Car tires on motorcycles?
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I'm asking straight forward questions in a respectful manner because I want to make sure I understand what you're saying and what you believe. How is that a "pissing contest?"
Do you feel threatened or something?
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If you have a real question about this subject, I'll be happy to respond. Understand I don't hold myself out as an 'expert' in this ct vs. mt area, only a practitioner. I have been following Darksiding for over ten years, so I have read many posts and articles about it. Just as some folks only want to use what the manufacturer recommends, whether in tires, oil, parts, clothing, etc., others look for something better.
If one of your questions is about the edge shape of the tires (it's hard to tell), then yes, the edges on most cts are somewhat square. But in a turn, the bt follows the curve of the tire, while with a ct, the outside edge will bend up such that there is still perhaps 1/3 of the bottom on the pavement. The amount depends on the ct being a radial with flexible sides and the air pressure. Due to the much higher capacity of the ct, the pressure can be at 30# which gives more rubber on the road and much softer ride. That's the 'feel'. For performance, I would suggest reading some of the many posts on the very aggressive riders using their Gold Wings such that only an expert on a sport bike can outperform them. Read here:
Darkside Riders - GL1800Riders
Some riders:
As to the ct not fitting on the mc rim, well, it seems to work just fine. I have never heard of anyone, even those who didn't like riding on a ct, ever complaining about a ct coming off a rim.
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Darksiding
I put a car tire on the back of my Suzuki Burgman 650 about 3 years ago and it was one of the hippest things I have ever done! Sticks to the road like I am on a rail, outstanding handling, secure super cornering, fastest stops, smoother ride, better fuel milage, almost 10 K and no sign of wear. Slightly more wobbly on some grated bridges, but not enough to change my mind. I keep it at 36-88psi for super hi way, 30-32psi for city. There were lots of threads here that helped me get the right tire, and instructions for the wrench to help him get it mounted, which was a challenge. But even he, who was seriously a naysayer became a convert after one short ride on my scoot.
I put a car tire on the back of my Suzuki Burgman 650 about 3 years ago and it was one of the hippest things I have ever done! Sticks to the road like I am on a rail, outstanding handling, secure super cornering, fastest stops, smoother ride, better fuel milage, almost 10 K and no sign of wear. Slightly more wobbly on some grated bridges, but not enough to change my mind. I keep it at 36-88psi for super hi way, 30-32psi for city. There were lots of threads here that helped me get the right tire, and instructions for the wrench to help him get it mounted, which was a challenge. But even he, who was seriously a naysayer became a convert after one short ride on my scoot.
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My past 2012 Burgman 650 Executive also had a rear car tire:grin:
My past Suzuki C109 Cruiser and my past Triumph Rocket 3 Roadster had 240/ 250 series rear tires which were wider than most cars and almost a square pattern but both handled very well:wink2:
If I still have my CTX1300D when it needs a rear tire, I will put a car tire on it like 'Rollin' has on his.:smile:
Sam:nerd:
My past Suzuki C109 Cruiser and my past Triumph Rocket 3 Roadster had 240/ 250 series rear tires which were wider than most cars and almost a square pattern but both handled very well:wink2:
If I still have my CTX1300D when it needs a rear tire, I will put a car tire on it like 'Rollin' has on his.:smile:
Sam:nerd:
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Dunlop has enough verbiage under the Care and Maintenance section to cover their butt against things many do on a regular basis. I haven't gone Darkside but have considered it because of the gravel roads I ride. But I already violate 2 other areas. I use Ride-On which they say not to do and I have 42/44 pounds of air in front/rear which is over their 40 pound limit. So going Darkside would be no big deal. If they could get away with it I'm sure they would like to add one more saying...Do Not Use On Asphalt or Concrete roads. All this legal **** is pure BS as far as I'm concerned. I suspect all other brands of tires have similar statements like the following. Point here is many of us already do stuff that would violate a warranty issue on tires. I had considered Darkside but glad I didn't because I had a warranty issue on a TPMS sensor and my dealer would not have changed it if I had a car tire mounted. They get you one way or the other when it comes to CT's even if you want to in many cases.:crying:
16 - Wheel Balance
It is essential that tire/wheel assemblies be balanced before use and rebalanced each time the tire is removed or replaced. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at certain speeds, and tire wear will be greatly accelerated.
All Dunlop street tires should be installed with the balance dot at the valve. Wheels may be balanced with spoke nipple weights, lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights. Consult the motorcycle manufacturer for approved wheel weights.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of dry or liquid balancers/sealers and will not warrant tires into which these materials have been injected. Tire and wheel assembly balance must be checked with a balance stand or computer wheel balancer.
22 - Tire Mounting
Danger: Only specially trained persons should mount tires. Improper mounting can cause tire explosion and serious injury.
