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2003 vl 800
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Discussion Starter #1
What is the trigger wire and how does the ignitor, coils, and rectifier create spark? Looks like the coils share a wire. Need a pro
 

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Battery / coil systems create a spark by interrupting DC current flow from the battery through the primary of a transformer ( the coil) As the electromagnetic field collapses, a high voltage pulse is created in the secondary of the coil, which is connected to the spark plug. This high voltage arcs over the spark plug gap.

The interruption of the primary current is coordinated with the rotation of the engine in various ways, including a magnetic pickup on the crankshaft that is interpreted by the Electronic Control Unit (ECU), a magnetic pickup on the camshaft coupled to an electronic switching device, and in years gone by, by a set of mechanical contacts usually attached to the camshaft. Various systems will use various names for the components. I would guess "trigger wire" is the signal wire from the pickup coil, and "ignitor" is the electronic device tasked with interpreting that signal and interrupting the current to the coil, although I've never heard these particular terms used.

The rectifier converts AC current produced by the machine's alternator to DC current that can be used to operate the various systems and charge the battery. It's not strictly part of the ignition system.

If you post the schematic for your machine, more specific information may be available. I'm not a pro, but I believe I have a good working understanding of basic vehicle electronics.

If you want to learn more, here is a pretty decent article on small engine ignition systems: https://www.wc314.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=2226&dataid=4234&FileName=CH III Ignition System.pdf
 

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2003 vl 800
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Discussion Starter #3
Battery / coil systems create a spark by interrupting DC current flow from the battery through the primary of a transformer ( the coil) As the electromagnetic field collapses, a high voltage pulse is created in the secondary of the coil, which is connected to the spark plug. This high voltage arcs over the spark plug gap.

The interruption of the primary current is coordinated with the rotation of the engine in various ways, including a magnetic pickup on the crankshaft that is interpreted by the Electronic Control Unit (ECU), a magnetic pickup on the camshaft coupled to an electronic switching device, and in years gone by, by a set of mechanical contacts usually attached to the camshaft. Various systems will use various names for the components. I would guess "trigger wire" is the signal wire from the pickup coil, and "ignitor" is the electronic device tasked with interpreting that signal and interrupting the current to the coil, although I've never heard these particular terms used.

The rectifier converts AC current produced by the machine's alternator to DC current that can be used to operate the various systems and charge the battery. It's not strictly part of the ignition system.

If you post the schematic for your machine, more specific information may be available. I'm not a pro, but I believe I have a good working understanding of basic vehicle electronics.

If you want to learn more, here is a pretty decent article on small engine ignition systems: https://www.wc314.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=2226&dataid=4234&FileName=CH III Ignition System.pdf
I'm always wanting to learn. I will copy all this down and study it for awhile. I have the stock components. I'm just trying to wire up the coils and stuff without any of the accessories and sensors just to make the engine run. I have the wiring diagram but it's been tough trying to teach myself something that I don't know much about. Thank you. Want to get back on the road pretty bad.
 

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Unless you are doing something like changing over from Electronic Fuel Injection to carburetors I don't think that you will find a whole lot of wiring in a motorcycle harness that isn't necessary.

If the wiring schematic is color coded, and you can manage to post a copy here, we could try to talk you through which wires are part of which systems. If it's not color coded, that sort of thing is pretty difficult to do. All the wires look the same on a schematic that is drawn in black and white with no color labels.

In an emergency or recovery situation, I've ridden short distances without lights and other niceties, but it's not safe, and it's not something that I'd recommend.

If you can afford it, buy a cheap 2nd bike in rideable condition just for now, and sell it later for what you paid, so you can take your time on the repairs. Around here, it's still pre-riding season, so there's still some good deals to be had, not to mention other circumstances keeping the market price low.
 

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2003 vl 800
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Discussion Starter #5
Unless you are doing something like changing over from Electronic Fuel Injection to carburetors I don't think that you will find a whole lot of wiring in a motorcycle harness that isn't necessary.

If the wiring schematic is color coded, and you can manage to post a copy here, we could try to talk you through which wires are part of which systems. If it's not color coded, that sort of thing is pretty difficult to do. All the wires look the same on a schematic that is drawn in black and white with no color labels.

