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I'm surprised a dealer let a bike go without collecting taxes on the sale. That can be a big issue for them if it were to be discovered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I'm surprised a dealer let a bike go without collecting taxes on the sale. That can be a big issue for them if it were to be discovered.
I have a copy of the bill of sale showing that sales tax was paid. As far as I know, the dealer has good references and I don't think they or the original buyer are trying to circumvent the law. Maybe there are more details that myself I'm missing but if the dealer letting the original buyer get out the door with the bike without registering is wrong, then the dealer is going wrong then.
 

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OP is clearly naive. The dealer will always collect the tax for the sale, he just doesn't report it to the state making it extra profit. 1st buyer likely paid it to him but stupidly not the registration fees because of goofy thinking and now cannot because the dealer is stopping him because dealer will be found out. Taxes and registration are two different things. Dealer may be able to curve some slight things like when sold but still has to pay the tax so wants OP to do it if OP is silly enough to do it.

OP needs to understand that at the least he will pay too much and very likely committing a crime (or covering up one which again is another) doing it.

Again, a bill of sale is garbage, title to a vehicle is proof of ownership in court and why pretty much all states do it. Possession of a clear one shows all fees have been paid, a bill does not and will not hold up in court except in some lesser things. You can write a bill of sale on a napkin if wanted and watch Judge Judy shred it in 2 seconds and then demand the title. No title is proof the bill is fake, if the taxes were really paid where is it? Title also has nothing to do with registration which is the next logical step and why they are done usually together but they are NOT the same thing. Title is proof of ownership and all taxes paid. Registration is the extra fees paid to register the vehicle with a plate and to update the state as to who has that plate. You can't register without a title to vehicle to establish owner first.

OP needs to walk away, there being other better deals. Dealer started it and now trying to get in the way as much as possible to stop it as he knows he will be in trouble if somebody pushes it further.

There is no law that says a person has to title but you pretty much have to give up driving vehicle on the street not doing it. One could take 1st owner and the bill of sale to vehicle registration and ask them how to get a title but the first thing they will do is run all records and if the taxes were never paid by the dealer on that bike they will be on to him. If not and the taxes were paid they will likely give some path as to how the 1st owner can apply for title and there are fees there.
 

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'I have a copy of the bill of sale showing that sales tax was paid.'

The state will not recognize that, a bill can say taxes were paid but there is no proof the state ever got their part. A title is proof that the state accepts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
We may end up doing exactly that, going to dvm and get things sort out. I believe a lot of things here were assumed wrongly. I can't speak about the dealer but the original buyer and 2nd (possibly me) are not trying to do anything illegal. The original question was not about "how to make something the illegal way", the question was more about: is there a need or is this the smartest thing to do (financially)? If bypassing "title transfer" it's illegal then thanks for the info. I didn't know and that's why people ask things in forums. If it sounded like I was trying to get advise on how to do something illegal then I'm sorry that you understood that way.
 

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We understand just fine thank you, you are the one with the understanding problem. I for one have done a hundred title transfers if not more. Crooks will always say others misunderstand and how they get off the hook, Not that OP is one, thinking not but not thinking in his best interests either. Title issue problems are often among the hardest to get back right.

Just so we are clear. One can't make claims the original issue was not about illegality as at that time the one didn't even have a clue as to it. As well, for somebody who is so law abiding OP certainly went to wanting to possibly stiff the state pretty quick. And only OP made the statement about trying to break the law, nobody said that, only pointed out it would be likely doing it. Pointing out of fact does not make an accusation of fact. OP leaned far away from correct also with the 'not focus on wrong trigger' thing which is a possible fraud deflection move. A bike that has no miles and brand new screams it's stolen. Even more with no title, Trying to skip out on at least part of the taxes does not make misunderstanding except for the person doing it, OP now has several points blowing the said 'misunderstanding' out of the water.

Like I said, naive. Go to the DMV and keep your nose clean. I've walked on a lot of problem deals like that, they have never worked out to be worth it when I saw others try it.

Good luck.........
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
OP is clearly naive. The dealer will always collect the tax for the sale, he just doesn't report it to the state making it extra profit. 1st buyer likely paid it to him but stupidly not the registration fees because of goofy thinking and now cannot because the dealer is stopping him because dealer will be found out. Taxes and registration are two different things. Dealer may be able to curve some slight things like when sold but still has to pay the tax so wants OP to do it if OP is silly enough to do it.

OP needs to understand that at the least he will pay too much and very likely committing a crime (or covering up one which again is another) doing it.

Again, a bill of sale is garbage, title to a vehicle is proof of ownership in court and why pretty much all states do it. Possession of a clear one shows all fees have been paid, a bill does not and will not hold up in court except in some lesser things. You can write a bill of sale on a napkin if wanted and watch Judge Judy shred it in 2 seconds and then demand the title. No title is proof the bill is fake, if the taxes were really paid where is it? Title also has nothing to do with registration which is the next logical step and why they are done usually together but they are NOT the same thing. Title is proof of ownership and all taxes paid. Registration is the extra fees paid to register the vehicle with a plate and to update the state as to who has that plate. You can't register without a title to vehicle to establish owner first.

OP needs to walk away, there being other better deals. Dealer started it and now trying to get in the way as much as possible to stop it as he knows he will be in trouble if somebody pushes it further.

There is no law that says a person has to title but you pretty much have to give up driving vehicle on the street not doing it. One could take 1st owner and the bill of sale to vehicle registration and ask them how to get a title but the first thing they will do is run all records and if the taxes were never paid by the dealer on that bike they will be on to him. If not and the taxes were paid they will likely give some path as to how the 1st owner can apply for title and there are fees there.
you really need to be that dumb to assume that people asking things on a public forum are trying to do ilegal activity. I said in the beginning that the dealer was firm when said that they first need to sort out the tittle with the first owner in order to be possible to transfer to me. we went from that to a "stolen bike?"
 

