The momentum of the bike makes it pretty much impossible to stall the bike as you described - don't worry about it. Momentum will force the engine to turn when the clutch is out unless there is a serious and sudden mechanical failure.

That said, ease the clutch out - no real reason to dump it. If you're new to riding just focus on and practice the shifting without blipping the throttle. Roll off, clutch, shift, clutch.

Have fun! I'm sure some other folks will be along to chime in, too.

 

........... Roll off, clutch, shift, clutch................

I would modify this just slightly........"Roll off, clutch, shift, clutch/throttle.

I try and avoid forcing my bike into a lower gear, when the speed of the bike is higher than that gear is designed to handle. Good way to cause some damage.

Anticipating the slowing down process in normal driving situations, is a big help here. Gradual downshifting can in fact BE "gradual" if you see ahead and start your deceleration early enough. You don't prove "cool" by being fast and loud.

"Cool" is the guy who DOESN'T have to show his skills, but knows how to use them, and knows that his machine CAN do what he wants.

There's an old joke about an old Ram and a young one, standing on top of a hill. The young one says to the old one, "Hey! Look at all those female sheep down there!! Let's race down there and get us one!!"

The old Ram looks at the young one, who's eyes are about to pop out of his head as he paces back-n-forth and says, "Why don't we WALK down, and get em ALL!!"

When you release the clutch, after you have clicked your way into the gear you have chosen, LISTEN to your engine. You'll know if you need some throttle to compensate. The motor will tell you.

USE THE FORCE, LUKE SKYWALKER..........



-Soupy

 

If the gear is to low for the speed, and the clutch is dumped, the rear wheel could momentarily lock up, causing a loss of control.

Downshifting a single gear at a time and gently easing out the clutch will avoid any mishaps like that.

I wouldn't worry about blipping the throttle for a super fast downshift. It's not a race, and most do it just to make noise to be truthful.

 

If the gear is to low for the speed, and the clutch is dumped, the rear wheel could momentarily lock up, causing a loss of control.

That's very true - make sure the gear you're selecting matches the speed you're going.

 

I truly appreciate the replies guys.

1. So, could someone tell me in details (yes, I am a total newbie ) How to downshift step by step? I will give an example to make it easier. I am in 3rd gear. I see red lights ahead. What do I do step by step?

2. So my definition of engine braking and rev matching are both correct, no?

3. Is it ok to go down multiple gears at a time? Someone told me I can be like a rocket if I do this, and nobody knows how scary this sounds to a beginner....

Just need help in details on how to downshift properly and safely, that is all...

Gonna go sleep now, see you guys again tomorrow!!

 

Stopping from third gear:
Release the throttle while pulling in the clutch. Press down on the shift lever. Ease the clutch out smoothly. Repeat from 2nd to 1st before the stop.

Your definition was correct.

You can shift down more than one gear at a time by holding in the clutch and pressing down and releasing on the shift lever as many times as it's needed to get to the gear you want. Take care that you are paying attention to which hear you are in, however, as being in the wrong gear for the speed of travel can have bad results.

 

If you are approaching a red light, pull in the clutch and downshift as if you expect to let out the clutch, but don't do it. As your speed drops even more, again downshift with the clutch still in. If the light turns green your objective is to be in the right gear to just let out the clutch and go. The brakes are for stopping, the engine and clutch are for going. Brake pads are dirt cheap but engines and transmissions can be very expensive. Use your brakes for slowing or stopping.

 

Everyone, I truly appreciate the advice and help given. I apologize but I still have a few questions that I am not sure yet, and I thought it is best to ask here to avoid potential dangers on the road.

1. Dodsfall mentioned:

"If the gear is to low for the speed, and the clutch is dumped, the rear wheel could momentarily lock up, causing a loss of control."

Dodsfall, may I ask that you elaborate more on this? What exactly do you mean and what is the solution to it?

2. Secondly, Dodsfall also mentioned

"Stopping from third gear:
Release the throttle while pulling in the clutch. Press down on the shift lever. Ease the clutch out smoothly. Repeat from 2nd to 1st before the stop."

Lets break this down step by step as this is pretty much my number one confusion.

Release the throttle while pulling in the clutch - Check.
Press down on the shift lever. - Check.
Ease the clutch out smoothly. - Ok, but do I just release the clutch smoothly all the way without having to do anything with the throttle? Or do I have to add a little throttle?

 

"If the gear is to low for the speed, and the clutch is dumped, the rear wheel could momentarily lock up, causing a loss of control."

Dodsfall, may I ask that you elaborate more on this? What exactly do you mean and what is the solution to it?


