[cotswoldstony]

Hi All, I have experience of the problems with bio being added to diesel years before adding it to petrol so here is some information you may find interesting.
Bio added to fuel is a combination of oils including vegetable oils and waste solid coconut husk oil which will not mix with mineral oil without ethanol hence the term E5/E10 petrol.
Both Diesel and Petrol need other additives when bio fuel is added, anti foaming additive/water seperation additive/octan additive/anti mold additive to name a few.
Ethanol is a cleaning fluid so all diesel fuel injection manufacturers void warranty claims because diesel is a self lubricating fuel for injection components and not designed for bio in most applications.
Fuel in vehicles with injection systems return fuel to the tank this keeps the fuel additives mixed together and vehicles/boats/generators etc must be started and run every 3-4 weeks to stop seperation and mold growing in the fuel tank.
Biggest problem is ethenol attracts water from the atmosphere you can test this by putting petrol or diesel in a clear container leave it to stand for a month and you will see the water in the bottom as the oils seperates.
Bosch fuel injection manufacturer recommend owners try to fill fuel tanks in dry weather conditions to lower water contamination and place anti mold additive to keep fuel tanks mold free.
So motorcycles and small engine driven machinery that have no return fuel lines to the tank must be drained when not used on a regular basis.
Carburettors will need cleaning more often and fuel injectors requiring injector cleaner every service.
Older vehicles/motorcycles/machinery were never designed to run on modern fuels and many suffer fuel oil seals leaking and diaphrams failing due to ethanel, modern engines having neoprene seals/diaphrams fitted for this problem.
Carburettors now suffer with lime scale due to the water in all fuels and heat from the engines similar to that in a kettle so blowing air to clear carbs will not work ultrasonic cleaning recommended.
E5 (Shell) recommended for small engines for less fuel problems and better m.p.g.
Any sensible comments or experiences with fuel problems welcomed.

 

[SemiFast]

etc must be started and run every 3-4 weeks to stop seperation and mold growing in the fuel tank.

Good information. Thanks.
I've found that motorbikes with carburetors will give problems in less than 3~4 weeks of sitting idle a lot of the time. It seems to be dependent on the type of venting the carburetors have. Some carburetors "crud up" sooner than others but all carburetors hate ethanol fuel. If autos still used carburetors Big Brother could not get away with forcing that garbage fuel on us.

S F

 

[amc49]

X2 the above post. You need no water removal if running ethanol, the ethanol itself does it.
A month to accumulate water? I can agitate ethanol and have water in it in five minutes. If they say E10 then bank on the % being higher if in the US as the government has a subsidy on it making ethanol the cheapest part of fuel and they then bump the % up without telling you as they make more profit off it as well as it burns faster since ethanol A/F ratio is 9/1 instead of 15/1 straight gas. Here E10 can be found at true % of 20 and nothing can be done about it as there is zero checking for the % the gas companies mix it at.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

The US uses corn to get ethanol. Canada uses grain. So I think the performance, and the problems differ.
The US had a major scam with a member of the Mormons, screwing the Govt. out of $ millions for fake credits.
I do not have the running problems with my XS1100, that are commonly referred to for carbureted engines.
Yami has been running fine for the past 5 or 8 years, and often sits for a few months while I am riding Noddy. I have never had the carbs apart on Yami. I did raise the needle one notch a few years ago. And I had one float stick after running out of gas. That was fixed the usual way by tapping the float bowl.

My XS400 sometimes has the small jets and or the enricher thingy get plugged. DP also sits for months at a time. Like right now while he is getting painted.
Noddy the Triumph Trophy sits over the winter months. He has problems with the carbs puddling, likely due to the stupid O rings that secure the floats. Noddy is also getting painted, and the carbs are off to fix the float problem. Noddy likes the ethanol free 91.
Bluzu the SV1000S is off about 3 hp running on US 87. I am not a chemist, and could be wrong about how the ethanol is derived.
My lawn mower, chain saw, weed eater, all sit for a while, and all fire when needed.