In an emergency or recovery situation, I've ridden short distances without lights and other niceties, but it's not safe, and it's not something that I'd recommend.

If you can afford it, buy a cheap 2nd bike in rideable condition just for now, and sell it later for what you paid, so you can take your time on the repairs. Around here, it's still pre-riding season, so there's still some good deals to be had, not to mention other circumstances keeping the market price low.
15875985902105889643853372457223.jpg
 

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I looked at your schematic, and here's my analysis of how the ignition system is wired.

Starting at the battery, 12V+ is routed through the main 30A fuse shown as in the starter relay enclosure, then via RED to the Ignition Switch. Switched power from the Ignition Switch comes out on ORANGE then to the Fuse Box where it feeds Fuses 4, 5 & 6. Fuse 4 serves the Ignition circuit through the ORANGE & YELLOW wire.

Before going to the Ignition circuit, the power is routed through a Safety Relay which is controlled by the Side Stand switch and the Neutral Switch. One or the other of these Switches must be closed to pull in this Safety Relay and power up the Ignition. The same Safety Relay circuit also provides the power for the Starter Switch. A diagram that shows this arrangment more clearly can be seen on page 242 in the VL800 2004 manual that can be viewed here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 242 of 639) The manual uses the name "Turn Signal Side Stand Relay", where I called it a "Safety Relay", because the turn signal function is controlled by an additional relay within the component. The main wiring diagram shows the components of the Safety Relay within the border enclosing the Fuse Box, and more information about it can be found in the manual on page 247.

Ignition System power comes out of the Safety Relay on the ORANGE & BLACK wire and goes next through the Engine Stop Switch and comes out of that switch as ORANGE & WHITE. This goes on to the Starter Button, provides power to the Coils and also to the Ignitor Module, which is the central component of the ignition system.

The WHITE wire and the BLACK & YELLOW wire leading from Ignitor to the Rear Ignition Coil and Front Ignition coil are the primary coil wires. The Ignitor will ground these at the right moment to produce the spark in the Ignition Coil secondary. It appears that the Rear Ignition Coil is not drawn correctly on your diagram. There's a simpler diagram here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 248 of 639).

Connection to the Ignitor:

We discussed the functions of WHITE, BLACK & YELLOW, and ORANGE & WHITE above. I'll discuss what all the other connections are for here.

The BLACK & WHITE wire provide ground for the Ignitor Module.

GREEN and BLUE & WHITE are the connection to the Pickup Coil which is part of the generator assembly. This senses the engine crank position so the Ignitor can decide when to trigger the Ignition Coils and also calculate engine rpm.

BLACK & BROWN, YELLOW and RED & BLUE (2004 manual shows RED not RED & BLUE) are connections to the Throttle Position Sensor. Throttle Position (along with rpm) helps the Ignitor to determine the amount of spark advance that is desirable.

RED & BLACK and GREEN & BLUE are connections to the Gear Position switch. I'm not sure why the gear selection is of interest to the Ignitor. Perhaps this also influences the spark advance.

This covers everything except the ORANGE & RED wire. I'm not sure what that one is for. It appears to be connected to a set of contacts on the Ignition Switch, but unfortunately it's mating contact falls right on the tear in your document. It appears that it might be a switched ground, but those are not wire colors that are traditionally used for ground.

On any machine subject to the elements and to vibration, like a motorcycle, every active component, and every switch contact, and even every connection is a potential problem point. Once one understands the system, one can trace through the system methodically, and make sure that proper connections are being made, that power is present where it should be, and that grounds connections are low resistance.

I can definitely see some room for simplification of this system, provided one is willing to accept the responsibility for potential loss of safety and functionality. I won't make any suggestions, but if you have further questions, you can ask.

Was your existing wire harness trashed in a fire or accident, or why are you in the position of needing to reconstruct it?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I looked at your schematic, and here's my analysis of how the ignition system is wired.

Starting at the battery, 12V+ is routed through the main 30A fuse shown as in the starter relay enclosure, then via RED to the Ignition Switch. Switched power from the Ignition Switch comes out on ORANGE then to the Fuse Box where it feeds Fuses 4, 5 & 6. Fuse 4 serves the Ignition circuit through the ORANGE & YELLOW wire.

