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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to start a discussion about how I felt the DMV does not properly educate new cycle riders. Motorcycles have the highest percentage of accidents and fatalities to my knowledge and I think this is partly DMV's fault. I know that many "skilled" riders break laws and endanger themselves and frequently die/become injured as a result increasing this statistic, however statistically speaking an accident typically happens on a new motorcycle, which means inexperience.

One of the most significant topics in motorcycling in general is not even mentioned anywhere at the DMV:

Cross-Rutting
Painted lines are slightly slicker, but they are also frequently a raised surface...This is only one example of a frequent way an inexperienced rider will crash due to cross-rutting.

To avoid cross rutting you want to hit any raised surface as close to a perpendicular angle as possible. Hitting a raised surface at a parallel angle will cause your tire to follow and most likely throw your weight and steer you into the ground.

Improper education:

While taking the written portion of my test I had a multiple choice question:

What do you do if you see a dog coming toward the road ahead of you?

a. Drive at the dog.
b. Beep your horn while proceeding
c. Rev your engine to scare it with the deeper tone.
d. Start to slow and beep to get the dog to clear the way.

If i told you the answer was A would you believe me?

DMV says you should go out of your way to hunt the dog down for roadkill smh...

Traction fails:
DMV doesn't mention cold tires, over acceleration, etc.

Pathing they try to tell riders to ride, when solo riding, in the (car) driver side tire track for best traction. The roads around me are in succh significant disrepair that this blanket statement is a terrible suggestion for new riders. My roads (car) tire lanes are sunk in from frequent heavy truck usage and if they dont have potholes in tire tracks they have long cracks or are holding water, frost, oil, ice, etc...

They say to avoid the center peak of a road, but I say nay...Peak center of a lane frequently has the best traction in my experience.

Idk share your thoughts on the topic. I just feel like the test in general is a big joke and a waste of time in it's current format. If they want to teach people they should do a half decent job at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Cross-rutting/Uneven surfaces should be 101 rider education imo.
 

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Nightfly
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There are agencies and safe riding programs everywhere. They are to be taken advantage of by the rider. Most are not mandatory, but certainly can help to give a rider confidence and a greater understanding of the basics and even advanced form of riding. The DMV takes no responsibility.... whether or not to take those classes is up to the rider. All the rider must do is pass a test. Sort of like getting a drivers license in this state, just the appearance of knowing what you're doing seems to be good enough.
 

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Most everyone on this site, has been preaching education forever. I was teaching kids to ride in the dirt quite a long time ago.
There are a million ways to crash, and just as many stupid things cage drivers do. We all form our own level of importance to them.
Many of the stroker set pretend they are equal to God, and ignore or deny the potential problems.

UK
 

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It's hard to make rules about where to ride in the lane. There are so many variables that change all the time, so that I end up following my rule of "minimize risk". For example, in my area the two lane mountain roads often have brush and trees right up to the edge of the road, and there may be deer in there, so I ride in the left wheel track to give my self some room to see and avoid one. However, in a left hand curve I may move to the right wheel track to keep away from any oncoming vehicle hogging the center stripe. In this case a collision with a car is worse than one with a deer.

On the other hand, if a two lane road has good shoulder visibility I will ride in the right wheel track to stay away from oncoming vehicles, but if I see a car is waiting on the right at an intersection I will move to the left wheel track to make myself more visible and allow some time to react if he pulls out on me.

This is also why, when riding in a group, nobody rides alongside another bike. Everybody needs room to move around.
 

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Nightfly
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Many prefer to ride the back country roads for their inherent beauty. I only do so at specific times of the day. Back roads have been proven to be more dangerous than Interstate highways for various reasons. However, when I do ride back roads I do pretty much what McRider01 does. It's sensible and unless you're riding balls out, it makes for a pretty straight foreword safe way to enjoy back roads.

Around here those roads are usually narrow, with many hidden driveways and animals capable of ruining your day at every curve. Not to mention the stones and gravel that can be prevalent in many places.
 

