[WyattJohn]

So we all know about HD’s slipping sales the last few years. After pricing out their core demo https://pnrstatus.vip/graphic for so long, and not taking the competition seriously until it was too late, they don’t have much time left to turn around the slump . Do you think they’ll be able to do it? Or are they just too far behind the curve? https://sarkariresult.onl/1

 

[vistavette]

So we all know about HD’s slipping sales the last few years. After pricing out their core demographic for so long, and not taking the competition seriously until it was too late, they don’t have much time left to turn around the slump . Do you think they’ll be able to do it? Or are they just too far behind the curve?

I see Harley surviving as a successful, but much smaller, player. To continue to hold the massive market share they had and continue to have, is nearly impossible. It was an impressive run, one I'm sure econ professors will use in college courses, but I think it's time HD took it's seat with the rest of the players. That is, of course, unless they pull some sort of magic "must have" out if their hat.

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[dcstrng]

I see Harley surviving as a successful, but much smaller, player... I think it's time HD took it's seat with the rest of the players.

Yep, I agree -- there will always be a rider who want's the Harley, but the demographic that bought the Harley traditions is not riding nearly as much, and they aren't ready to drop $25-$40K on a bike that is largely an antique (albeit with modern electronics and metallurgy), when there are so many other more refined options -- not to mention the next generations simply don't place much value on WWII-esque engineering --no matter how well it is disguised...

I don't see Harley folding, but their days of easy market dominance have passed -- too many hungrier players out there...

Would I ride another one -- yep, sure would... am I willing to pay extra for the privilege; nope, not a chance

 

[vistavette]

Yep, I agree -- there will always be a rider who want's the Harley, but the demographic that bought the Harley traditions is not riding nearly as much, and they aren't ready to drop $25-$40K on a bike that is largely an antique (albeit with modern electronics and metallurgy), when there are so many other more refined options -- not to mention the next generations simply don't place much value on WWII-esque engineering --no matter how well it is disguised...

I don't see Harley folding, but their days of easy market dominance have passed -- too many hungrier players out there...

Would I ride another one -- yep, sure would... am I willing to pay extra for the privilege; nope, not a chance

One thing I want to point out: Many people who don't know anything about HD really do believe that they're actually selling antiques. The only thing that is antique about Harley is the styling, which is what attracts me to the product, similar to Triumph and their "Modern Classic" line. They look old, but they're not. Harley's (and Triumphs) are as up to date as anything else. Just because they use a V-Twin doesn't make them antiquated. Its just like my Corvette C7, it's pushrod V8 isn't the same as the 1955 small block. Heritage, yes. Same? No.

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[cattzap]

I thiink Harley is doing it's marketing based on rider pride. Around my area, you aint noithin unless your riding a Harley. It's somewhat working around here. There was talk when I was shopping that if you go to a place and your not riding one, you can't park in certain areas, but that's all bunk. Also if you ride with a group, they have to go first. Bunk also. And you can't wear a shirt with the logo on it unless you own one. That's ok with me. I'm not the person that buys an $85 T shirt just because of a logo on it. I don't see them failing but I do see them not selling because of price. I have a buddy who paid $42k for a bike and I paid $3500 for mine. They both go the same place at the same speed. He has payment for the next 10 yrs and mine is paid for. Plus he has to have everything done at the dealer to keep his warranty. I just clickity click on Amazon and get the parts tomorrow, like my brake pads for $15 for the whole set and it takes me 30 minutes to change them. The wheel bearings were $35 for all of them and I got to enjoy taking the wheels off and shining up where I normally can't get to to shine. Kinda like Nascar. I'd love to go to a race but the tickets and parking and fees and hotel markups in the area, not haooening. When IU watch it free on tv, the stands have a lot of empty seats.

 

[hogcowboy]

So we all know about HD’s slipping sales the last few years. After pricing out their core demographic for so long, and not taking the competition seriously until it was too late, they don’t have much time left to turn around the slump . Do you think they’ll be able to do it? Or are they just too far behind the curve?

Interesting introduction. I do hope you've come here for more than HD bashing.
WELCOME ON BOARD, and...

We are friendly site here. Well, most of us?

 

[Zach]

HD has been in the game far longer than most other manufacturers (yes I’m including Indian in that because they have been brought back multiple times. They were pretty much the sole survivor of the Great Depression. Granted pretty much anyone involved in that survival then is now only able to pass that information through the history books these new models might be exactly what they need. I don’t see HD going away without putting up a good fight. The problem they face is their own marketing in the 60s and 70s. That and a generation (one of which I’m part off I’ll add) that has a tendency to reject anything that represents the prosperity of those that came before. I think the company will shrink but I don’t think it will ever be gone

 

[GatorJoe]

I see Harley surviving as a successful, but much smaller, player. To continue to hold the massive market share they had and continue to have, is nearly impossible. It was an impressive run, one I'm sure econ professors will use in college courses, but I think it's time HD took it's seat with the rest of the players. That is, of course, unless they pull some sort of magic "must have" out if their hat.