Follow these mounting precautions:
Wear approved eye protection.
Clean and lubricate beads and rim.
Centralize rim band and tube to prevent pinching if tube-type rim.
Note directional arrows on sidewall where applicable.
Lock assembly on mounting machine or place in safety cage before inflating to seat beads.
Set air hose relief valve at 40 psi.
Use extension gauge and hose with clip-on air chuck. Stand back with no part of your body within the perimeter of the assembled tire and rim.
Inflate with core in valve stem.
Never inflate above 40 psi to seat beads.*
Spin wheel to check bead seating and alignment.
*If the beads do not seat by 40 psi, deflate and repeat above procedures. Never use a volatile substance or rubber donut to aid bead seating. If the tire is a tube-type, deflate and reinflate after seating to prevent tube wrinkles.
D402 PT bead-lock tires may be mounted only on matching Harley-Davidson FXRP, FLHTP or FLHP rims. Consult the owner’s manual and refer to the vehicle service manual for special tire-mounting instructions.
23 - Never Mount Passenger-Car Tires on Motorcycle Rims
Never mount passenger-car tires on motorcycle rims.
16 - Wheel Balance
It is essential that tire/wheel assemblies be balanced before use and rebalanced each time the tire is removed or replaced. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at certain speeds, and tire wear will be greatly accelerated.
All Dunlop street tires should be installed with the balance dot at the valve. Wheels may be balanced with spoke nipple weights, lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights. Consult the motorcycle manufacturer for approved wheel weights.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of dry or liquid balancers/sealers and will not warrant tires into which these materials have been injected. Tire and wheel assembly balance must be checked with a balance stand or computer wheel balancer.
22 - Tire Mounting
Danger: Only specially trained persons should mount tires. Improper mounting can cause tire explosion and serious injury.
Follow these mounting precautions:
Wear approved eye protection.
Clean and lubricate beads and rim.
Centralize rim band and tube to prevent pinching if tube-type rim.
Note directional arrows on sidewall where applicable.
Lock assembly on mounting machine or place in safety cage before inflating to seat beads.
Set air hose relief valve at 40 psi.
Use extension gauge and hose with clip-on air chuck. Stand back with no part of your body within the perimeter of the assembled tire and rim.
Inflate with core in valve stem.
Never inflate above 40 psi to seat beads.*
Spin wheel to check bead seating and alignment.
*If the beads do not seat by 40 psi, deflate and repeat above procedures. Never use a volatile substance or rubber donut to aid bead seating. If the tire is a tube-type, deflate and reinflate after seating to prevent tube wrinkles.
D402 PT bead-lock tires may be mounted only on matching Harley-Davidson FXRP, FLHTP or FLHP rims. Consult the owner’s manual and refer to the vehicle service manual for special tire-mounting instructions.
23 - Never Mount Passenger-Car Tires on Motorcycle Rims
Never mount passenger-car tires on motorcycle rims.
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Larry, a 'Car' tire on the back of your Indian would be a BIG improvement on your gravel and dirt roads and I say this from experience:grin:
The much wider and 'flat' bottom profile just has more surface area than a rounded motorcycle tread bottom and doesn't feel like it 'hunts' and moves around much:wink2:
There is a HUGE cost savings in buying and installing car tires on a motorcycle since they typically cost 1/3 as much and last 3-5 times longer and carry heavy weight much better:smile_big:
Handling: Let's face it, 60 to 80 year old 'Seasoned' and very experienced riders know that their 'Barco-Lazy boy lounger' LARGE touring bike or HEAVY cruiser must be ridden with common sense all the time but especially in the curves:surprise:
Chances of 'US' racing our sleds in the 'Isle of Man TT race" and following Jorge Lorenzo or Valentino Rossi and exceeding 60 mph as they approach 200 mph, is non-existent :grin:
Common sense should prevail :wink2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Isle of Man TT&title=Special:Search
Sam:nerd:
The much wider and 'flat' bottom profile just has more surface area than a rounded motorcycle tread bottom and doesn't feel like it 'hunts' and moves around much:wink2:
There is a HUGE cost savings in buying and installing car tires on a motorcycle since they typically cost 1/3 as much and last 3-5 times longer and carry heavy weight much better:smile_big:
Handling: Let's face it, 60 to 80 year old 'Seasoned' and very experienced riders know that their 'Barco-Lazy boy lounger' LARGE touring bike or HEAVY cruiser must be ridden with common sense all the time but especially in the curves:surprise:
Chances of 'US' racing our sleds in the 'Isle of Man TT race" and following Jorge Lorenzo or Valentino Rossi and exceeding 60 mph as they approach 200 mph, is non-existent :grin:
Common sense should prevail :wink2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Isle of Man TT&title=Special:Search
Sam:nerd:
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16,297 Posts
That's what I was doing, asking a real question. LOL. Or questions, I guess.