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I agree -- plenty of states, mine included, do an extremely poor job of educating new riders. But honestly, when I think about the potentially mind-boggling bureaucracy needed to run riding academy on a grand scale, I don't know of a really practical way to go about it. It's been a while since I got my Motorcycle endorsement -- 40 years or so -- but the motorcycle handbook was -- and still is -- pretty darned good. It covers the basics well, and while most of the things it advises will be modified to suit conditions as a rider gains experience, following the basics is always the safest way to approach things. And you are required to operate on a beginner's permit for a minimum of six months, so in theory you get plenty of time to learn the ropes. And if you fail the riding test 3 times you have to attend mandatory classes before being tested again.

The problem is that, just as with driving cars, having a license in no way, shape or fashion assures a well-trained, safe operator. The ultimate responsibility, regardless of how many classes you've been through, rests right on the individual. Some of those individuals will take it seriously, some won't.
 

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For the most part US States have opposed graduated licences. And so have many riders. They have a God given right to ride whatever they want from the get go. This differs from what happens in other countries, and helps explain why all the top level riders are from Spain, Italy, France, Holland and England. Not just on the pavement.
The US only recently had a Gold medal ISDT team, and a motocross would champion. Two success stories have been omitted for others to fill in.

UK
 

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Nightfly
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For whatever reason, here in the states we seem to not give a damn about any form of motorcycle racing, or Formula 1 racing or a long list of most racing that is beyond popular in other countries.

NASCAR was the big deal for many year, not sure how it's doing these days nor do I care. That couldn't be more boring if they tried. 500 miles of inane car juggling is senseless to me. Thankfully most any form of racing is available to us over the internet or some other form of viewing. Also, Formula 1 racing is limited to no more than 2 hours and about 305 kilometer or 190 miles.

Drag racing only show about 3 types of cars, all that cost the most money, and maybe a couple motorcycle classes, but the classes that built the sport and the ones I grew with and participated in for many years are not ever found on Television. It would seem they just don't exist. Your right UK, the good riders all seem to come from other countries but I don't know if it has anything to do with licensing when kids are young.

I didn't learn to ride on a small scooter. My dad taught me about his Old Harley and his Indian... He sat me on it one day, gave me some good advice, lots of basic riding knowledge, turned me loose and said if I wrecked it, I bought it. I learned fast...He was a damn good mechanic and a hell of a rider.
 

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Moderator - Loves All Motorcycles
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Sadly, I feel the local DMV does a better job at teaching motorcyclists than it does drivers...and that's saying something. Last time I took the written test it was on a computer screen and consisted of what was about a couple dozen questions of "what is this sign?" or "what do you do when a red light is broken?" and so long as you don't crash the car or drive like a complete dunce you'll certainly pass. Heck, you can even easily cheat the vision exam, too!

And as an unpopular opinion: The lack of safety measures in the few remaining holdout states don't help fatality figures. On many days during last summer I saw guys wearing tank tops, shorts, and flip flops while speeding or riding recklessly on Hayabusas and choppers. Their girlfriends somehow managed to have even less clothes on. Oh, and I won't even talk about the "bros" in flat brimmed hats doing wheelies on Groms in traffic. Seems like a fun way to earn a concussion. I'm all for personal freedom, but gosh darn it seems too many people lack a basic self preservation instinct. Not saying you have to dress like a Power Ranger, but maybe at least leave the flip flops at home? How do you even shift gears in flip flops? I tried just for giggles, it sucks! And what if you lean too far into a turn?? :O
 

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Nightfly
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Excellent points double M. I can't speak for other states but here they are more interested in having you pass a test then they are in teaching you how to drive. When I was driving an 18 wheeler tanker truck I had to take a hazardous driving test every 2 years to get my license renewed. The test was a huge joke. 25 questions but if you answered every question correctly I think the test stopped at 19 or 20 because I had passed the bare minimum and we can't have anyone getting a high score. Plus, half the questions on the test were related to those who carried high explosives, which had no relation to me carrying gasoline.

As for guys/girls riding with flip flops and tank tops, I think the only way certain people learn is the hard way. I don't dress for the crash but boots and a helmet I usually wear, gloves are usually on me somewhere.
 

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Retired twice: Navy and as a govt contractor
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If you pay enough on cable tv, you can watch a lot of racing.

I watch F1, some of the bike races and when I can find them European and/or German touring sedan races. We used to be able to get the European Lory racing. Not that was a riot.