Ease the clutch out smoothly. - Ok, but do I just release the clutch smoothly all the way without having to do anything with the throttle? Or do I have to add a little throttle?

Make sure you are not going too fast for the gear you are shifting down to and ease out the clutch instead of dumping the clutch.

You don't have to add any throttle as long as you are simply slowing down to a stop. You may have to add some throttle if you are only slowing down a bit but are continuing to ride but in a lower gear.

One thing that I failed to mention is that the brakes should be used at least enough to light the brake light when downshifting. Downshifting slows the motorcycle and this will allow traffic behind you to see that you are slowing. It's a good habit to get into when riding on the street.

 

Thanks people. Guess I just need more practice now.

I love practicing, but the fear of me locking the back/front wheel up....or stalling the bike while going at a decent speed, etc....I admit as a beginner, these things truly scare me. I don't wanna fly over the bike and die:frown:

Is it even possible for the bike to come to a complete, 100% stop when going at, say, 30 or so KM/hour?

I just need to know some of the things that can cause potential dangers such as: releasing clutch too quickly, braking so hard that my wheels lock up, downshifting to a lower gear but the engine is too fast, causing a loss of balance etc.

 

Don't be so afraid. If your front wheel locks up, you just release the front brake. then reapply if needed. Even in an emergency stop you don't want to just grab a whole handful of front brake. A good steady progressive grip on the brake is the best way to do things. You'll get to know your bike and what its capable of doing. If your rear wheel locks up, DO NOT release the back brake until the back tire comes back inline with the front. You will still have control of the bike with the back wheel locked up, but you will lose control if you release the brake while the back wheel is not inline with the front.

 

The good news is that the rider actually has total control over all of those issues mentioned.

I would recommend taking the MSF BRC course. You will get expert instruction on these and many other things and get to try it all out for yourself.

 

Rengo, where are you from?

 

Thank you guys.

I am from Australia, I have passed my learner permit course. Basically I can use the L plate now and ride legally. To my surprise, they did not mention the word "downshifting" a single time during the L course. Which is why I am asking on forums...haha

Well, just gotta practice I guess... if I fall I guess so be it..

EDIT: Guys, I have been watching tutorial videos on Youtube, most of which are from America. Apparently in America you have to carry your insurance while riding also? This confuses me because here in Australia, as far as I know you only have to carry your license, not insurance...Now I am confused lol

 

To my surprise, they did not mention the word "downshifting" a single time during the L course.

You did the entire course in 1st gear?

 

Riding a motorcycle is more mental than physical. A little fear is a good thing, it keeps you from being over confident. But too much fear can be a bad thing too. I was afraid of taking one hand off the handlebars, but I've been working on it over the past week, and now it seems easy. Before, I was afraid to try it, but now that I've been doing it, it's not as bad as I thought.

When I first started to ride, I accepted the risks involved with it. I knew there was a strong possibility that I could die. I've accepted it. I have a higher chance of dying from Breast cancer, as it has taken all the women in my family. I'd rather die on my bike.

 

No, they told us to go to 2nd gear after a while, without telling us HOW to do it. But then again upshifting is nice easy and simple. Downshifting though....

EDIT: So guys, just to confirm, tell me if this process is correct if I want to come to a stop from say, 5th gear.

1. Slow down as required/brake and release throttle.
2. Pull clutch in.
3. downshift as many times as possible, which means I will be in 1st gear while still going at....something like 60 KMs or so? But this should be ok right, since I still hold the clutch?
4. Continue with step 3 and brake as necessary to adjust the speed to slow down.
5. Stop.

Is that ok? I am concerned with number 3 though. What happens if I let go of the clutch, say, when I am in 3rd gear? Will it lock up the bike and propel me forward?

 

No it is not OK to just downshift. You really want to always have the gears aligned with your present speed so that you can let off the clutch and go. If you downshift too far you can damage the transmission even if you keep the clutch pulled because the gears are still moving even if they are not connected to the engine.

 

Uhmmmmmm......?

 

Step three is not a wise way to do it. Having the transmission in a low gear at a high speed is a recipe for disaster. If the clutch is released in such a condition, the best that could happen is the rear tire lock up. The engine could also be destroyed due to over-revving or loss of control can cause a crash.

It's best to shift down one gear at a time and keep the transmission in the proper gear for the speed of travel. It's not really difficult with about an hour of practice shifting up and down.

Again, some more formal training may help build the confidence needed to shift properly.

