Motorcycle Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

· Biker
Joined
·
1,547 Posts
Greetings Weston,

To be quite frank with you, upgrading charging system would have NOTHING to do with the neutral light, which as I know tells
you the transmission is not 'in gear' to drive the rear wheel.

Upgrading the stator and charging system means most likely you could get more electrical output at idle and higher speeds,
the stator connects to the R/R rectifier/regulator then most likely negative of R/R/s output is grounded and HOT or positive
to battery + whether it connects to bat+ before or after ignition switch does not matter. The rectifier allows + side of a.c. from
stator to go to battery and battery CAN NOT discharge through stator if R/R is good.

When the key is 'ON' everything will work as it has been, a given amount of current is able to flow through fuse, Now we have series
and parallel circuits, The neutral indicator lamp has one side wired to a hot wire that supplies other circuits. For it to be lit, current
must flow through it to ground, and that ONLY happens when part of tranny presses switch , thus closing contacts in sw. and
completing circuit to ground.


The horn is also in a series circuit, it won't sound until 12v+ is applied to it, other side of horn is grounded.
Series means, current has to flow through item 1 before it can go to item 2, Parallel means current branches off to whatever items,
removing item 1, current still goes to item 2, items 1 and 2 could be tail-lite bulbs,say 1157's with two filaments, bulbs get brighter
with brakes applied or L or R when that dir. sig sw. is pressed.

The starter circuit, Power goes to the engine run sw. a.k.a. kill sw. when 'ON' it supplies power to the ignition circuit for spark,
it also sends power to one side of the start sw., when you thumb the starter, it energizes a powerful electromagnet which pulls
in an armature mechanically linked to heavy contacts, ( against a spring) a strong field is needed to bridge between battery and
starter otherwise heavy current will burn out loose contacts.

Batteries that have been on a charger for a few days and still don't seem to have all they should be should be 'tested under load' then
the true condition of the battery will be known. Hope you liked the extra reading, always good to know how electricity works on a
motorcycle.
 

· Save them all!
Joined
·
3,973 Posts
I got rid of my old CB450 stuff a while ago so I can't verify it, but Ray is likely correct - I don't think the neutral light will be effected. If it is it would probably be pretty easy to wire something up to make it work again.

IF you want to improve something about your charging system, and assuming your current stator tests OK (ohm test and AC Output test on all three branches) I would put my money into a modern solid state regulator/rectifier. The old school units you have very often go bad.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@cmonSTART thanks for all your help with each of my issues! And thank you both for the responses here.

Because I am having charging issues I will test the charging system then take the stator out to see if it looks gunked up or worn out. I will want to replace the rectifier and regulator. thinking about this product:

R/R
https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Honda-Rectifier-Regulator-10_135H

Doesn't look like licks electronics makes a stator, rectifier/regulator kit for the CB450K like they do for the CB350
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

· Biker
Joined
·
1,547 Posts
charging system

Before messing with stator, make sure battery is UP for the job it has, put on trickle charger.
A battery tender is the best, H-D has one that puts out 3/4 of an amp or 750 mili-amps and will
have battery topped off, put on charger for a few days if it had some charge to it, the tender
should have it topped off to 100% or pretty close.

Then bring battery to a bike shop an pay a few $$ to have them do a
'LOAD TEST' or if you have one, the meter an heater coil type with the 3 bands of color red/yellow/green.
use as tester says, if needle goes well into green, that is nice BUT it is the 2nd test that really makes a
difference, if needle stays well into green, I'd keep the battery BUT if it goes into or hugs the yellow or goes
somewhat closer to it, Then come back slowly to green that is, to me anyways, NOT indicative of a
dependable battery.

If the battery showed up as 'Good' on the load tester, start bike and take note as to how it sounds when being
cranked and how long before it fires. My wide glide with the 103 engine and a new battery would take about
4 or 5 seconds to start, with the battery on a tender though, it took half that time, meaning it 'whipped right
over, like with no effort.check voltage across battery, it should be close to 14 volts hopefully above by a few
tenths

If the charge voltage is not much above battery when bike is running, it could be the R/R is defective, this
can go both ways, not enough volts to charge or too many, for the most part 15 volts is high so anything
over that is going to put extra stress on lamps and on-board computer which would most likely cause an
'electrical troubles lamp' to come on anyway, due to low charging volts or hi charging volts. If there is NO
difference in voltage with bike running, than I would say there is a battery charging fuse that went bad

I'd say if volts are high, 15 or above, r/r is most likely messing up but stator is good as a stator with a
shorted or grounded winding would put out less than what service manual says it should for the rpm.

