Anything's possible, but buyers would want the cheapest possible and then complain bitterly when it broke.

 

Why do you want 6th?

The DR has a very wide power band so I'm not sure the issue...are you looking for an "Over Drive" or is there a serious flat spot caused by poor gearing?

 

I don't personally own a DRZ. I'm simply using it as an example.

Most people who own DRZs say that it is very "busy" at highway speeds, so I suppose an overdrive gear would be what's missing. Though why do motorcycle manufacturers only sell motorcycles with 4-6 spds (usually) when bicycles are now easily in the range of 21 and even 28 spd bikes and all it takes it a few more sprockets and a sprocket selector.

Is there any particular reason that they dont do this?

 

I'd really like to ask; how is this even possible that bikes can be short on gears?

The bikes aren't defective.....it is the RIDERS who need some adjustment. :biggrin:

Motorcycles generally are designed just fine for the purpose intended.

So what is your complaint exactly; why do you think you "need" a 6th gear ??

Most will even be just fine when they are used to slightly exceed the ideal riding conditions.......like cruising at 90 MPH all day......but the rider has to get used to the "buzzy" sound.

If you had a 6th gear, you probably would be crabbing because you have no power in 6th. :wink:

Do you have a tach ??
Bikes can generally operate all day long at about 70% of redline with no harmful affects at all. If you are cruising at more than 70% of redline......then you probably need to slow down a bit.

 

6th gear.....you bet

I had a DRZ before I got my VTX and at 70 mph that sucker was winding out pretty good. A 6th gear might have help with fuel mileage. But after I got the VTX, that puppy definitely needed one more gear. I was always trying for another gear! Now I have a 6 speed Harley and it purrs at 70mph and still be able to throttle up to pass someone. So I'd say Harley must have seen the writing on the wall so to speak.

 

I had a DRZ before I got my VTX and at 70 mph that sucker was winding out pretty good. A 6th gear might have help with fuel mileage. But after I got the VTX, that puppy definitely needed one more gear. I was always trying for another gear! Now I have a 6 speed Harley and it purrs at 70mph and still be able to throttle up to pass someone. So I'd say Harley must have seen the writing on the wall so to speak.

I ride a 2007 VTX1800t1 and need to be above 50mph to shift to 5th. I cruise very comfortably at 75-80. What VTX did you have?

On topic, unless you just enjoy working the clutch and gear shift, 5 speeds are awesome. People that assume more gears equal greater overdrive remind me of the movie Spinal Tap where Nigels Marshall stack went to 11. 6th gears, IMHO are for high performance sport bikes that could use more choices for more racing environments. In a cruiser, its a sales tool gimmick.

 

I think you may have a basic misconception of how a motorcycle's transmission works v. a bicycles.

Bicycles have multiple sprockets from which to choose--that's how their transmission works.

Motorcycles gears are inside the transmission and work like a cars.

I own a DRZ400SM and I put a smaller sprocket on the back to gear it up a little--meaning it doesn't rev quite as high at 70mph as would a stock one. Stunters, on the other hand, add teeth to the rear sprocket to increase low end grunt--at the expense of top end speed. Otherwise you need to add gears INSIDE the gearbox which demands engineering, parts and space.

Make sense?

 

Many years ago I owned one as well and loved my 2003 DRZ400s. Max speed on it was 90mph (down hill in full tuck) but the low end response was decent. Great all around bike. I added one tooth to the rear spocket and had 80% off road tires (still street legal) on it. I will say that it is a tall bike and being 5.7 tall I had to add lowering links to it and still couldn't flat foot it at stops.

The biggest downfall of the DRZ is wheen you take it off road and dump it. The shift and brake pedal always puntured the cases on both sides when it went over. It got expensive.

 

Damn, I have a 6 speed in my bike and I always try for another gear, usually cause I lose count on the the gear I am in, but still I want 7 dammit.:biggrin:

A lot of V8's back in the 50's up to the 80's only had 3 or 4 speed gear boxes, they added an over drive for gas mileage. Your top gear in most bikes and cars these is an over drive gear, not designed for power, but to keep the RPM's down to increase mileage. If you are at the top of your tach all the time, maybe you need to slow down a bit if it bothers you, or get used to the sound and realize that when you are that high in your range the only out you have is to slow down.

 

Your top gear in most bikes and cars these is an over drive gear,

Cars and trucks, yes; bikes not so much.

Anything with an engine less that 1200 cc's or so probably does NOT have a true overdrive top gear.

When was the last time you knew of anybody shopping for a bike and GAS MILEAGE was the primary concern ?? It happens but not often.

 

I don't really have any complaints or anything; I'm simply wondering as to why when manufacturer's have the ability to make "gearboxes" with over 10 gears; I'm confused as to why they don't when they would be useful.