My boat sat for over two years, but the decent diesel engines always fire. Have a note to check for duel additive. Just changed the two fuel filters and will carry spares when we leave on 04 June. 22 liter jug just cost $48, and will be more at the distant marinas when we refill. UK

 

[SemiFast]

My cheap chain saw (2-stroke) will only run 20~30 min's on ethanol fuel. Then it has to rest. It will work longer than I can on good fuel.
I don't remember what the mormon guy did. I used to have a few mormon pretend customers. They haven't been around in a good while.

S F

 

[amc49]

It might be interesting to research the difference in the two ethanol base types, being distilled I've had a chemist swear that by doing it the end result is identical. can't say. I do wonder if being geolocated north or south has something to do with problems, Here in Texas if you spill on a 100+ degree day, say spill a half cup it evaps in literally under 30 seconds and closer to 15, like watching a special effect on a movie. It's there until it isn't. I can wash parts using fuel and water is in it in 5 minutes and it turns cloudy, showing phase separation has happened. I've even begun using severely separated fuel to remove tarnish and corrosion off of electrical parts now, it seems to work, the acids in it do it. I found out you NEVER use ethanol fuel to clean parts and leave them soaking overnight in it, it will fast rust say bearings to be dead the next morning when they were like new before going in the fuel. You MUST rinse the parts clean by air blowing with high pressure air to stop it. Right then and there.

I have cars that sit and one was out of the 70s and I used to clean the carb every 2-3 years or so to keep it running well. When the ethanol showed up I picked up pretty quick on how the carb began to act up in under 6 months and then began to watch the etching corrosion damage that comes next after the non-approved for ethanol rubbers degrade to wreck. The CB550 shows that damage too now and why I drain the carbs when not using it. The etching will be similar to a carb left in junkyard for many years but the corrosion comes much quicker than that, one summer will do it if the carb fuel path is loaded with fuel to keep supplying it to bowl as the ethanol evaps. It's acid corrosion, it eats away at the surfaces to ruin them.

In summer with fuel in it the CB550 began to stick all FOUR needles after sitting like 2 weeks. Could be either full open or full shut depending on where the needle ended up when the final fuel dried up to be bone dry. Carb bowls here dry up like lightning, the ethanol speeds up fuel evaporation a fantastic amount.

Another MPFI car had ethanol fuel to stay fine as it sat 2 plus years, the EVAP system on car was sealed pretty well. Then the next time I put a new fuel pump in it, it sat only maybe 6 months and would not start and pump not working. Pump went bad and based on not filling fuel tank up as the ethanol then ate severely into the pump case and other parts but stopped half way up it to show where the fuel level was. The mistake was either not filling tank up full or not draining it completely to let the ethanol long term change to acid and it ate the pump, the big plastic strainer on it was gone like it had never been there. It goes after certain plastics but not others, the fuel tank on that one is plastic and no damage at all. The rubber vibration biscuit on bottom of pump was just a mass of goo.

Like said we likely have 20% here and have had for a long time, the car dealers all fuel check here with any warranty work, if the fuel is over 10% they void your warranty instantly.

I do nothing to lawn mower and so far no issues. But the chainsaws have to be run dry of fuel after each use, the pumper style carbs will ruin the flapper valves inside and next thing you know the device quits idling reliably, trying to die all the time. Change that valve set and you are back in business and I've noted the makers are beginning to not use rubber there anymore, rather, the valves look like made out of mylar. Dunno about those yet.

Ethanol has one great advantage, when you clean parts with fuel, then hose them off with water, the parts no longer have that slimy oily residue straight gas left, the ethanol lets the water clean the parts COMPLETELY and why often ethanol based fuel pump or other fuel system parts you use WATER instead of fuel or any solvent, to clean the parts if you want them clean. Found that out cleaning glopped up Ford Focus fuel pumps to reuse for years more instead of spending $450 on new pump assemblies.