 

You all are over thinking this a making it confusing. Down shifting is the same as up shifting in revers. As you slow down, down shift one gear at a time. Ease the clutch out and as you get slower, down shift again. It's not that hard. There is however a level of engine braking like that so some may think they are going to cause their machine to melt or explode or wear out. It's bull. Practice makes a lot of difference in how well you down shift but doing it one gear at a time won't cause a problem and you will be ready to throttle up if needed.

 

ok, my turn at 'splaining.

Let's say you're cruising along at 35mph.

In second gear you would be at 5000 rpms

In third gear you're at 3500 rpms.

I'm making these #'s up, but they'll work just fine as an example.

You see a need to slow down.

You pull in the clutch, and roll off the throttle. Engine rpms drop to idle --- 1500 rpms. Bike begins to slow even without applying brakes, etc.

You press the shift lever with your foot and move the gearbox from 3rd to 2nd.

If you have to FORCE it into second, it's trying to tell you...YOURE MOVING TO FAST FOR ME TO GO INTO SECOND GEAR STUPID! Same as an automobile transmission... it'll fight you...

so you've got it in 2nd now...

At this point you can do one of several things.

"Dump" the clutch, release it quickly, and FORCE the engine to come up to 5000 rpms or thereabouts. This will provide MAXIMUM engine braking.

You may skid the rear tire, or throw yourself over the handlebars if you're riding a bike with a big enough motor.

#2. You can GENTLY let the clutch out and drag the motor up to 5000 rpms. By now, the bike has actually slowed to 30-32 mph all on it's own, so you'll only go up to say, 4500 rpms.

#3. You can simultaneously twist the throttle and rev the motor to AROUND 4500 rpms AS you let out the clutch, matching the engine speed to the speed the transmission "expects" it to be spinning out. This is the proper technique.

#3a. You can undershoot, only rev it to around 3500 rpms, but it'll STILL be a much more gentle deceleration than dumping the clutch. Need more practice.

#4. You can simultaneously twist the throttle and rev the motor to 5500 rpms, let out the clutch, thereby making a unique sound called "flaring" that tells everyone around you....NEED MORE PRACTICE!

Unlike a car, you can't "double clutch" a motorcycle transmission, that is SHIFT completely out of gear into neutral, let out the clutch, blip the throttle to get the transmission gears spinning faster, thereby making it EASIER to shift, pull the clutch in again, and then shift into a lower gear, let out the clutch.

The only time you could CONCEIVABLY double clutch a motorcycle gearbox would be on the 2:1 shift because you actually move through "true" neutral going between those two gears.

So a few sidenotes: My buddies BMW paddle-shifting automatically "blips" the throttle in neutral when downshifting.... damnest thing ever having the car do it FOR ya...

When he first started driving it I thought, "Gee, somebody finally taught Pete how to shift!"

On my CBR929 "liter" bike, I had to roll OFF the throttle even more gently than I could roll ON it to avoid backspinning the rear tire and breaking traction! I either matched rpm's correctly downshifting or wondered if I was going over the bars.

So go make a few motorcycle friends, go ride, and downshifting will become 2nd nature to you within a week or so.

The main reason for downshifting is because it's fun when it's done right, sounds great, puts you in the right gear to take off again, and NOT to save wear and tear on the brake pads, etc. Brake pads are CHEAP compared to engine/clutch repairs, but if DONE PROPERLY downshifting does NOT put any excess stress on the motor/clutch. Use your ears!

 

wadenelson I appreciate your help friend, thank you for that.

You yourself said that throttle blipping/rev matching IS the proper technique.

Therefore I will practice throttle blipping then. I understand learners should not do that, but for me, rev matching is just adding 1 step (blipping the throttle) from engine braking.

I do have a few questions about proper rev matching techniques though, so I ask for permission from the mods like Dodsfall if I can open a new thread focusing on rev matching. I just feel this one is just downshifting in general, and I would love to make a new thread with rev matching as the only focus.

 

Rev matching is the proper technique.

"Blipping" the throttle is different. It's something you do in neutral, when you're "double clutching" an automotive transmission, or if you ride a bike with little or no muffler and want to annoy the general public, show off, etc.

Or to keep a poorly tuned engine from stalling. If you put a wild enough camshaft in a motor, open pipes, etc. bike OR car, it may idle so rough that constantly "blipping" it is the only way to keep it ready for take-off.

 

What gibberish.... If you weren't confused before, you should be now. This is like reading instructions to install a light bulb. The guy will figure it out soon enough.. It ain't brain surgery..

 

... It ain't brain surgery..

