[hagerb3]

The BMW R 1250 GS indeed offers more power with its larger engine. If you value a higher level of performance and acceleration, the BMW may be more appealing. Additionally, for those interested in exploring innovative financial opportunities, you can learn how to turn Bitcoin into USD

 

[Steadfastly]

I wish @wanaride would come back and let us know what he ended up getting!

This happens so often on many forums. I belong to a guitar forum and the same thing happens all the time.

We should have a disclaimer that says we only provide help if we get a reply on their decision.

 

[Joel_The_Mole]

Man the BMW bikes as a DIY cheapskate always sketch me out. I know people who own BMW bikes say they are reliable, but every time I hear what they actually call "reliable" I think: you spend several grand a year at a BMW dealer while under warranty, that is NOT what I consider reliable....

My 2014 Valkyrie 3rd gear just bit it at 43k, to be fair it has been sketchy since I got it at 36k, so I assume the PO did something terrible to it. HEAVILY considering non "cruiser" bikes now and I am looking at the FJR1300/Africa Twin/BMW 1200/1250 GS/GSA. Spec wise the 12000/1250 GS/GSA looks fantastic, but frick that BMW logo worries me. I am 43 so my personal bias is the Japanese are better at just about everything when it comes to cost to performance, but logically I know that bias is based on how they peaked early on in my adulthood and other companies/countries have certainly done a lot of catching up since then.

Hard choices for me, although I am sure others who buy all new vehicles and live under warranty barely understand my dilemma.

 

[johnny42]

BMW = Bring More Wallet

 

[Porky]

BMW= Beautiful Motorcycle Women.

 

[Steadfastly]

Ask Google what the expected mileage is on a model or models your are thinking about. That will give you an idea of how reliable they are.

Also, look at the for sale ads for those models and see how high the mileage is. That is also a good barometer on how long those models will last.

 

[Joel_The_Mole]

Ask Google what the expected mileage is on a model or models your are thinking about. That will give you an idea of how reliable they are.

Also, look at the for sale ads for those models and see how high the mileage is. That is also a good barometer on how long those models will last.

I have no doubt a lot of European bikes can last a very long time these days when serviced as they should be, but the question is how is the DIY serviceability? This might just be my outdated perception, but I feel that a lot of European manufacturers, especially higher end ones, design things for performance first with almost no consideration for servicing or repair, then that has to just be worked out later. Whereas I feel most Japanese companies have a more balanced performance to maintenance outlook through the design process. Plus when you start getting into higher end bikes, especially European ones it seems, the answer to "how do you fix this problem" is just "take it to the dealership and hand them a stack of cash", whereas a similar problem on other bike brands will have detailed steps and processes from the hundreds of people who have resolved the issue on their own bikes.

From what I have seen and read it seems like having any of the big name Japanese bikes when not under a warranty is usually just fine, but it seems like even huge proponents of things like BMW and Ducati mostly shy away from the idea of owning one of these bikes that is no longer covered.

Take your 25+ year old bike for example: there is literally Goldwings of every generation on the road today, you can find detailed solutions to any problem you might have with any one of them online, posts of parts cross compatibility and adaptation for things that are no longer easy to get, if you wanted to I have no doubt you could keep your quarter century old bike running well for several more decades. Compare that to companies like BMW and Ducati, sure there are a handful of antique collector bikes that might be ridden very occasionally for a special event, but how many say... 12-25 year old BMWs or Ducatis on the road that are ridden daily or at least weekly? My guess is not many compared to the number of Japanese bikes of the same age range. Again though, this may very well be my own bias and inaccurate perception.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Yup what Joel said. I still have my VFR since new in '86. Just ticked over 100k-miles and keeps on going. Gets flogged on track ~20 day/yr with no complaints. Done all maintenance myself. Only major issues has been corroding wiring connectors due to Honda using cheap bare-brass terminals that corrode over time. I replaced them with tin-coated ones over the years.

I had both of these bikes at same time while back. Well, had BMW 1st and got sick of it being in shop all the time. So picked up an Africa Twin for comparison. After a year, got rid of BMW, too much work and cost-of-ownership /year too much.

Electronics is where Japanese bikes really shine with exceptional reliability. On BMW, I had to replace cam/crank sensors, sidestand switch, right & left controls. Even the water pump leaked! If you've ever tried to replace these items on BMW, you'll know what kind of brain-surgeon you need to be just to get job done! On Honda, you can replace these items while sitting on side of road in middle of night if you needed to. Not that they ever fail.

