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2021 CanAm Spyder RT
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I think too many folks have swallowed the Kood-Aid from Harley Davidson. They are a business, focused on trying to create a strong return on their investment. They are most definitely not some super patriotic American organization dedicated to some ideal that matches their marketing to their loyal customers. The current trade disputes that we are having with China and with Europe arise from the total anti American slant to these relations ever since WWII. We allowed this imbalance to occur as a means of consciously punishing American manufacturers to boost the ravaged economies of Europe. As for the Chinese, don't forget they are run by the Communists. There is nothing "fair" or open in their dealings. Both China and Europe have taken advantage of America, but so far we have done little but talk about it. President Trump is pushing the issue to move us all closer to what we say we all want, i.e., open and FAIR trade. No more allowing unfettered access to American consumers while Europe and China both maintain major barriers to our companies selling in their home markets. So we will have a bit of discomfort for awhile. HD is merely trying to work the game to its own advantage. In the short run it may well make sense to make Harleys overseas for sale in those overseas areas. As trade barriers fall, to the benefit of all, we could see production return here, or not. The key will be business advantage. If HD thinks it does better with bikes being made in Europe, considering all factors including customer loyalty, then it will continue to do just that. Just don't be foolish and mix up reality with some fanciful self image of this business enterprise. Personally, I've always thought the obsession by some about HD was laughable at best, scarily ignorant at worst. Getting a brand name tattooed on your body is pretty weird in my opinion. Refusing to even take a demo ride on a bike by another brand is also pretty foolish to me, but hey, its a free country.
 

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Harley imported bikes from Italy in the past. Graceshredder just restored one.

That being said, maybe Harley will build bikes for the American market here and build for the EU over there. Its not like Japanese and German car companies do not build product both places. They did it for the exact same reason, and that is taxes.

As far as the bike that just about killed Harley, I own one--the CB750. They quit making them and went to the 700 Nighthawk. The Nighthawk is a heck of a durable motorcycle, but the cool factor is not there for me.

The big beast of the Japanese fleet, the Gold Wing did not suffer cubic inch restrictions, because it was built in Ohio and spawned more business here. For some reason, the Gold wing is not built here anymore
 

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Biker
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Come back to U.S. Harley

I fully agree with what Porky says," Produce American iron with American CITIZENS in the United States, like Kansas City and capture LOYALTY again."

I am not going to go deep into this because my knowledge of trade and everything connected with it is not much at all. BUT I will say this, "I feel In the 'salad days' of H-D, they wanted to be an American company building a great bike, the world has changed a lot since then, what seems to have not changed is the governments attitude towards business, 'To freaking screw H-D and any other company that has the testicles to make a profit.' Honestly, some taxes are good but a greedy government is probably the worst thing a country needs, Frankly at times I wonder why H-D has stayed here as long as they have, sure they have a strong foothold in America but as as strong as it could be? I mean if H-D could keep MORE of their profits, maybe they would not have to be so involved with the world situation and who feels like dealing with a communist country?

"Ever since WWII. We allowed this imbalance to occur as a means of consciously punishing American manufacturers to boost the ravaged economies of Europe. As for the Chinese, don't forget they are run by the Communists. There is nothing "fair" or open in their dealings. Both China and Europe have taken advantage of America."

"Why did we have to punish American Companies to help China and Europe? I think it is a real shame American companies have to be so taxed, If China and Europe can't get their heads out of their asses, look at the way the Chinese do things, making wall board for houses that emitted noxious fumes into brand new American homes, builders are in business to make a few $$ but the Chinese simply don't care what kind of crappy-ass products they make, then there was the toothpaste an dog food, we could screw'em over just by not doing business with them. I think doing the politically correct thing by having to deal with all the BS from unfair countries is going to 'do us in' at the end."

Well, I said it and I don't give a flying 'F' if some top brass don't like it.
 

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Hey, Harleys sold in the USA will still all be made in the USA. Don't get your knickers in a twist.

HD has a plant in Brazil, and that plant produces most of the HD bikes sold in Brazil.

HD has a plant in India which produces Street 500 and 750 bikes for Asia, Australia and some European countries (Spain, Portugal). Street bikes sold in the USA are made in the USA.

HD is building a plant in Thailand to supply Asia, and it has just been announced that this plant will supply the EU.

So no plant outside the USA will supply bikes into the USA. A HD company, New Castalloy, in Australia does produce alloy rims which are imported into the USA. Australian HD bikes have rims made in Australia, shipped to the USA, assembled there and then the complete bikes are shipped back to Australia.

The Kansas City plant closed when the V-Rod was discontinued, not because a plant in Thailand was being planned.

HD is an international marketer, just like Ford (plants in Mexico, Europe, Brazil, Thailand ?) and GM (plants in Europe, Japan, Korea, China ?). It's an international market and companies will produce where it's convenient. They'll move product around the world depending on production and demand. All the profit from the overseas plants goes back to Milwaukee doesn't it? Buy HD shares!
 

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I guess one can't beat market forces, but if the bikes H-D makes for the U.S. are built in the U.S. with some parts built elsewhere, yeah, that is good. Are we paying more for H-D motor-clothes made in Mexico and maybe other countries? As said though in another post, "If government would stop screwing every company that makes a profit, I think the companies and H-D could make some + changes all around, but government giving anyone a break? . . .yeah right.
 