Before going to the Ignition circuit, the power is routed through a Safety Relay which is controlled by the Side Stand switch and the Neutral Switch. One or the other of these Switches must be closed to pull in this Safety Relay and power up the Ignition. The same Safety Relay circuit also provides the power for the Starter Switch. A diagram that shows this arrangment more clearly can be seen on page 242 in the VL800 2004 manual that can be viewed here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 242 of 639) The manual uses the name "Turn Signal Side Stand Relay", where I called it a "Safety Relay", because the turn signal function is controlled by an additional relay within the component. The main wiring diagram shows the components of the Safety Relay within the border enclosing the Fuse Box, and more information about it can be found in the manual on page 247.

Ignition System power comes out of the Safety Relay on the ORANGE & BLACK wire and goes next through the Engine Stop Switch and comes out of that switch as ORANGE & WHITE. This goes on to the Starter Button, provides power to the Coils and also to the Ignitor Module, which is the central component of the ignition system.

The WHITE wire and the BLACK & YELLOW wire leading from Ignitor to the Rear Ignition Coil and Front Ignition coil are the primary coil wires. The Ignitor will ground these at the right moment to produce the spark in the Ignition Coil secondary. It appears that the Rear Ignition Coil is not drawn correctly on your diagram. There's a simpler diagram here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 248 of 639).

Connection to the Ignitor:

We discussed the functions of WHITE, BLACK & YELLOW, and ORANGE & WHITE above. I'll discuss what all the other connections are for here.

The BLACK & WHITE wire provide ground for the Ignitor Module.

GREEN and BLUE & WHITE are the connection to the Pickup Coil which is part of the generator assembly. This senses the engine crank position so the Ignitor can decide when to trigger the Ignition Coils and also calculate engine rpm.

BLACK & BROWN, YELLOW and RED & BLUE (2004 manual shows RED not RED & BLUE) are connections to the Throttle Position Sensor. Throttle Position (along with rpm) helps the Ignitor to determine the amount of spark advance that is desirable.

RED & BLACK and GREEN & BLUE are connections to the Gear Position switch. I'm not sure why the gear selection is of interest to the Ignitor. Perhaps this also influences the spark advance.

This covers everything except the ORANGE & RED wire. I'm not sure what that one is for. It appears to be connected to a set of contacts on the Ignition Switch, but unfortunately it's mating contact falls right on the tear in your document. It appears that it might be a switched ground, but those are not wire colors that are traditionally used for ground.

On any machine subject to the elements and to vibration, like a motorcycle, every active component, and every switch contact, and even every connection is a potential problem point. Once one understands the system, one can trace through the system methodically, and make sure that proper connections are being made, that power is present where it should be, and that grounds connections are low resistance.

I can definitely see some room for simplification of this system, provided one is willing to accept the responsibility for potential loss of safety and functionality. I won't make any suggestions, but if you have further questions, you can ask.

Was your existing wire harness trashed in a fire or accident, or why are you in the position of needing to reconstruct it?
That is very helpful information, thank you for taking the time to help me. I opened up the harness to try and get a understanding of it and due to the lack of knowledge, and patients, I made the problem worse and cut to many things up. I've got so many hrs and days into this and have learned alot in the process. I'm trying to learn as much as possible especially with this virus going on, since the shops slow now.
I looked at your schematic, and here's my analysis of how the ignition system is wired.

Starting at the battery, 12V+ is routed through the main 30A fuse shown as in the starter relay enclosure, then via RED to the Ignition Switch. Switched power from the Ignition Switch comes out on ORANGE then to the Fuse Box where it feeds Fuses 4, 5 & 6. Fuse 4 serves the Ignition circuit through the ORANGE & YELLOW wire.

Before going to the Ignition circuit, the power is routed through a Safety Relay which is controlled by the Side Stand switch and the Neutral Switch. One or the other of these Switches must be closed to pull in this Safety Relay and power up the Ignition. The same Safety Relay circuit also provides the power for the Starter Switch. A diagram that shows this arrangment more clearly can be seen on page 242 in the VL800 2004 manual that can be viewed here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 242 of 639) The manual uses the name "Turn Signal Side Stand Relay", where I called it a "Safety Relay", because the turn signal function is controlled by an additional relay within the component. The main wiring diagram shows the components of the Safety Relay within the border enclosing the Fuse Box, and more information about it can be found in the manual on page 247.