I wanted to get your opinion on why car tires aren't used on the front. I don't want to read through a bunch of posts on another forum as that will take a lot of time, probably bore me, and possibly not answer my question anyway. Since you are an advocate of car tires and on this forum I wanted to get your direct opinion. I can ask you for clarification if needed but I can't on another forum.I think what you're saying is that (paraphrasing here) it's merely because they don't feel right on the front. They handle okay and there's no safety issues as far as handling goes, but people just don't like the feel. Have I got that right?
As for a car tire coming off the rim? It's happened. The problem is we have no way of knowing how much a risk there is of that happening. They could be completely safe or there could be a danger there. That kind of data is not collected in any way that I have ever found. Until cops start looking at tires at motorcycle wrecks and recording what they find we won't have enough actual data to really know how safe or not they are.
Some people will point to thousands upon thousands of miles with no problems, and although that is encouraging it does not give a complete picture. I smoked for 25 years and never got cancer so smoking is safe? It took a long time for them to figure out it wasn't. But whatever. I was interested in your opinion on why they aren't popular on the front.
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Hmm....Obviously you have never ridden in northwestern New Jersey!
Ya know, it ain't all like the Jersey Turnpike or Camden or Newark!
Out here, we have some of the most beautiful back roads you have ever seen, with little or no traffic on them.
Of course, you COULD ride Route 80 or the Turnpike.
I wish you luck. LOL!!!
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I cannot explicitly answer why car tires do not work well on the front of a bike. I know that some bikers used to use them some years ago, but I never read any comments on how well they handled. I suppose if they worked well, many would still be using them. But now I only hear/read of comments on that individuals don't use them. I may have read that they don't handle well, but I don't remember. I would remember if someone said they crashed and burned on a car tire. No one that I have read/heard from in the last 5-10 years say they want to use that setup.
I have read of a number of riders who have crashed from mt blowouts--as you might recall I did that with a mt on the back of my Gold Wing as I was on the freeway at 70 mph. Separated into 3 unconnected pieces. Not fun. That is one reason why I want my next tire on my new, larger rear tired Eluder to be a run flat which only comes with car tires. That is a common reason why many riders use them.
As I mentioned, I have never read of anyone having a ct come off a mt rim. I have read of maybe a couple of dozen riders who have tried a ct on the rear and didn't like them due to a different handling than they were used to. I suspect in many of those cases there were two reasons. First is they probably rode with the same air pressure as with their bt which is usually too high for best handling on a ct on a bike. A lower pressure lets the radial flex on the road surface when in tire worn tracks in the roadway and in corners. (Some folks are hung up on the OEM pressure and can't let themselves vary for different situations.)
The second main reason is that some riders have entered into using a ct with such reluctance that they prejudiced themselves before they even got on the bike. But that happens with many things, doesn't it?
What I would really like to see is a magazine with the willingness to run back to back tests on two bikes using both ct and mt and compare the findings. Things like traction, skid control, cone riding, speed tests, comfort, mileage, and even to the extent of trying to make both tires come off the rim and cornering like a sport bike. But no one wants to be responsible for anything, I suppose. The best we have are individuals on web sites sharing their experience. Then anecdotal is better than nothing. It's kind of like buying something on Amazon. And unless Consumer Reports reviews the item, then the reviews and number of stars is all we have (and if you notice, those who are displeased seem to be more willing to comment--which we could take as an observation of lack of negative Darkside webs).
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I cannot explicitly answer why car tires do not work well on the front of a bike. I know that some bikers used to use them some years ago, but I never read any comments on how well they handled. I suppose if they worked well, many would still be using them. But now I only hear/read of comments on that individuals don't use them. I may have read that they don't handle well, but I don't remember. I would remember if someone said they crashed and burned on a car tire. No one that I have read/heard from in the last 5-10 years say they want to use that setup.
I have read of a number of riders who have crashed from mt blowouts--as you might recall I did that with a mt on the back of my Gold Wing as I was on the freeway at 70 mph. Separated into 3 unconnected pieces. Not fun. That is one reason why I want my next tire on my new, larger rear tired Eluder to be a run flat which only comes with car tires. That is a common reason why many riders use them.
As I mentioned, I have never read of anyone having a ct come off a mt rim. I have read of maybe a couple of dozen riders who have tried a ct on the rear and didn't like them due to a different handling than they were used to. I suspect in many of those cases there were two reasons. First is they probably rode with the same air pressure as with their bt which is usually too high for best handling on a ct on a bike. A lower pressure lets the radial flex on the road surface when in tire worn tracks in the roadway and in corners. (Some folks are hung up on the OEM pressure and can't let themselves vary for different situations.)
