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Discussion Starter #21
I was recently jumpstarting a dead battery and it did the same thing...clicking instead of turning over. I let the truck run and left the cables on for ten minutes so the bike battery could get more juice and it finally did start.

On a separate note, is the battery toast or can it be charged? If it's toast, why not go buy a new one? You'll need one anyway.
Because I'm bankrupt, my car needs service too and I delay it. I had the battery plugged on the car half an hour as I trying to jump start, the battery remain dead. I also unplugged the headlight to save current but nothing changed so I consider it dead.


If the battery is bad enough it will drain enough of the supplied voltage so that the ignition system is robbed of enough voltage for reliable starting.
But...
If the bike was put away for TWO years with fuel in the fuel rail / injectors then your injectors are probably plugged with old, bad fuel.
FYI,
The motorbike charging system can not handle the amperage an auto charging system puts out so you should not have the auto running w/jumper cables hooked up to the motorbike.

S F
1) the car is a 1.5 diesel and I had it running when I tried to jump start. (in case diesel makes it even worst)

2) the fact that nothing changed when I disconnect the headlight means that it will not start with a new battery either, or there is hope?

Thank you all guys from the replies
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I did not overdid it with the starter because this bike will either start at once or it will not start at all. first time in 16 years that it didn't start
 

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I had the battery plugged on the car half an hour as I trying to jump start, the battery remain dead
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the fact that nothing changed when I disconnect the headlight means that it will not start with a new battery either, or there is hope?
Not sure the headlight has much to do with it.
Even a good battery will go bad when sitting for two years. I'd say no hope for your battery. You could try charging it with an actual battery charger but still I'm thinking... No hope for the battery.
But again:
"If the bike was put away for TWO years with fuel in the fuel rail / injectors then your injectors are probably plugged with old, bad fuel."
I said probably but IMO the injectors almost have to be plugged.

S F
 

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My first motorcycle i got for $300 in great shape considering it sat for 2 years in a garage. I got it started in 30min. Now 5yrs later it still runs great.

A bad fuel pump relay was the cause. I bypassed it, drained, flushed the tank, pulled the carb and gave it a quick flush and it started. Oh yeah it was a horrible, painful start with smoke. But it started. Thats when i first got it. Then I pulled and rebuilt the carb by chem dipping it in Gunk chem dip. Stronger than Berrymans so remove all plastic.

Then I replaced the plugs, fuel filter, petcock and its filter, replaced fuel lines and fuel pump relay. Also air filter. This got it running as it should. With that done i then got to the other things like new tires, oil changed, brake fluid change and check etc. Since it is a 02 Honda Shadow i also cut a d re wired the three hellow wires that over heat under the seat. The connector causes resistance and over heating. So fixed that for safety's sake. Lol. But usually when a bike sits for months especially with carbs, they need a new battery if not on a tender durring that time. Then all fuel removed and flushed then replaced. Fuel filters changed as well. Check for gunk in the tank. Pull the carbs and just chem dip and then replace the seals and gaskets etc. Why not? Might as be sure its clean. Change the oil as well.

This is basic stuff to do. Im sure there are many other things but right now we just want to get it started and idling correctly. After the engine is running right you can focus on getting the other things done. A tapping sound when trying to jump or start is the starter trying to pop up and turn the crank but not getting enough juice to turn the engine.usually a fast " click click click" before dying off. Be sure fuel is getting to the fuel pump if applicable. Some bikes have a kick stand safety cut off. So the bike wont start unless in neutral. Also obviously check the kill switch on the right handle bar.

Petcock is open and fuel gets to the carb or injectors.
 

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OK to solve some misconceptions about jumping a bike with a car or truck. The issue isn't with what is running and what is not the issue is the inrush surge the stator, rectifier and regulator gets when the vehicle is unplugged.