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I agree on the Smaller share of the market .. They are wasting money in some areas trying to expand in areas where they don't really have a chance to compete .. While many call the Harley antique are still some older guys like me that like the simplicity of a Carb and no fancy navigation **** .. For $7,000 Cost, My 05 Dyna does all I need with a Motorcycle .. Updated Cam Tensioners with Higher Flow Oil Pump a Modified Cam for better Mid Range Torque and enough Power to Cruise at 85 MPH all day and even hit 100 MPH if needed .. Also no worries what so ever of finding needed parts either OEM or After Market ..

 

[Motogrady]

I just saw their president and head ceo up and quit.
No warning, no sticking around with just a seat on the board. Nothing.
This was the guy who’s idea was to go electric.
Apparently they put a VP in there temporarily. The guy, I forget his name, did real good turning a sneaker company around before he came to HD.
Who the new boss is gonna be, they don’t know.

 

[dcstrng]

While many call the Harley antique are still some older guys like me that like the simplicity of a Carb and no fancy navigation ****

I labeled it as an “antique” (so am I), but didn’t mean that as a derogatory – unless you only live in a touch-screen, virtual world, then… hmmmm… And Harleys are durable, sturdy and given half a chance, nearly indestructible. I used to commute on my Evo big-twin; some of the electro gizmos were modern and frustrating, so I just eliminated them – not the least was the oil-pressure sensing system – eventually ripped it off and put a mechanical analogue gauge directly on the pressure-port, which always worked…

I say that to illustrate – in summer riding, I often was stuck in stop and go for an hour – eventually there would be no oil-pressure at idle; I never worried as long as if I bumped the idle to about 1500RPM the analogue gauge would bump… beauty of that roller-bearing bottom-end is that it was never fazed… Once I got stuck I a long-two-hour back-up at speeds where OI couldn’t stop, but couldn’t keep the clutch engaged for long either… was about 100-dehgrees and hotter sitting on the rascal – eventually I notice that the alternator was apparently roasting as my voltage dropped below 11-volts and it was taking around 2500RPM (yes 2500) to bump the oil gauge – it was blistering hot, and even with M1-synth, the roasting oil smell was all over – when I final got beyond it (301 bridge), I rolled on the throttle very gently as almost any load produced audible pinging the rest oif the way home…

I knew I’d roasted the M1 oil, and was afraid I’d killed the engine as well… the next day I rode the Nomad to work and then changed the Harley oil on the weekend… bottom, line – the ol’ Evo fired right up, charged just fine and seemed no worse for wear – love that outdated, antiquated design that will run just fine when horribly abused… as I’ve said, I don’t know about the later Twinkies, but the Evo big-twins are super, and when they do wear a part, there are tons of suppliers…

I thoroughly enjoy my C14 Connie, but I have no illusions about which bike will take the most abuse…

 

[vistavette]

I labeled it as an “antique” (so am I), but didn’t mean that as a derogatory – unless you only live in a touch-screen, virtual world, then… hmmmm… And Harleys are durable, sturdy and given half a chance, nearly indestructible. I used to commute on my Evo big-twin; some of the electro gizmos were modern and frustrating, so I just eliminated them – not the least was the oil-pressure sensing system – eventually ripped it off and put a mechanical analogue gauge directly on the pressure-port, which always worked…

I say that to illustrate – in summer riding, I often was stuck in stop and go for an hour – eventually there would be no oil-pressure at idle; I never worried as long as if I bumped the idle to about 1500RPM the analogue gauge would bump… beauty of that roller-bearing bottom-end is that it was never fazed… Once I got stuck I a long-two-hour back-up at speeds where OI couldn’t stop, but couldn’t keep the clutch engaged for long either… was about 100-dehgrees and hotter sitting on the rascal – eventually I notice that the alternator was apparently roasting as my voltage dropped below 11-volts and it was taking around 2500RPM (yes 2500) to bump the oil gauge – it was blistering hot, and even with M1-synth, the roasting oil smell was all over – when I final got beyond it (301 bridge), I rolled on the throttle very gently as almost any load produced audible pinging the rest oif the way home…

I knew I’d roasted the M1 oil, and was afraid I’d killed the engine as well… the next day I rode the Nomad to work and then changed the Harley oil on the weekend… bottom, line – the ol’ Evo fired right up, charged just fine and seemed no worse for wear – love that outdated, antiquated design that will run just fine when horribly abused… as I’ve said, I don’t know about the later Twinkies, but the Evo big-twins are super, and when they do wear a part, there are tons of suppliers…

I thoroughly enjoy my C14 Connie, but I have no illusions about which bike will take the most abuse…

I put 90k on a 2009 Ulltra (Twin Cam 96) riding in 100+ temps all the time, sometimes stuck in traffic for long periods. Never a hiccup.

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[Porky]

I test rode 2, new 2020 Harley Davidson's yesterday, an Electra Glide std and a Street Glide and for a dated, antique design, I found they rode superbly with fantastic ergonomics and plush comfort, shifted well, other than the 'from idle to 1st gear clunk' we all know about and the ABS AND linked brakes were very excellent.

