Someone else made a Counter Steering post in, I think. 2011 and it showed up in my Recommended Reading a few days ago. I watched a video and spent all day, day before yesterday, or until about 3:30 PM, Counter Steering on every turn, even when it was not necessary. I rode up to Aldi to pick up some dog food and rode around the parking lot counter steering in and out of the empty spaces between the cars. I watched a video and became "too aware" of something I have been doing for decades. I will say I had fun doing it though. It's a good way to make sharp turns at low speeds. But you can also counter steer on a straight, I rarely ever put my feet down at a light, I stop 40 or 50 feet back and inch up 2 or 3 MPH counter steering the entire time. Unless its a long light, dont have to put feet down. It's balance, but really it's just counter steering at an extremely low speed left and right in the straight lane. Everyone should learn how to counter steer and practice it, it makes riding a whole lot easier.

 

I would hate to get behind you at a light. What is the purpose? Why would you not want to put your feet down? I know cops that would give you a ticket.

 

I agree with you completely, I wouldn't want you behind me either.

The "see the tires" rule is a bunch of BS. I learned that last year sitting at a light and got pushed across two lanes. I am ALWAYS ready to go.

Show me a cop who will ticket for advanced riding skills and I will show you a cop who gets his/her (those) tickets thrown out in court..every single time.

 

I won't stop that far back at lights but will balance and try to time it so I don't have to put my feet down myself. I balance at stop signs too. It's a great way to hone your balancing skills. On a 950+ pound bike that's ultra important. But I usually just ride up normal except stop on a dime, balance for 1 or 2 seconds and roll on. And you are absolutely correct about cops. One day I run into one that's just been given his divorce papers or in some other way is just having a bad day and I will get a ticket. Doubt he buy honing balancing skills is good on land yachts but that's what I'll hit him with and take whatever happens after. They do like to see BOTH feet down, at least here. So be prepared for a ticket if you just balance at stops and roll on. Simple as that.

 

Well I wasn't confused before but I am now.

 

Ride a dirt bike with lose footing, enter a corner and jump on the back brake. Repeat and haul on the front brake. You will learn more about counter steering than any video can explain.
Does a good guitar player need to know about harmonic resonance.
Did Vladimir Horowitz tune the pianos he played.
Does an owner of an early Bentley know how to adjust the exhaust valves on an F head engine.
Did anyone know about counter steering before the ex drug user made it popular.
How did folks ride bike then, not knowing anything about anything.
And for the umpteenth time. Counter steering may be a primary input for many bikes, it can be a secondary reaction on some bikes, and not required at all on some bikes. One size does not fit all, and many do a serious disservice preaching it as such.
I watched some of the video. It resembles navel gazing. Ride a dirt bike in the dirt, have fun, fall off, do it again.
Marqez, Rossi, Edwards, Hayden, are and were dirt bike riders. The first US world champion road race rider, road flat track before riding on the pavement. He did stuff in the rain that counter steering geniuses can only dream. Correction, he did stuff that they know nothing about. UK

 

I agree UK. This inane, over analyzing of something every rider from pedal bike to the biggest street yacht does is really wearing thin. It must make the inexperienced rider feel better to have it explained to them with drawings and cartoon characters rather than just going out and rider their damn bike. UK you are right, get down in the dirt, you might learn something..

 

Thank you. TR.
Following up on what Misti said. A lot of this stuff can get you killed. It is a primary reason why I keep going on about leaning the bike first, then steer as required. Counter steering complexity, can lead to non leaning and confusion, and crashes. UK

 

Wow, this is convoluted..... Way to take a subject and make it even more complicated than it needs to be. After watching the video I read the comments and one of them stood out for me. "This gives the false impression that a rider can choose between direct input steering and counter steering, as if it were a matter of personal preference. That advice can get someone killed. You cannot steer a motorcycle at public road travelling speed with direct input steering. You’ll go the opposite direction of your intention."

Counter-steering. Push left to go left, and right to go right. End of story.

 

Wow, this is convoluted..... Way to take a subject and make it even more complicated than it needs to be.

Yea, this is some of the garbage about steering a motorcycle that gets published and I think there are many who believe it. (sarcasm on) I am overwhelmed to learn that all these years I have been doing cone swerves that I have actually been doing stunts! (sarcasm off). There is a balance when explaining principles between too much and not enough, this video seems to go way beyond too much and injecting none important information, and at the same time leaves out critical information in the line of natural teaching progression.

My thought in posting this video was to show those that have not seen it, some of the garbage that is out there. You (and a couple others) certainly picked up on it immediately. And although it was not my intent to start another thread that some just seem so upset about, it wasn't a surprise they most likely missed the point. Nonetheless, they have an opinion and it is good they express it.

 

I was counter steering my bicycle, then my motorcycles long before I even knew there was a name for it.
I just thought I was steering, and riding, my bike the way everybody does...

S F

PS:
Didn't go to the link. I'm confused enough already and I know how to steer a street bike anyway.

 

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I thought the video was very confusing. I would not recommend it to anyone. Besides, the cartoon character didn't even have a helmet on. What legitimate safety video would have the rider not ATGATT?

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The more you explain the more you confirm. You know nothing about me so take it lite sarge....

 

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Yea, Sarge. TR is the one in the middle. 😁

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Always good for a laugh Ron, I appreciate it. how did you know? You seem more like the Curly type, a little lite on the hair maybe? Grin..