 

[RogerC60]

I know something about BMW motorcycles, but almost nothing about the other European brands. There are still plenty of 15-20 year old BMWs on the road. The oilheads (1994 - 2004 boxer twins) have a large following (almost rabid in Europe, but strong as well in the U.S.). Most BMWs pre-2012 or so are easy to service, and most parts are readily available new from dealers or used from recyclers (Beemer Boneyard and others). Expert advice is deep and readily available from BMW-specific forums (BMW MOA forum, BMWSportTouring, and others). On these older motorcycles the common failures are well-known and easy to address pro-actively, as I have done on my 2003 R1150RT. I would not hesitate to hop on today and ride it from Ohio to California and back.

Maybe @DannoXYZ had one of the bad BMWs, or maybe I ended up with one of the gems. I dunno.

 

[Steadfastly]

I am sure that Joel and Danno are right because I bought a used Goldwing this year and there is no way I could be wrong.

 

[ArthurY]

I am going to lump the BMW R1250 GS/GSA/RT into one as they have a lot of overlapping riding characteristics.

Low speed riding
I don't recall seeing anyone talking about the low speed balance of the BMW GS/GSA/RT.
I do not think any other big bikes can feel this easy to ride slow in urban areas; certainly not the AT due to the weight being higher up. The design of the BMW for balancing the bike is head and shoulder above all the none boxer bikes. It simply is and you need to, at least, test drive it for a few hours to feel it, if you have never ridden a GS/GSA. I encourage you to do it so that your experience is fuller and what you say comes from your experience. I would say my RT is slightly better than the Goldwing in balancing at low speeds. I cannot explain why but I'm telling you my experience ... may be the 800lb weight of the Goldwing vs the 600 lb RT?

Of course, you can say that I did not buy a bike to ride it under 25 MPH and I agree with you but you & I have no choice when you ride pass towns and villages on a long distanced trip or when you are going to hit a traffic jam on a freeway. Surely, you need to park in a parking lot when you want to stop for a meal.

Fueling precision
It's not just the weight being way down low that made it the king of riding slow, it is also the highly precise fueling of the right hand twister. Somehow, BMW favors a larger twist:fueling ratio compared to the AT. By larger twist:fuel ratio, I mean to say that the twister need to be twisted more to get the same fueling compared to the AT. This provided a finer granularity of control for the fueling. Because it provides more control over fueling, the bike felt extremely smooth to control at low speed and there is zero jerkiness when I add fuel.
To explain it further: say I return home from a ride, on the front porch. If I were on my BMW RT, on 1st gear, I can simply apply fuel and move the bike into the garage very safely without issues because of the precise fueling.
I would not do that with my Goldwing or AT because imprecise twister produces a lunging effects. For the Goldwing, I had to switch it over to Walk-Mode and duck-walk into the garage. For the AT, I hand push it in. This behavior is also the same in my previous Honda VFR1200XD.

Sadly, one of the glaring weaknesses of the AT is low speed fueling -- it is quite jerky --- same as my Goldwing.
Apparently, Honda said that they improved on this for the 2024 models. I have not tested them yet so I cannot confirm this.

Comfort
Comfort wise, there is no comparison between an AT and a GS/GSA/RT; the BMW wins hand down.

Badness
The downside of BMW has been discussed many times above but here are my list:

• costs (of the bike, parts, service)
• no service manuals published (corporate BMW decided this a few years ago)
• annoying issues every now and then
• design issues which corporate BMW tries to cover up and adamantly marches on; e.g. shaft encasing for their GS/GSA/RT have 2 large holes on the top with rubber boots. Those boots are not waterproof; thus, allowing dirt and moisture to enter causing corrosion to the shaft. This issue does not exists in shaft drive designs from Honda and Yamaha because their shaft encasing is completely sealed. ha ha ... this design flaw is carried over to the new BMW 1300GS, GSA. We shall see how long before class action law-suits starts. The band-aid which BMW provided is that they have revised their Owner's Manual for the 2024 onwards to reflect additional "maintenance" items the owners need to pay: shaft testing, shaft lube and a $2,000+ shaft replacement. I'm sure we are going to hear a lot of moaning in the next few years. They are covering 2023 and older for free.

Weight Issue
As for the weight and physical size of a GS/GSA to go off-road, I am not sure if any of you are watching the BDR org marketing videos every time they release a new route for BDR. Almost all of the bikes in there are GS/GSA. May be BMW Motorrad is a large sponsor of BDR but their bikes are almost always on the foreground. So, are BMW GS/GSA suitable for off-road ? Depends on who you ask.

Adam Riemann also thought the Rhino was good for off-road, too. But, he is not a regular rider, I have to admit it.

So, at the end of the day, there is no free lunch, so to speak.
It depends what you want, what you are willing to give up in return for something else.
The Africa Twin and the BMW R1250GS/GSA have their goodnesses and their downsides.
You have to choose what you can live with and what you cannot.