I hadn't ridden a new Electra Glide since 1997, when I sold mine to buy a new Goldwing, so I had read of the many improvements to the line but didn't know what to expect but I was really surprised!

I can go on and will in the HD section of the forum, when I get the opportunity, Probably today.

These ain't your grandpa's Harley---believe me

Sam

 

[hogcowboy]

These ain't your grandpa's Harley---believe me

No they are not. But neither are any of the brands today. They are all great machines.

 

[johnnyvee]

Harley's declining domestic sales in 2019 of about 5.2%, only reflect the general overall market trend of declining US sales. US Motorcycles sales for all marques declined by about 3.1% in the US in 2019. This has been a steady decline since 2007 when a peak volume of around 1 million units were sold. In 2019, less than half that, at around 472,000 units total. Harley's piece of the pie was about 126,000 units.

Harley sales also declined globally, but by a smaller percentage. International Harley sales declined 3%, to around 92,300 units. Harley has the biggest chunk of the USA domestic market, and sells substantial numbers of machines internationally. They are not out of the game by any means.

It's interesting to compare the US market to the world largest motorcycle marketplace; India. Although the India motorcycle market grew in 2019, the player that occupies the premium priced segment in that market, Royal Enfield, saw a substantial decline in sales volume. Even at that, they still made a lot more bikes than Harley does.


USA 2013 | total units 465,800 | Harley Davidson 167,000

India 2013 | total units 14,300,000 | Royal Enfield 178,100

USA 2019 | total units 472,000 | Harley Davidson 126,000

India 2019 | total units 21,180,000 | Royal Enfield 690,840

 

[Unkle Krusty]

The British manufacturers set a good example of not what to do. Stay away from that program and be adaptive.
Back in 1982 many industries had a 50 to 75% drop in sales. What we have now hardly compares to the tough business climate back then.
There has been a huge change in attitude to life's daily drama. Now some can get upset if they do not receive enough " likes "

UK

 

[aaront]

I don’t know if Harley can turn it around, I look at there line up and to me it’s hard to get excited. It’s the same heavy cruisers I’ve been looking at for 25 years. I understand there a classic brand and the heritage thing, but come on, and this new line up with a $35,000 electric bike,give me a break. A bland street fighter and an adventure bike that looks like it weighs a ton, what are they thinking. I just don’t think there’s much appeal there, how about something that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg and is a little exciting. Anyone remember Buell, to me that was the most innovative and exciting line up that Harley had.
Rant over.

 

[highplainsthumper]

In some ways I think HD Corp shot themselves in the foot when they marketed their then new Street 500 and 750 with only a 3.5 gallon fuel tank. I was strongly thinking of a second bike but that turned me off. Earlier on I had a 1987 Suzuki Savage with a 2.8 gallon tank. I was having to refuel every 100 miles or less. If they gave the Streets a 4.5 gallon tank would have made them good competition for the Japanese bikes as a favorable alternative. I don't like sweating where my next fuel stop is especially in these rural parts where I live. Some of these villages only have 1 gas station, and if the delivery truck is late the station could be closed.

Overall though, seems because of the tougher economic climate where good jobs are hard to come by and people still looking for work (the gov. statistics don't take into account those who have been out of work for a long time), people have less disposable income. Thus, getting a new bike is definitely out of the question for many.

Gone are the days when Ronald Reagan reinfused the country with his economic policies that the other presidents after him benefited from. I remember getting 7 or 8 job offers from companies after I graduated from college in the early 1980s. Those days are gone.

 

[Ledballs]

One thing I want to point out: Many people who don't know anything about HD really do believe that they're actually selling antiques. The only thing that is antique about Harley is the styling, which is what attracts me to the product, similar to Triumph and their "Modern Classic" line. They look old, but they're not. Harley's (and Triumphs) are as up to date as anything else. Just because they use a V-Twin doesn't make them antiquated. Its just like my Corvette C7, it's pushrod V8 isn't the same as the 1955 small block. Heritage, yes. Same? No.

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One other thing that is antique is the drive. The fact that you have to split the primary to replace the final belt is pretty stupid. While the Victory V92C wasn't a beautiful machine the first thing I noticed was the simplicity of the final belt on the other side of the bike and could be replaced in a matter of minutes along the road with a few hand wrenches.

 

[dcstrng]

One other thing that is antique is the drive. The fact that you have to split the primary to replace the final belt is pretty stupid.

Yep, this was one of the bugaboos they tried to quiet -- I had two belts nearly go in 100K miles on mine -- I did get home both times... great bike otherwise (mine was an Evo, and she was fine otherwise), but had I kept it, I'd have got to chain drive -- I lived on a gravel road, and a apparently the gravel would get caught in the teeth -- and this isn't a roadside repair, but that was technology left over from before WWII -- to Harley's credit, they pretty much popularized the belt drive in an era when other bikes were being rebuilt after 20K -- so it wasn't a factor back then...

 

[hogcowboy]

Even if you didn't get holes poked in your belt, just the grit from riding on gravel roads really wears a belt down. I had to have the first one changed on my Indian a 30K. It's like sandpaper wearing on these belts.