 

Because you subscribe to the counter steering school of thought, You can say no different.
I subscribe more to the Reg Pridmore school of thought, and know how I ride.
I have explained it more than sufficient number of times. There are plenty of bikes where counter steering is not the primary input. Any amount of denial will not change that fact. I have riden them. Others have riden them. You can not change factual first hand evidence.
I have talked about the heavier bikes where counter steering is a primary input. If the counter steering folks want to rant on about this forever, go for it. Hopefully at some time they will learn more.
Also: There is more to learn about riding a bike for tough cross country races, than there is from track days. UK

 

Again I am in total agreement with you UK. If I can ride my Sportster into an upcoming turn and take my hands off the handlebars and then complete the turn by just my leaning into it, where and when did the counter steering come into play?. It did not. I'm fed up with this stupid thread, get a grip and ride. Some things are better learned by doing rather than watching a video or reading an article about it.

 

That's what I've said from the get go. Get on your bike, find a nice straight stretch of road and push left and the push right while rolling down that road at the speed limit. What happened? COUNTERSTEERING!!! Now ride with that info in your memory bank and use it when and where you can. But ride is the key.

 

Fun Fact:
When you compete in the slow race at the bike games you do not counter steer.

S F

 

I have to say I NEVER would have thought a thread on counter steering would turn so... surly! 😆

Over thinking it led to me almost ditching the bike a few times when I was just starting out. It seems to be one of those reflexive actions that, if I am "feeling the bike", just happens. Most riders seem to grasp it intuitively but some, alas, never will...

 

I'll admit I never heard of the term before maybe 5 years ago at the most. I realized I was already doing it so never gave it anymore thought. I have seen guys steering thru turns and always wondered if they got home. It just seemed natural to me but maybe some need to read about it. I hope they don't get so confused they end up crashing though.

 

You guys are all missing the most important point!

Use your turn signal, the bike will follow the blinky light

 

I think that is why they make the headlight brighter than the tail light, so it has enough strength to pull the bike forward. The engine is just there for the sound effects!

 

Shhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone, they will all start using the highbeam to go faster.

 

Now this thread is finally meaning something. I leave my high beam on all the time. And here I thought I was doing something no one else was. Darn

 

It's the light that makes everything work. High beams to go faster, and brake lights to slow. It's not the pads that slow, but the brighter light in the rear from you pressing on the lever and foot brake. If fact I thnk you could save a lot of weight and even go faster if you took out the engine and removed all the brake junk from the wheels, the head lights and tail lights will make you go fast and brake hard, and don't need to throw your weight around looking like a racer, just use the turn signal lights to change direction!!!

 

Hrmm... so that is why my brakes started working better after I added that extra tail/brake light with the blink modulator. Good to know.

 

Seriously though, after reading UK and TR I have tried making my bike turn just by leaning. Maybe I'm too timid with the weight shift, but the best I can do with lean only is very slight turns. On the other hand, if I press on the handlebar the bike instantly leans over and I turn. I press the other side of the handlebar and the bike straightens up and I go straight.

The lean makes the bike turn. The press on the handlebar makes the bike lean.

 

Roger I think you are a pretty good example of a street rider who illustrates from their own experience that counter steering is so much easier to use and control than weight shifting and you don't seem to be confused about using it. It's a simple process that is easier to teach and learn than body position/weight shifting.

There is also something to be said and enjoyed by those who use weight shifting to steer although I don't think they fully understand what happens when they do it, but regardless if that works for them and they don't care to learn another way, they should keep doing what works for them.

Those who favor weight shifting over counter steering street bikes, for the most part, counter steer through a corner and recover to straight regardless of how the the lean is initiated. I have heard they think for heavy bikes counter steer is good, but not for all bikes. I would agree to a certain point. I have never argued that a bike cannot be turned (eventually) by weight shifting, however counter steering works on all street bikes with the same amount of ease. It doesn't take shifting the body and/or loading weight on the inside peg and against the tank with the outside leg. The rider can sit center and go with the forces of the bike without strain, by simply counter steering, big bike, little bike, heavy bike, light bike, or any size driver (within reason).

I don't deny that some riders on some bikes can successfully make their selected bike turn in the corner of their choice at their selected speed without touching the grips by weight shifting. I would like to some day ride with them on my streets so they could convince me how effective their method is!

I would agree that many riders, probably most, have started riding without the knowledge of counter steering. Most/many probably have ridden a bicycle and transition to motorcycles without a lot of turmoil. That doesn't prove that counter steering is complex or that we should just go out and ride to learn the hard way. What it proves is we have done a terrible job at helping new riders better control the motorcycle, especially during challenging events like avoiding contact with other obstacles and contact with the ground other than with our tires and feet!

I do know their are street riders that perform well by using a combination of weight shifting and counter steering that they enjoy and are competent, safe and smooth.

 

You guys are making this way too complicated.

Try this..
Lean left, move some of your body weight to the left then STOMP on the left footpeg.
This will sort of 'throw' the bike left and downward. To avoid crashing you will have to counter steer Right to save it.
If you do not crash then you have just learned how to counter steer.
See it's easy. You're Welcome... Class dismissed

S F

 

Read my replies on this subject. How many time do I have to say that some bikes need to be wrestled with, as in counter steering, some go either way as in lean, counter steering may follow, and some never heard of counter steering. If Roger decides his bike works best with what he has discovered that is peachy with me. But please do not use it as evidences to imply the way a lighter weight sport bike should be steered. I have given more than enough examples of bikes that go where you look, and where you lean them. I have provided the name and the book for those that would like to learn more about body steering. I have referred to different races to illustrate a point. This wrenching bars program must be deeply ingrained. Wrestled is the word road race guys described the heavy flexy flyers.
For hopefully the last time. Counter steering is not required on many bikes. They go where you aim them. It is written for those that want to learn. UK

 

UK, I've kinda lost count how many times you've put your information out there, but it doesn't matter. Someone else will figure they have looked at it in such a way that no one else ever though about.

 

Thank you again TR. I was about to get cynical and sarcastic. It seems at times if Joey Dunlop had thoughts on riding, he would not be believed. UK