SO, to check stator, unplug from regulator and do an ohm test to ground, if you have continuity, the stator
winding is BAD and must be replaced. Now, there are two types of stator, single phase 2 wire, or 3 phase
3 wire, continuity to ground in either type is no good.

IF there are no shorts to ground, check a.c. voltage to see if it complies with service manual.If a.c. volts
are what manual says they should be, than it is the R/R. that is highly likely to have failed.

For a single phase winding, two leads from stator, on my Sporty1200, H-D says between 19 to 26 volts a.c.
per 1000 rpm so at 2,000 rpm I should get between 38 to 52 volts, so I'd suspect a.c. volts in this range on
other bikes with this type of stator would likely give good results.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Before messing with stator, make sure battery is UP for the job it has, put on trickle charger.
A battery tender is the best, H-D has one that puts out 3/4 of an amp or 750 mili-amps and will
have battery topped off, put on charger for a few days if it had some charge to it, the tender
should have it topped off to 100% or pretty close.

Then bring battery to a bike shop an pay a few $$ to have them do a
'LOAD TEST' or if you have one, the meter an heater coil type with the 3 bands of color red/yellow/green.
use as tester says, if needle goes well into green, that is nice BUT it is the 2nd test that really makes a
difference, if needle stays well into green, I'd keep the battery BUT if it goes into or hugs the yellow or goes
somewhat closer to it, Then come back slowly to green that is, to me anyways, NOT indicative of a
dependable battery.

If the battery showed up as 'Good' on the load tester, start bike and take note as to how it sounds when being
cranked and how long before it fires. My wide glide with the 103 engine and a new battery would take about
4 or 5 seconds to start, with the battery on a tender though, it took half that time, meaning it 'whipped right
over, like with no effort.check voltage across battery, it should be close to 14 volts hopefully above by a few
tenths

If the charge voltage is not much above battery when bike is running, it could be the R/R is defective, this
can go both ways, not enough volts to charge or too many, for the most part 15 volts is high so anything
over that is going to put extra stress on lamps and on-board computer which would most likely cause an
'electrical troubles lamp' to come on anyway, due to low charging volts or hi charging volts. If there is NO
difference in voltage with bike running, than I would say there is a battery charging fuse that went bad

I'd say if volts are high, 15 or above, r/r is most likely messing up but stator is good as a stator with a
shorted or grounded winding would put out less than what service manual says it should for the rpm.

SO, to check stator, unplug from regulator and do an ohm test to ground, if you have continuity, the stator
winding is BAD and must be replaced. Now, there are two types of stator, single phase 2 wire, or 3 phase
3 wire, continuity to ground in either type is no good.

IF there are no shorts to ground, check a.c. voltage to see if it complies with service manual.If a.c. volts
are what manual says they should be, than it is the R/R. that is highly likely to have failed.

For a single phase winding, two leads from stator, on my Sporty1200, H-D says between 19 to 26 volts a.c.
per 1000 rpm so at 2,000 rpm I should get between 38 to 52 volts, so I'd suspect a.c. volts in this range on
other bikes with this type of stator would likely give good results.
Damn, Ray! Thank you for putting this in layman's terms for me. my 12v lead acid is reading 9.5V at 3000 RPM, at 8.5V on the workbench, so it is definitely bad. I think I need a good battery to get accurate readings when I carry out the tests above. Looks like I'm going back to Batteries+Bulbs tonight.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well shoot. Are you the same one on another thread about Loosing power? Either way I posted there about a mosfit set up. I would do it again but on my phone and it is a PITA to copy much less type anything.
Hey Aphrodite, yeah I'm all over the place. Trying to keep different issues in different threads so not to confuse everyone! Saw your post over there THANK YOU! Will respond.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top