Ignition System power comes out of the Safety Relay on the ORANGE & BLACK wire and goes next through the Engine Stop Switch and comes out of that switch as ORANGE & WHITE. This goes on to the Starter Button, provides power to the Coils and also to the Ignitor Module, which is the central component of the ignition system.

The WHITE wire and the BLACK & YELLOW wire leading from Ignitor to the Rear Ignition Coil and Front Ignition coil are the primary coil wires. The Ignitor will ground these at the right moment to produce the spark in the Ignition Coil secondary. It appears that the Rear Ignition Coil is not drawn correctly on your diagram. There's a simpler diagram here: Suzuki VL800 Service Manual (Page 248 of 639).

Connection to the Ignitor:

We discussed the functions of WHITE, BLACK & YELLOW, and ORANGE & WHITE above. I'll discuss what all the other connections are for here.

The BLACK & WHITE wire provide ground for the Ignitor Module.

GREEN and BLUE & WHITE are the connection to the Pickup Coil which is part of the generator assembly. This senses the engine crank position so the Ignitor can decide when to trigger the Ignition Coils and also calculate engine rpm.

BLACK & BROWN, YELLOW and RED & BLUE (2004 manual shows RED not RED & BLUE) are connections to the Throttle Position Sensor. Throttle Position (along with rpm) helps the Ignitor to determine the amount of spark advance that is desirable.

RED & BLACK and GREEN & BLUE are connections to the Gear Position switch. I'm not sure why the gear selection is of interest to the Ignitor. Perhaps this also influences the spark advance.

This covers everything except the ORANGE & RED wire. I'm not sure what that one is for. It appears to be connected to a set of contacts on the Ignition Switch, but unfortunately it's mating contact falls right on the tear in your document. It appears that it might be a switched ground, but those are not wire colors that are traditionally used for ground.

On any machine subject to the elements and to vibration, like a motorcycle, every active component, and every switch contact, and even every connection is a potential problem point. Once one understands the system, one can trace through the system methodically, and make sure that proper connections are being made, that power is present where it should be, and that grounds connections are low resistance.

I can definitely see some room for simplification of this system, provided one is willing to accept the responsibility for potential loss of safety and functionality. I won't make any suggestions, but if you have further questions, you can ask.

Was your existing wire harness trashed in a fire or accident, or why are you in the position of needing to reconstruct it?
I am very interested in your ideas on bypassing certain things to simplify this diagram. I look forward to hearing back from you and am very appreciative
 

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Looks like somebody should consider investing in a printer!?

Rather than make suggestions on what could be stripped away from the harness, my suggestion is that YOU list each connection that you would like to remove and suggest why you think it could be and should be removed. This seems like more of a learning experience for both of us, and nobody is incurring liability for suggesting changes that could get people hurt.

I'll start out by saying that, short of replacing the Ignitor by a whole different system, which might require a different type of input signal, you definitely need to keep the power and ground for the Ignitor, which are ORANGE & WHITE and BLACK & WHITE, respectively, as well as the connections that trigger the individual coils, which are WHITE and BLACK & YELLOW. You'll also need the input from the pickup coil, GREEN and BLUE & WHITE. All these seem essential.

That said, the path the power takes getting to ORANGE & WHITE is rather complicated. Back in the old days, turning an ignition switch on generally meant the ignition was powered up. On your machine, things are more complicated. The additional circuitry is protecting you from riding off with your kickstand down, and also from firing up the engine while in gear, both of which can lead to a mishap,. But, if a guy was in a situation where his starter was out, and he wanted to bump start his machine by pushing it with a buddy, or riding it down a hill, (both of which are arguably more hazardous than pushing it into the back of a truck to drive it to the mechanic), the way the bike is wired now would seem to prevent that. I must admit though, I'm not entirely understanding the safety system, because once the engine is running, clearly it continues to run with the clutch lever out and the transmission in gear.
 
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