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V65 Junky
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By your logic Toyota should only build product in Japan, BMW should only build product in Germany, French companies should only produce their products in France.

And the extension to that is no one else should buy any American product because it was not made where sold.

Man, how you have failed Economics 101 so absolutely miserably!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"Economics 101----" Quote

Taught by Socialist in your country and sadly, in ours too since the teachers Union's support the socialist demorat party:)

Sam:)
 

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What would happen if H-D built all the bikes here, in the U.S. and built the way Europe, Thailand, India wanted them made and let those countries pay the tariffs, shipping and somewhat more to make up for the way our own Gov. is going to 'Skunk H-D? Our so called uncle, I don't think really cares where the $$ come from, as long as he gets them and if other countries want H-D so bad, let them pay up. I love my country but not the butt-holes who make laws that don't help the U.S. I don't get it, I suppose I should though as I have been through N.J. and they have a racket with the N.J. Turnpike to screw over as many people as they can, so I guess we should all be grateful we are getting the big pepperoni up our asses by our own people than from someone from another country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No Junkie, I don't drink, smoke, chew, take illicit drugs nor do I use Marijuana in any form, nor am I deranged, although if I always read your stuff I may be pushed to the edges of sanity:angel:

By the way, it's your country that just approved non-medical recreational use use and possession of Marijuana and its products so that the rest of your citizens if so inclined can also watch their intelligence go up in smoke:wink2:

Funny part is, your socialist leaning Government already has a HUGE tax plan on every single leaf or chemical extract that you folks may use or even think of using:grin: They are projecting billions in new tax revenues to maybe bring your stoners down a notch:smile_big:

"We need to make Marijuana legal to take it out of the hands of Criminals!" This is the Stoner mantra:wink2: Now the Businesses growing, processing and marketing Mary Jane, take in incredible amounts of cash from their customers because everyone pays cash so as not to create a traceable record and the Cartels and organised crime are using this situation to 'launder' money: So it's still in the hands of the criminals but at least the GUBMIT is getting its tax dollars:devil:

Lighten up Dude, not light up:kiss:

Sam:nerd:
 

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Driftless Rider
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Harley Davidson's haven't really been "American made" for quite a few years. The bikes sold here are only assembled here, from about 60% US made parts.

As for the rest...
Harley gets pinched when it imports the steel and aluminum to build the bikes.
Then gets pinched again when it exports bikes to Europe.

Why WOULDN'T they move production to the EU for the scoots that they are building for the EU.


The jobs lost are just the first casualties in this brewing trade war...
Stay tuned kids. it might get bumpy.
 

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V65 Junky
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Harley Davidson's haven't really been "American made" for quite a few years. The bikes sold here are only assembled here, from about 60% US made parts.

As for the rest...
Harley gets pinched when it imports the steel and aluminum to build the bikes.
Then gets pinched again when it exports bikes to Europe.

Why WOULDN'T they move production to the EU for the scoots that they are building for the EU.


The jobs lost are just the first casualties in this brewing trade war...
Stay tuned kids. it might get bumpy.
Smart man Joe. No one wins in a trade war. What H-D is doing was predictable. There will be more. If Porkies man crush gets his way the result will be 15% unemployment by the end of his term :devil:
 

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"We need to make Marijuana legal to take it out of the hands of Criminals!" This is the Stoner mantra:wink2: Now the Businesses growing,
Lighten up Dude, not light up.

Yeah, might as well say, "Let's get rid off all the laws, so there won't be any criminals."

It seems to me that if government can't control a problem, they change it into a $$making scheme. Prostitution is good if the Gov. can make a $$ with it, nothing new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
"If Porkies man crush gets his way the result will be 15% unemployment by the end of his term."

Funny, right now, employment is the highest it's been in many, many years:smile_big: In the Black community, it's the highest that it has ever been:grin:

GOD bless our AMERICAN President:smile:

How's your crush on Trudeau and the Queen dude?:wink2:

Sam:nerd:
 

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Driftless Rider
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I went to Christian school for 8 years and know the bible and commandments. I not thinking that your god cares much for Mr. Trump. Afterall, Donald isn't very Christian in his acts and deeds.
We could start with his several divorces, move on to his Greed, and continue from there.
:wink2::wink2:

And, as for your self-righteousness, Mr. Pork. Why do you care so much what happens on this rock...aren't you destined to be raised up during the rapture anyway?
Some of us simply try do the right thing a live a good life regardless of the threat of damnation or promise of salvation from empty skies.

Sorry if that's a bit harsh.....When we get to hell, I'll buy you a lemonade:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You are lost Joe. I pray someday, something will change your future. GOD loves you whether you believe in Him or not. Judge not Joe lest you be judged:angel:

Sam:nerd:
 

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Ace Tuner
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Man, this thread just took a right at the left-hander that's at the end of the straightaway... (Top Speed Clash)

Anyway, Harley will come out of it okay. They made it thru the AMF years after all.

May God Bless you all and H/D too :thumbsup:
 

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American Legion Rider
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It really is a shame. Trump was doing so well at bringing jobs back but in his effort to level the playing field it seems to have backfired. I truly understand why he did it but did he not meet with all the companies that would be affected first. I thought he had been but maybe those meetings didn't bring the tariff wars and what would happen if he took this final step. It does seem like a poor move if these companies now won't back him. I'm a little confused at exactly why they have done what they are doing but think it's media blowing things out of proportion.
 
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