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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I'm planning to buy a bike from a private seller and the bike is 3 month old and has only 2 mile on the odometer.
Long story short, he bought the bike with the intention of riding it off-road only so he never bother to register the bike most likely to avoid state taxes.
The bike was paid in full as I confirmed with the bill of sale. He is selling the bike because he pulled the "wrong" trigger on this one however I'm not looking to focus to much on that here.

The challenge that me and the seller are having is this one:

The dealer still holds the MCO (manufacturers certificate of origin) as the paper work was never send to the DMV.

The dealer is pretty much telling us (me and the seller), that the original buyer needs to register the bike first in order for me to get a tittle.
As far as I know, that most likely means that he will pay state tax to register the bike and then when it's time to transfer the tittle I will pay state taxes as well.

We are trying to avoid this situation but the dealer seems to be firm about their position. I'm not sure why the dealer can't somehow pass the paper work to my name (MCO/warranty/original bill of sale, new bill or sale or whatever needs to be) as long as we show proof that I paid the bike to the original buyer (eg. new bill of sale).

Any suggestions on this?

Much appreciated.
Thanks.
 

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The dealership I presume sells new bikes. They are a representative of the brand and are considered a franchisee. Regardless it's against the law to do that and it's not worth jeopardizing their business just because you want to save taxes. Paying taxes once is avoiding state taxes in this scenario, that should be obvious because that's what your trying to do...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The dealership I presume sells new bikes. They are a representative of the brand and are considered a franchisee. Regardless it's against the law to do that and it's not worth jeopardizing their business just because you want to save taxes. Paying taxes once is avoiding state taxes in this scenario, that should be obvious because that's what your trying to do...
Maybe I didn't explain myself properly, I'm not trying to avoid paying taxes. What we are trying to avoid is to pay taxes twice and save the hassle of getting a title to then transfer the title. If the dealer could make me the original buyer of the bike somehow, I will register the bike and pay the taxes myself.
 

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New motorcycles up here come with a thing called an NVIS (New Vehicle Information Statement)
That costs you nothing until you plate the vehicle and now you pay the sales tax. If you resell the vehicle the buyer gets to pay the sales tax again when they change ownership and purchase new plates.

... can't be too much different where you live, except you likely don't pay a 13% sales tax on absolutely all goods and services.
 

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Maybe I didn't explain myself properly, I'm not trying to avoid paying taxes. What we are trying to avoid is to pay taxes twice and save the hassle of getting a title to then transfer the title. If the dealer could make me the original buyer of the bike somehow, I will register the bike and pay the taxes myself.
Why won't the dealer do that I wonder? And if your paying the taxes anyway, why do you even care?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I edited to add above that if your paying the taxes anyway, why do you care?
Well, me and the seller we are trying working out this together, yeah I "don't care" but at the same time he would save on taxes because he is selling the bike. Why we are giving extra money to the state when it's not needed/required? I mean, at the end of the day we all pay a bunch of state taxes already.
 

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It's more than likely an auditing dilemma. They've obviously registered the bike as a sale through their paperwork and to the manufacturer as well to minimize their floor finance charges....it's just more complicated than it looks. This is just a quess.
 

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The government wants a paper trail, they want to be able to see who owned the vehicle throughout its entire existence and make sure the taxes were collected throughout. They don't like it if you can skip steps, that opens the entire process to legitimizing theft.

Previous owner should have registered the vehicle as unfit. That would have provided them with an ownership that could be transferred to yourself. At least that's how it works in the great white north.
 

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Well, me and the seller we are trying working out this together, yeah I "don't care" but at the same time he would save on taxes because he is selling the bike. Why we are giving extra money to the state when it's not needed/required? I mean, at the end of the day we all pay a bunch of state taxes already.
Yeah, I get it. Who likes paying taxes, especially for something that's had the taxes paid already.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The government wants a paper trail, they want to be able to see who owned the vehicle throughout its entire existence and make sure the taxes were collected throughout. They don't like it if you can skip steps, that opens the entire process to legitimizing theft.

Previous owner should have registered the vehicle as unfit. That would have provided them with an ownership that could be transferred to yourself. At least that's how it works in the great white north.
What seems that could be logic to me it may not correspond to the reality, so I agree that there may be more to it in terms of following the tax/selling laws and policies that I'm not aware. Like I said, I just don't know how other dealers would react to such "request". But in the end, if we need to register the bike, pay taxes so he can then transfer the tittle to me (and then I pay taxes again) so be it. Nothing we can do then... Thanks all!
 

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What state or country is this?

Here in Texas you buy a vehicle and dealer pays tax on it while he had it at sale and then you do when you buy it. That would be the other owner of course, then 3rd tax gets paid by you because you bought it as 3rd owner. EVERY POSSESSOR of property must be taxed or law has been broken. There is NO need to license or register for highway use and all you need is title alone but you must pay fees for that of course. It is highly illegal to not pay taxes by one of the owners by acting like he never existed, that is how one launders stolen cars.

Dealer never paid taxes on bike and acting like he still has it and your messing with that creates problems for him as in why was it not reported as sold earlier because both the original buyer and the second one are now present, it is proof of somebody not following the law. Original buyer likely did not pay taxes either as he would have gotten a title issued when bike was paid for if he had. A bill of sale does not work there as a legal document for a vehicle as thieves can come up with those in seconds.

OP should just forget about it as it has the potential to get quite a bit worse. OP has no way to get dealer to work with him, the problem is legally between the first owner and dealer and likely both looking to not pay taxes owed and second owner (OP) should not be paying anything beyond what is owed for a single title change and the whole thing is independent of licensing anything to drive on the street. OP cannot get a title change legally until first owner clears up what is HIS problem. With no title the first buyer cannot sell bike as it cvould easily be stolen with no paper trail, the entire system looks for that paper trail and not finding it triggers all kinds of things. Things that can be bad.

Walk away unless you like trouble. Walk away fast. On a second reading the bike is technically if not really stolen and the more you inject yourself into it the more you become involved in illegal acts. You MUST understand that bypassing taxes for anybody IS breaking the law. It's fraud.
 

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A story on local news today about similar behavior, vehicle dealers who are now issuing repeat paper temporary license tags in excess of the numbers of vehicles sold. Only supposed to use one and title sent for while the tag lets vehicle get driven immediately. Dealers then do not pay taxes for vehicles sold and just keep issuing the paper tags over and over to the ignorant who keep demanding them when they expire. If the state begins to get interested the dealer then pulls up stakes and relocates to start over again. It seems to be a Nigerian criminal thing, several guys who issued many thousands more dealer tags than the vehicles they sold accounted for. State now alerted to it and some people will be going to jail over it. One guy here local the troopers were looking for and ten business names chased to be phony, he'd best be back in Nigeria by the time they figure out who he really is.
 

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It's called title skipping and is illegal. It's the same as you buying a used car, getting the original owner to sign and not date the title, then you just hold it till you sell it. When you buy any other vehicle the same thing happens. Each sale gets taxes collected. It's just usually not a couple of moths apart. Looks like your choices are to pay up or pass on this deal. If you pass and don't pay, the next buyer will have to pay instead.
 

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Hello,

I'm planning to buy a bike from a private seller and the bike is 3 month old and has only 2 mile on the odometer.
Long story short, he bought the bike with the intention of riding it off-road only so he never bother to register the bike most likely to avoid state taxes.
The bike was paid in full as I confirmed with the bill of sale. He is selling the bike because he pulled the "wrong" trigger on this one however I'm not looking to focus to much on that here.
*
Any suggestions on this?

Much appreciated.
Thanks.
What state are you working with to get this licensed?
 
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