So say you are jumping your bike, it starts and you unplug the truck from the bike. Suddenly your bike's charging system takes over and it changes from a state of not needing much charge (due to the jumping vehicle doing most of the work) to needing to supply a massive amount of power to charge a low/dead battery and supply power to keep the bike running. This sudden shock to the system is what will cause the damage. If you jump with ANY vehicle even another motorcycle make sure to turn off the jumped bike first and before you disconnect the cables. I know that defeats the purpose but that's why it is recommended to never jump a bike.

As to the OP's issue.

OK first off you NEED a good solid battery in the bike. This is key to everything, if you cant give enough power to the starter you will only heat that "TAK" sound as that is the starter relay closing but not enough power for the starter to turn the bike over... or run the fuel pump, or maybe not enough for the coil.

To see if your injectors are functioning electrically there is a tool that can be rented at most auto part stores called noid lights. These plug into the injector plug and will light up with the injector pulses. They are computer safe and wont destroy the driver chips for the injectors.

Make sure the fuel pump is pumping. It needs first off enough power and secondly it needs to not be messed up from the old fuel. I do not know the pressure spec but it needs to make the proper pressure as well as proper flow. If the pump isn't pumping, then replace it, clean all the fuel lines and also make sure the injectors are not clogged.

Does the bike fire with starting fluid? If not then the issue you have may be ignition related. Use some starter fluid and find out, if it fires look at fuel delivery if it doesn't then report back and we will see about ignition system help. But get a good solid battery first.
 
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Discussion Starter #26
Thanks guys for the replies, very insightful.
I went second time.
1) I change the battery
2) I check for spark, the left outer cylinder and the right outer cylinder and there is spark I saw it (the inner cylinders are difficult, plugs under the frame)
3) spark plugs are in good shape the edges are intact, black but no oil in them.

according to this diagram
the part number 14 is the return tube
64110

I disconnected the tube and pressed the starter,
and as I understand, fuel should come from the engine towards the tank...
but nothing happened, fuel did not run from the metal tube...

does it mean that the problem is the fuel pump for sure?

if so, can be fixed?
 

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Disconnect the fuel line from the engine/carb. Hold upright so it doesnt drip/drain all over the place. Dont look straight at it. Lol. Turn the engine to ON and it should prime and squirt some into the air.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Disconnect the fuel line from the engine/carb. Hold upright so it doesnt drip/drain all over the place. Dont look straight at it. Lol. Turn the engine to ON and it should prime and squirt some into the air.
So the tube that i tested shouldn't work the same way?

also another thing crossing to mind, the kill switch of the side stand maybe have stuck in open position... can i test that by unplug the kill switch and connect the two cables together?
 

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The side stand safety switch if its loose at all will kill the engine. This happened to me and it kills the engine right off. I was on the highway and the bolts on the kick stand came loose while I was first getting it all fixed up. If the fuel pump goes bad, gravity will feed some fuel so it will sputter and die if the pump suddenly goes bad.

There is also a fuel pump relay under the seat that can go bad and you can remove it and bridge it with a wire. Here is a pic i found online that shows you how to do it. Juat remove the recgangular relay and bridge it like in the pic. When you do and put the bike to on it should prime and you will hear it. Pic is from online but basically how i did it exactly on my shadow.
64118
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
I went third time and we have progress, the bike started at once like never being abandoned... when I disassembled and reassembled the fuel pump. I missed one detail before, when I turn the key normally the fuel pump goes ''zzzzzzp'' it didn't do that sound the previous days, now it does it and therefore starts at once.

Documentation below
This is how it looked when I pulled it out:
64120

64121

this is what I did to it:
64122

this is the pump reassembled and resealed:
64123

and this is the whole thing put together again:
64124


But now there are other problems. the engine got very hot very fast and the cooling fan started almost immediately, I let it run few seconds...
The first thought is to change oil and oil filter next time...

And a detail that is half on the topic of this forum and half out. The place that I have stored the bike get robbed last winter, they stole nothing, but they got to the bike... and I'm thinking the oil cap is accessible in this bike unlike the coolant cap... what if they have dropped something in there?

Thanks for everything guys and any further thoughts are welcomed
 

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Well thats different from my 02 Shadow spirit. My fuel pump is external and has a line in and out. Yours is in tank.