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I didn't read the whole thread, but the guy has to register it (and pay the sales tax in the process) and then get the title in his name. The title he has now is in the dealers name and the important parts are probably filled out already with the sellers name.

So the guy has to go register it so he can obtain a title in his name. Otherwise you're buying a no title/lost title type bike.
 

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I also live in NC; I don’t think this situation has been explained well. I think that the dealer has probably done everything proper. I think what most people here do not understand is the licensing procedure in North Carolina. When you buy something, you’re given a temporary registration and you have 90 days to pay a (personal property) tax bill to the county that you live in in order to get a permanent registration. I think that’s what the first buyer (individual who bought from the dealership) was/is trying to avoid paying.

Somebody up above pointed out that each owner is required to pay taxes. That’s the problem here… The first guy doesn’t want to pay the taxes and that’s the illegal part.

I’m going to give the dealer the benefit of the doubt and say that the dealer crossed Ts and dotted “I”s as he is supposed to. This is all on the private individual that bought from the dealer I think. There is also a law in North Carolina that even if you don’t put it on the road you have to report/title a vehicle and pay the taxes on it.

i’ve been up 18 hours so I just skimmed this. But I keep seeing the term sales tax used in North Carolina does not have a sales tax on vehicles like most other states do( “Highway use” tax - is that term only in our state?). It’s been forever since I bought a vehicle from a dealership but I remember being pleasantly surprised a few times that I did. The last one I did years ago was a maximum of like $300…

Maybe the original poster can clarify this. But I’d be willing to bet a cold drink that it’s (personal) property tax problem not a sales tax problem.
 

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In Texas we use the term sales tax loosely as there are so many types. A title registration is same as personal property tax yet we call it sales tax. Then we have the separate registration to get license tags. In fact all sales taxes are taxes on what becomes personal property, what the US Supreme Court has ruled. It's why Walmart cannot go through your shopping cart when you go out the door. I have contested it to make them provide badged police officers instead of company asset loss people.

I get it now, the NC dealers got relieved of some of the state requirements and I wonder how much trouble that causes there. Here the dealers MUST do that work to be dealers.

Thank you for that.

OP has no choice but going to the DMV and if the first buyer is smart he will NOT be wanting to go.
 

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Who gets the sales tax?

When I buy a car or motorcycle in another state (Ive done this often), the dealer does NOT collect sales tax. Sales tax is collected by the DMV in the state in which the vehicle is being registered.

You pay the dealer for the vehicle, then you have to travel back to your state with all the paperwork and go to the DMV and pay the sales tax and register the vehicle. However, the dealer is not allowed to release the vehicle until you come back with proof its registered.

Now, dealers do collect tax and register bikes in house, but only if you are from that dealers state.

Sounds like maybe this dealer released the motorcycle when he wasn't supposed to.
 

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It apparantly differs from state to state. I live in Cali but live close to Reno Nv. We generally buy from Reno dealers. They are required to collect Cali sales tax which they forward to Cali. They can also do the registration and property tax if they choose to do so.
kk
 

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Thank you for jogging my memory about unlicensed year fees, we have them here too. You pay a fee for every year the vehicle never got driven on the highway due to not being licensed to do so. That one can bite big. It's to force you to register every year to keep vehicle current in the computers, they are dumping millions of vehicles to clear space in the computers and if you get dumped it is a pain for them to find your vehicle and delays just over that now when they tell you it cannot be found. Another stunt is that they are also dumping records of titles past a certain age too, when you force them to look them up now they are getting back by claiming all liens have to again be released. Try that one on for size, it blows. Momma (wife) misplaced a stack of my bike titles and to get them again I was having to look up businesses that had disappeared 25 years ago. What a crock! They tell you you never got them released to begin with but I had done it on every single one to have clear titles of all liens. When I pointed out the current state statute that clearly said the financier was responsible for getting lien released titles taken care of they called the resident in-house DPS trooper over and told him I was 'giving them trouble', and end of discussion. They are -sses and insult you right to your face by suggesting you never paid the vehicle off, I pay off years ahead of time.
 

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I've bought a couple vehicles thinking I could get the title issues fixed, because, you know, it takes a fool twice. Neither one was ever driven on the highways, legally. One I chopped to pieces and made a "stripdown" out of it cause we used to do that back then. (Then drive them on all the dirt roads around here, doing donuts, spinning and sliding them around just for fun.)

The other one I sold to a guy that gutted it and made a dirt track stock car out of it because it had a good body on it. I doubt it lasted too many seasons on those quarter mile tracks they used to have around here.
 

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Every time a vehicle is sold, sales tax and state property tax are due.

The bike has already been sold to the current owner, he would have already paid the sales tax because the dealer would have collected it at the time of sale.

But the current owner still owes the state property tax on the transaction, whether it was used on the road or not.

The current owner is just trying to weasel out of paying the property tax he owes the state, and he owes it for every year he has owned the motorcycle.

Now he wants to sell it to you, and if he does, you will be responsible to pay sales tax and property tax also.

There is no getting around this, you both will owe the state the property tax.

Avoid sellers that try to make a simple transaction complicated.
 

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Who gets the sales tax?
When I buy a car or motorcycle in another state (Ive done this often), the dealer does NOT collect sales tax. Sales tax is collected by the DMV in the state in which the vehicle is being registered.
Just because it is done that way in your state does not mean it is the same for all states...

I live in South Carolina (just north of Savannah Ga.).

I bought a new motorcycle two years ago, and a travel trailer just this past week, both were purchased in Georgia.

Both dealers collected SC state sales tax.

Then I had to go to my county court house and pay the property tax, before I could register the vehicles.
 
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