employees to right around 300 due to outsourcing. That sucks. If a person wants to live here and they go about it the right way and go through the whole immigration process then that's fine by me and I welcome them to our country.
+1 My wife is frustrated that I already have too many side projects that take up space in the house and garage, but at some point I want to build up a bike with my oldest son before he moves out of the house in 5 or 6 years.Eventually I'll adopt one up somehow that's kind of old and beat and needing a new home.
Same here. It is frustrating. Especially the customer service and tech support fields, which all seem to be going overseas. But I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if I had to worry about keeping such a business alive. Its a tough spot to be in I suppose.I'm not one for outsourcing or illegal immigrants being I have seen the place I work at go from 1200 employees to right around 300 due to outsourcing. That sucks.
G
That's one of the great things about the US, is the ability to express your opinion and openly debate without fear of reprisal. And being able to discuss reasonably without hostility is why I like this site.Keep in mind, I am just sharing my opinion, just as everyone else is. Also, ethnocentrism isn't a disparaging term. I wasn't being rude when I said it. But thanks for your reply.
You right, but I think they (HD) want to project an imagine of standing apart.
G
Not only want to project that image, they do a damn good job of it. It's the classic case study of brand management.You right, but I think they (HD) want to project an imagine of standing apart.
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