Perhaps the Honda example was a good example. The "problem" (and use the word lightly as there isnt really a problem at all; just an improvement in my eyes) is not that every damn bike needs 10 gears: 1L, 1H, 2L, 2H, 3L, 3H, and so on, but moreso that they need those last one or two gears.

Again, back to my example of the DRZ as it's just such a good case. Owners (as seen on this thread) are very visibly seen complaining about the lack of an OD gear.

Why wouldn't Suzuki say "Oh hey. Next year, lets throw in a sixth gear." or, why wouldnt an aftermarket supplier say "Hey. DRZ owners want an OD gear so highway cruising isnt so much of a chore. Let's add a rear sprocket selector so that they had that OD gear they so desperately need"

I'm just confused is all. When you can make a bike much better for cheap and light, why don't you?

Maybe not all bikes need this of course; Harley's are a fine example. Most people havent any complaints about highway cruising ability of those, but I'm talking for small bikes (which are extremely popular even in the shadow of Harleys.)

 

I have a 2011 America without a tach, and have no idea of what rpm the engine is running at. I too woul like to have an overdrive, just for those times I am on a highway running for a long time at one speed. Since I changed out the pipes for long TORS, being a bit quieter at highway cruising speed would be nice. Without a tach, I don't even know what redline is for this bike. Running at a real 75 mph (80 indicated) in 5th gear, I wonder how close to redline I am running the engine?

 

Without changing the sprockets the DRZ will tap the ton. With a minor change (more teeth on front or less on rear) it will run a touch higher...

If you can afford a new transmission for the DRZ? You will probably spend your money on a big bore and a flatslide carb. It'll pay off more in the long run.

There is balance that manufacturers must reach between performance and price. For the DRZ it has the USD forks (lacking on the DR) and nice rims and a very, very effective brake. More tranny and less brakes? Less brakes and more tranny? More tranny and conventional forks?

Tough call.

 

For the cost of a couple of extra gears in the transmission, most manufacturers will simply build a higher-priced model with a larger displacement. Problem solved.

 

Here is an example. My TU came out of the crate for MSF schools. 15T front, 43T rear. Almost everyone on the TU board I am on changes the front sprocket from 15 to 16. Changes the bike dramatically. Example, stock, change from 1st/2nd before completing a turn about 5mph. After mod, 1st/2nd change is at about 12-15mph. Running mine at 60mph stock, chainsaw, with 16T mod, weed whacker. Changing to 16T front and 41T rear, nice and smooth until about 75mph, but with a top end reaching about 82mph. No need to get into an expensive extra gear, when each sprocket is about $20. Big difference in the way the engine runs for little money. The manufacturers know this.

 

My Yamaha (Seca II) had 6 gears and I was always reaching for 7th also. The ratios were spaced really close together and I almost always had to double downshift.

The FXR and the Triumph both have 5-speeds and I find myself trying for 6th far less often that I went for 7th on the Yamaha. The gears are spaced farther apart and 5th actually seems taller than 6th in the Yamaha so both are much calmer at highway speeds. The torque advantage of both bikes also helps.

Six gears is plenty for any vehicle, our car has a seven speed automatic and it's always shifting. I know they're doing that for the EPA, but it just seems like a waste.

 

Bike vs motorcycle, you might notice the motorcycle has more power. From 1st to 10th are approximately the same ratio for bike and motorcycle, the difference is there's a lot of stops between on a bike because it's your legs making the power, not a motor. You go from 1-2 on a bike and they're nearly identical. No one ever goes 1-2, though, they go 1-4 or 5. Older motorcycles had high and low, too. 5low and 5high. But they were problematic.

 

I tried to shift into 7th gear almost daily on my Ninja 250, and I sometimes still do on the SV650.

 

My Sprint has 6 and most often I only use 4. The only times I run in 5th or 6th is on a long highway run. In the twisties I generally don't get out of 2nd. (95 in second is plenty)

 

My Bridgestone 90 was reportedly good for almost 90 mph in 4th gear, my AT3 would barely make 60 mph in 5th.

 

I am a mileage geek. My car gets over 55mpg.

I am also a mountain biker, but alas, only 18 speeds and I admit I don't use them all. I don't even know how I would number them 1st through 18th! (Without sitting down with a calculator and counting teeth).

I have to motorcycles:

The Yamaha XV 250 for comuting. Stock, it came with a 16/45 toothed front/rear sprockets. 1st gear was so low I didn't use it. In 5th at 55+mph the mirror images was so blurry from vibration ... how blurry were they? ... They were so blurry I couldn't tell the difference between a car and a truck! The gearing seemed more appropriate for a dirt bike of which I've had many.