Not yet, but it may lead to that! :71baldboy:

...when you pull in the clutch, you "blip" the throttle/rev the throttle quite high before down shifting and releasing the clutch. Is this correct guys?
...

If you decide to practice that technique please post a video. And, make sure the audio is on so we can hear the screaming!

Downshifting like that on my bike would launch you like a rocket.

 

I'd pull up a chair to watch that...

 

Welcome Rengo! I see you have been given a hundred different sets of opinions, as it should be. Everyone rides a little bit differently. As long as you are safe and don't develop dangerous habits, you will be fine.

I think it is interesting that your fear is being thrown over the handlebars. My fear with riding a street bike was always that l would choose a bike too powerful for me, grab a handful of throttle and it would wheelie up and throw me off the back. While opposite in nature, our fears have done the proper thing to both of us: told us to proceed with caution. I bought an SV650 a couple of weeks ago and it is a perfect fit. I have yet to be launched off the rear end of it

I think that what you should do is what you have said yourself throughout this thread...go ride. It doesn't matter where, although a place that is not so busy would be ideal. One thing that is common here in Seattle for new riders is to go to a shopping mall parking lot after it closes and ride around while there is no traffic.

Another thing that would be really helpful would be if you have an opportunity to ride in the dirt somewhere. Many of us started on a dirt bike of some sort. The advantage of the dirt is that you can really learn how to ride and handle the bike with an exponentially lower level of risk...you aren't likely to come across many cars or trucks when you are riding in the dirt. If you crash, it is generally just your pride that hurts. In nearly 30 years of dirt riding the worst thing that has ever happened to me is a bruised tailbone from a crash on a quad. Usually it is just a matter of picking the bike up and getting back on.

There may also be classes available in your area. We have a lot of different classes here, through different organizations. If you have a local racetrack they usually have some sort of organized classes, and they aren't all for experienced riders. A lot of them are for the exact sort of thing you are talking about...you have an instructor that takes the time to teach you the proper ways to shift, brake, turn, anticipate, swerve, etc.

I hope this helps my friend

 

Another thing that would be really helpful would be if you have an opportunity to ride in the dirt somewhere. Many of us started on a dirt bike of some sort. The advantage of the dirt is that you can really learn how to ride and handle the bike with an exponentially lower level of risk...you aren't likely to come across many cars or trucks when you are riding in the dirt. If you crash, it is generally just your pride that hurts. In nearly 30 years of dirt riding the worst thing that has ever happened to me is a bruised tailbone from a crash on a quad. Usually it is just a matter of picking the bike up and getting back on.

Sorry to say it but this is terrible advice. If I ride in the dirt the way I ride on the street I get to enjoy dumping my bike in under 30 seconds. Braking on the street and on dirt are completely different. On the street most of your braking is done with the front brake. In the dirt the exact opposite is true. If you use much front brake you wash out the front wheel and go down.

 

Try not to overthink things. I find myself overthinking, and I end up stalling the bike out. I sometimes get nervous when another bike comes up behind me at a stop light. I tend to get stage fright and I start thinking too much about the clutch and the throttle, and stall it out and really make myself look the fool..had I just done it like I always done, I'd have sailed away without a care in the world...

You'll get to know your engine sounds and will understand when it's time to shift up or shift down. If it starts to lug, you downshift, if it starts to whine, you upshift. Just try to make sure you keep the speed and the gear correct. You don't want to come to a red light still doing 40 mph, and drop her down to 1st gear cause if that light changes, you are going to want to just let go of the clutch and that's not only not safe, but you can damage your bike.

 

Try not to overthink things.

That's probably the best advice. It all sounds complicated, but while there is a lot going on with your hands and feet, it becomes second nature in a very short amount of time.

 

Hey Zippy...l just noticed that you live in Connecticut. My girlfriend and l will be out there next month for a wedding in Brooklyn, and then we are taking a week and driving through New England. Any suggestions on great places to go?

 

Next month will be great for fall foliage, where all the leaves on the trees change colors. You will see alot of breathtaking scenery if you stay in the country areas. Vermont and New Hampshire have the best views. I love to see the covered bridges in the fall in vermont. Vermont, near Brattleboro, has a restaurant, if it is still there, called the Skyline Restaurant, home of the best apple cinnamon pancakes, IMO and the view while you are sitting at your table, is absolutely breathtaking.

Mass has a Butterfly garden, not sure of what town, I can try and find out for you, but it's so nice. Its a building and you have all kinds of butterflies flying around, landing on you, well, you step on a couple here and there but it was pretty neat.

There's lots of muesums and such. Mystic seaport gets alot of visitors.