The second main reason is that some riders have entered into using a ct with such reluctance that they prejudiced themselves before they even got on the bike. But that happens with many things, doesn't it?
What I would really like to see is a magazine with the willingness to run back to back tests on two bikes using both ct and mt and compare the findings. Things like traction, skid control, cone riding, speed tests, comfort, mileage, and even to the extent of trying to make both tires come off the rim and cornering like a sport bike. But no one wants to be responsible for anything, I suppose. The best we have are individuals on web sites sharing their experience. Then anecdotal is better than nothing. It's kind of like buying something on Amazon. And unless Consumer Reports reviews the item, then the reviews and number of stars is all we have (and if you notice, those who are displeased seem to be more willing to comment--which we could take as an observation of lack of negative Darkside webs).
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I do believe that a bike that has ABS and traction control has to have the exact same size and type tire that the system was designed for to make the system work correctly. Maybe I'm wrong??:surprise:
I also have heard that it's really important if a motorcyclist runs a car tire on the back that they run a higher pressure than the tire sidewall says to keep the tire well seated against a rim not designed for a car tirelain:
A person initially riding their own bike after a car tire installation will have to get used to a 'different' feel than they are used to. Cornering feels a little different at first but the feeling is probably psychological. I found that the 'Interstate' ride was greatly improved though and more sure footed. Hard breaking using the rear brake, on my bike with ABS felt different? Since there was much more traction with much more tread on the road the ABS 'modulation' through the pedal felt odd at first---this was only under hard intentional breaking though.
Sam:nerd:
I also have heard that it's really important if a motorcyclist runs a car tire on the back that they run a higher pressure than the tire sidewall says to keep the tire well seated against a rim not designed for a car tire
lain:A person initially riding their own bike after a car tire installation will have to get used to a 'different' feel than they are used to. Cornering feels a little different at first but the feeling is probably psychological. I found that the 'Interstate' ride was greatly improved though and more sure footed. Hard breaking using the rear brake, on my bike with ABS felt different? Since there was much more traction with much more tread on the road the ABS 'modulation' through the pedal felt odd at first---this was only under hard intentional breaking though.
Sam:nerd:
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--I do believe that a bike that has ABS and traction control has to have the exact same size and type tire that the system was designed for to make the system work correctly. Maybe I'm wrong??:surprise:
If this were so, then if one tire was new and the other mostly worn down (very common) then these controls would always be off for a while.
I also have heard that it's really important if a motorcyclist runs a car tire on the back that they run a higher pressure than the tire sidewall says to keep the tire well seated against a rim not designed for a car tire
No, this is not true. In fact many Darksiders use only about 28-32# in their rear. The tire stays seated just fine.
A person initially riding their own bike after a car tire installation will have to get used to a 'different' feel than they are used to. Cornering feels a little different at first but the feeling is probably psychological. I found that the 'Interstate' ride was greatly improved though and more sure footed. Hard breaking using the rear brake, on my bike with ABS felt different? Since there was much more traction with much more tread on the road the ABS 'modulation' through the pedal felt odd at first---this was only under hard intentional breaking though.
I have read of a number of riders who use their rear brake much more. It would seem that the traction should be better not from 'friction' as much as from the usually larger number of sipes and rain grooves, which should grab better. Although I don't have any facts to show this.
Sam:nerd:
Note my bold responses above.
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2,108 Posts
I know all that you stated above is concurred in what I heard .
Say @RonK when you run the rear tire on the front do you flip it with the direction arrow running backwards or do you just put in with the direction of the arrow. I have heard it both ways but only one bike I ever owned I have used a rear tire on the front and I flipped it backwards and had no issues but really never understood the reasoning either just took their word on the matter?
Say @RonK when you run the rear tire on the front do you flip it with the direction arrow running backwards or do you just put in with the direction of the arrow. I have heard it both ways but only one bike I ever owned I have used a rear tire on the front and I flipped it backwards and had no issues but really never understood the reasoning either just took their word on the matter?
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I usually run it 'backwards' for no good reason, but about half way through its wearing out (around 15,000 miles) it will start to develop ridges on the blocks, so I remove the wheel, turn it around and run it the other way to wear the blocks the opposite. You can only do this if you have a wheel that is not directional due to a rotor. Or I suppose you could remount the tire the other way.
Now some will say you should run backwards so the rain grooves will push water out better. If that were the case when the tire is on the rear, then you will have good rain dispersal when accelerating but poor when stopping, or vice-versa. That sounds screwy to me. Maybe it doesn't really matter that much. As to the plies being pushed the wrong way and separating, I doubt that will happen since I have never read of anybody saying their plies were coming apart as the tire aged. Either they get a puncture hole or the tread wears out.
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No. Never had a problem with bead sealing.
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