Capital Raceway is less that a half mile from me through the woods or a mile and a half by road. I get all the 'local' racing every weekend without leaving my back porch. While some complain about the sound it is music to my ears.
 

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Nightfly
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If you pay enough on cable tv, you can watch a lot of racing.

I watch F1, some of the bike races and when I can find them European and/or German touring sedan races. We used to be able to get the European Lory racing. Not that was a riot.

Capital Raceway is less that a half mile from me through the woods or a mile and a half by road. I get all the 'local' racing every weekend without leaving my back porch. While some complain about the sound it is music to my ears.
You are absolutely right about cable TV. I don't have all those channels but my brother does so I go there when there is something I really want to see. I do get a lot of F1 races but the channel that carries them seems to broadcast them at 3 or 4 in the morning, if I want to watch it live.

There are so many forms of racing that we just don't have over here. I love the sedan races, and some of the older Mustangs and Camaro's etc... I was a huge fan of the old Can Am races, You're definitely right, the sound of racing is music to my ears. The closest race track to me is Williams Grove, a very popular dirt track and a good place to see the world of Outlaws. I go maybe once a year. Usually just to get in the pits and check out the machinery.

European Lorry racing, that sounds like craziness to me...
 

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What's wrong with 3 or 4 in the morning? ha ha ha

Every once in awhile I get to watch a truck race or drag race. They are a hoot. Why they insist on Nascar here is beyond me, it is very boring. Pedal to the metal and turn left. Whoopi. No wonder all the fans do is drink beer watching that. I guess if you get drunk enough the double image looks like a race.:devil: :devil: :devil:
 

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Nightfly
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During the early days of NASCAR I was a sometime fan. I liked the 427 Fords and Chevy's, the 426 Hemi and people like Smokey Yunick who was always looking for ways to stretch the rules.; Now in the interest of fairness and sameness it has become a race format with way too much control by NASCAR. Sure, have some basic rules and safety requirements but let them race. The visual difference between a Ford, Chevy and Toyota are almost non-existent. And the only similarities betwee NASCAR Cup Series cars and actual production cars are limited a small amount of shaping and tweaking of the nose.

For me personally if the races were much shorter, 25 laps or so on a super speedway, I would be more likely to watch. As is, it's like watching a soap opera, You can watch the opening start of the race and tune in for the final dozen laps of so and all you've missed were guys getting out of line and falling to the back. Oh, and maybe a wreck or two.

Have we totally forgotten drivers like A. J. Foyt who really could drive anything, and did. I believe there may be some current drivers that could do it but they may not want to take the chance on harming what they have all ready established as a career in NASCAR. Don't know, I do know in its current configuration I can not watch it.
 

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During the early days of NASCAR

Have we totally forgotten drivers like A. J. Foyt who really could drive anything, and did. I believe there may be some current drivers that could do it but they may not want to take the chance on harming what they have all ready established as a career in NASCAR. Don't know, I do know in its current configuration I can not watch it.
A J was asked what he thought of the new lady driver. He said, I don't know, I haven't tried her yet.

Some of the car drivers can and do switch cars quite well, but they usually can not ride a bike. Schumaker sp? crashed on a bike. But many bike riders have done well in cars.

UK
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
it's interesting to me to see professional racers swap vehicles. i seen a youtube of a drag car dude swapping with a trophy truck. good stuff.
 

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I got my ME by taking the MSF course in spring 2013. They were pretty good and I really
enjoyed the course, However it was the first part of bike education, The 2nd part was
finding out I could make tighter turns, ride faster, and brake harder then swerve by watching
Motorman Palladino in his 'ride like a pro course.'

The third part was knowing there are some pretty good books out there like Dave Hough's
'Proficient Motorcycling' and 'Mastering the ride." I am sure that others have found the
center of the lane to not be the best place to ride, specially at intersections, leaking oil or
other liquids can be pretty slippery. Those white plastic signs that are stuck in the pavement
are pretty slick, more so after raining, like on Rte. 4 WEST rte. 275 NORTH etc.

Back in the mid 70's one could go to the Police station and pick up a book for the Motorcycle
written test. Frankly I don't remember if there was bad advice given but knew I could not ride
at night, carry a passenger or ride out of state, or a combination of the three rules, not that I
always adhered to them. But in some ways I got better at night riding and knowing how to ride
2 up.
 
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