If its getting really hot that indicates too much air to me. I could be wrong. How is the air intake and filter? Also, check the RPM. They sell cheap RPM testers that you wrap a wired 4 x around the spark plug wire and it gives you a read out. Find out the OEM range probably 900 to 1100 rpm but be sure. Also check for vacuum leaks.

My 02 shadow has carb heaters. So it warms up quick but the fan even in San Antonio, TX doesn't kick on unless im sitting in traffic.

I would clean your plugs or even replace them. Then ride it at 40 to 60mph if safe to do so or just even on a local street for 30min then check your plugs. Oily and gasy smell is too rich and you are getting too much fuel. Burnt white light color is too much air. Too much air causes high temps.

If your getting back fire on deceleration then thats a good indicator of too much air as well. Anyone correct me if im wrong

It may be the carbs need to be reset if it has carbs, im not sure. I only know my bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Well now that you mentioned it I realised that I opened the choke once and it stayed open all the time and it's still open... also the high RPMs are due to open choke... dam

The air filter it's a washable aftermarket and I have washed it and let it dry, it was in place at the kickstart.

This bike it's an injection... and pull the injectors out it's not an option... it's a very complicated place... fortunately this situation is now behind.

''Also check for vacuum leaks. ''
I don't know what that is, if I didn't seal the pump on the tank well then next time will be no gasolin in the tank

Those are very expensive plugs, about 15 euros each, replace them when they working it's not an option !

If you see my tires you will sue me

I believe that I will have to go with the car one more time for oil and filter and to see if the sealing in the tank is OK...Then I go with a taxi and my helmet and I'm gone!
 

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Ok so fuel injection makes it easier since carbs can be a pain. Vacuum leak means that a seal between the air filter and where air enters the engine has a leak. So say the air filter box isnt tight and air gets sucked in after the the filter. So you suck in a bit of dirt. Or where the duct attaches to the engine is loose so air sucks in after the air filter. This can throw off the mixture of air and fuel.

A way to check is to spray starting fluid around the duck while its idling and see if the bike revs or Stahl's. If it does, you may have a vacuum leak.

You can probably clean and check your plug to see if they are black & or dry and burnt. They should be a light brown color.

Most fuel injection motorcycles have a computer module or ECM (Electronic Control Module) that adjusts the fuel and air mixture. So that shouldnt be a problem. However a fuel pump issue can cause problems or if the idle is turned up too high. Do you get smoke out the exhaust?
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Ok so fuel injection makes it easier since carbs can be a pain. Vacuum leak means that a seal between the air filter and where air enters the engine has a leak. So say the air filter box isnt tight and air gets sucked in after the the filter. So you suck in a bit of dirt. Or where the duct attaches to the engine is loose so air sucks in after the air filter. This can throw off the mixture of air and fuel.

A way to check is to spray starting fluid around the duck while its idling and see if the bike revs or Stahl's. If it does, you may have a vacuum leak.

You can probably clean and check your plug to see if they are black & or dry and burnt. They should be a light brown color.

Most fuel injection motorcycles have a computer module or ECM (Electronic Control Module) that adjusts the fuel and air mixture. So that shouldnt be a problem. However a fuel pump issue can cause problems or if the idle is turned up too high. Do you get smoke out the exhaust?
No I had no smoke from the exhaust, fumes on this bike are never visible.

The two plugs I checked was black without oil and in perfect shape...

[my previous post awaiting moderation because of some bad word I wrote... it seems you can see it so OK ]
 

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Ok, so it sounds like it should be running good. Unless it is back firing or struggling. But check the official running temp and see if its actually running hot or it could be a bad thermostat reading wrong.
 

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The choke closed on a carb usually closes the valve cutting off air. This causes a rich start and warms up fast. Then you open the choke and it runs normal. On a fuel injected bike im not certain. Here is a link to the manual if you need it. Its a PDF.

Moto4.ru › ru › old › manualsPDF
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Honda CB900 F Hornet 02-03 Service Manual ENG - Moto4.ru
 
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