I swapped the 16/45 for 17/38 and it is a different motorcycle, now it feels more like a road bike. 1st gear useful. At the same rpm as the stock at 50mph, I am now cruising at 67mph. Sure I have to downshift sometimes, for passing or long steep hills, but I like shifting. If I didn't like to shift, I'd have gotten a scooter.

A side benefit: stock 16/45 - 79mpg; with the 17/38 - 93mpg. Woo hoo!

My Sunday-go-to-meeting/date bike is a Yamaha XVS 650, shaft drive. I'd love to cruise at lower rpms on the highway. It gets 62mph, as is, (without date).

What I would like to hear in this discussion is not why they are geared the way they are, nor whether it is a good idea or not to change the ratios, but how would anowner make such changes to various bikes if the owner chose to do so. With specific examples, and the results both qualitative (mpg, rpm to mph, etc) and qualitative (runs smoother at speed, too sluggish, etc).

My $0.02?
The Yamaha XV 250 should come stock with the 17/38. It's not a dirt bike. It's not a crotch-rocket. Comfort at cruising speeds is much improved, MPG is significantly improved (for those who care).

Caveats - Less power, shifting will be required to maintain speed on long steep hills on the highway. 5th behaves like a true overdrive - can't just "throttle-up", like you can on bigger displacement bikes. Me, I don't mind shifting, what are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for on a road bike? Just getting from 1st to 5th?

 

Hi Bill I see you pulling up a lot of old posts.. like to knock over old hornets nests?

Gearing as you know is always a compromise between acceleration and top speed. It is also a committee derived compromise based on the motorcycle in question as well as it's intended uses.

The Virago 250 is a nice little bike, with lots of potential. Yamaha wants to ensure it will sustain highway speeds with TWO people on board and still be safe, meaning it should not pass out going over a hill. Sure if it's just YOU on the bike then it might seem the bike is under-geared. Have you tried riding it with your modified gearing with two grown-up's onboard? Up hills?

No doubt Yamaha has all the resources it needs to test every conceivable gear ratio, and decided on what the bike comes with from the factory. As with many decisions, YOUR needs might fall outside their general category.

As far as the # of gears available, generally the weaker the bike the more gears it needs in order to allow the engine to run in its sweet spot.

 

Factory gearing is optimized for a happy medium between quickness off the line, top end speed, and economy.

Smaller motorcycles are generally geared lower to make them quicker in city traffic. This is where the "average" rider will use them the most.

 

I DO need a 6th gear.
Yamaha screwed up on my bike.
Just wanna make that clear.

I dunno WHY they didnt put a 6'th gear on the Yamaha Raider.
Maybe because they couldnt envision a society where people were cruising at 100 mph over very long distances. To me - thats just shortsighted.

WTF were they thinking ... drink your coffee, Japanese designer dudes!!

HAHAHA!!
dT

 

...I dunno WHY they didnt put a 6'th gear on the Yamaha Raider...

Yeah well at least both 4th and 5th gears on our Raiders is overdrive! :icon_cool:

My 2nd last dirt bike was a 1980's Yamaha YZ490, that beast only had a 4-speed trans rumor is just to keep the gears thick enough to prevent the engine from grenading the tranny

 

My bike has six gears. It does 100mph in first gear. So why do I need the other 5?

 

My old 1965 BMW R-60 has only 4 gears but that causes no problems. It will ride all day at highway speeds and is not very anemic coming off the line at a traffic light. It gives me a consistent 50 MPG at almost any speed and will run fine on the lowest octane fuel. Why would I want more gears?

 

" It does 100mph in first gear. So why do I need the other 5?"

HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
I dunno. good question.
maybe you could rent out your spare gears to folks who need them

dT

 

maybe you could rent out your spare gears to folks who need them

Excellent idea!
For now, I use 2nd, 3rd and 4th as overdrive, and 5th and 6th only on the track. Using just first is kind of bad for fuel consumption.

 

I have noticed that a lot of new riders really don't like to hear and feel their engines rev.

That's what they are designed to do folks!

As someone mentioned above. Engines can run at 70% or more of max all day long. They just make a little noise, is all.

 

I have noticed that a lot of new riders really don't like to hear and feel their engines rev.

You have to get used to it, and it depends on your bike. The first year I rode, I mostly kept rpm under 8000. Now, it's mostly north of 9000.

 

My brother feels he needs a 6th gear in his 1200, but I never felt that way about my 883, But I would shift into 3rd about the same time he shifted into 5th........if you shift into high gear at 50mph then at 60 you will feel you need another gear.

And manufacturers like to fool people. Nissan Versa 5 speed will do 70mph @ 3000 rpm, Nissan Versa 6 speed will do 70mph @ 3300 rpm