 

[Porky]

Resale value on the Africa Twin will be 1/3 of what the GS will be after a few years. I've had a GS and an Africa Twin.

Maintenance items are not easy to get too on the AT but right out in the open on the GS.

They are both PIGS on anything but Fire service roads and Jeep trails.

Sam

 

[RogerC60]

BMW recently announced they will replace drive shafts for free every so many miles (36000?) for all their shaft-drive boxer motorcycles from 2014 (I think) through 2023. It doesn't matter if you are the original owner. No charge for parts or labor.

Apparently they think they have the problem licked starting with the 2024 R1300 models.

 

[ArthurY]

Apparently they think they have the problem licked starting with the 2024 R1300 models.

I think I did explain about this ... in my post #31

• design issues which corporate BMW tries to cover up and adamantly marches on; e.g. shaft encasing for their GS/GSA/RT have 2 large holes on the top with rubber boots. Those boots are not waterproof; thus, allowing dirt and moisture to enter causing corrosion to the shaft. This issue does not exists in shaft drive designs from Honda and Yamaha because their shaft encasing is completely sealed. ha ha ... this design flaw is carried over to the new BMW 1300GS, GSA. We shall see how long before class action law-suits starts. The band-aid which BMW provided is that they have revised their Owner's Manual for the 2024 onwards to reflect additional "maintenance" items the owners need to pay: shaft testing, shaft lube and a $2,000+ shaft replacement. I'm sure we are going to hear a lot of moaning in the next few years. They are covering 2023 and older for free.

In short, the issue remains in 2024 R1300GS, the responsibility just got passed on to the owner because they updated the manual to include these items in the maintenance schedule:

• shaft inspection
• shaft lube
• shaft replacement

So, anyone buying 2024 model onwards (including the R1250) are on their own.

The band-aid that added to the 2022 onwards is a drain hole at the bottom of the shaft encasing to release the moisture when they enter. If that really solved the problem, why all the additional maintenance items, which other manufacturers need not recommend?

 

[Steadfastly]

I think I did explain about this ... in my post #31

• design issues which corporate BMW tries to cover up and adamantly marches on; e.g. shaft encasing for their GS/GSA/RT have 2 large holes on the top with rubber boots. Those boots are not waterproof; thus, allowing dirt and moisture to enter causing corrosion to the shaft. This issue does not exists in shaft drive designs from Honda and Yamaha because their shaft encasing is completely sealed. ha ha ... this design flaw is carried over to the new BMW 1300GS, GSA. We shall see how long before class action law-suits starts. The band-aid which BMW provided is that they have revised their Owner's Manual for the 2024 onwards to reflect additional "maintenance" items the owners need to pay: shaft testing, shaft lube and a $2,000+ shaft replacement. I'm sure we are going to hear a lot of moaning in the next few years. They are covering 2023 and older for free.

In short, the issue remains in 2024 R1300GS, the responsibility just passed on to the owner because they updated the manual to include these items in the maintenance schedule:

• shaft inspection
• shaft lube
• shaft replacement

So, anyone buying 2024 model onwards (including the R1250) are on their own.

The band-aid that added to the 2022 onwards is a drain hole at the bottom of the shaft encasing to release the moisture when they enter. If that really solved the problem, why all the additional maintenance items, which other manufacturers need not recommend?

Because that's how dealers make their money and the mfrs. set them up with those programs. i.e. The 300 point inspection after you've travelled 20,000 miles, of which 295 of those points aren't needed and most likely don't get checked anyway. Non mechanical/non-savvy owners go for this and dealers make 100's of thousands off of this nonsense.

 

[Oz]

Years ago I was talking to an old timer R1200RT rider. A know it all guy came over and told him “those shaft drives don’t last long. How many miles do you have on it?” The old timer told him 186,000 miles. 😊

My BMW K-bike had 40,000 miles with no shaft issues. Shaft easily handled 163 hp and 94 ft-lbs of torque with no jacking.

 

[ArthurY]

I think most of the catastrophic shaft issues were reported from GS and GSA where they were used to cross streams and ridden in mud and muddy water without drain holes in the shaft encasing.

I have not seen shaft failures in RT or K1600s … yet.

 

[Steadfastly]

As in everything, there is a lot of "I think" and "they say" with no basis of truth. Those are the two biggest liars on earth. When a statement is made with them, take them with a grain of salt or ask for proof.

In @ArthurY post above he cites articles that clear up some of the previous claims that were made without proof when he states the reports from GS and GSA. That kind of information is believable.

 

[ArthurY]

As in everything, there is a lot of "I think" and "they say" with no basis of truth. Those are the two biggest liars on earth. When a statement is made with them, take them with a grain of salt or ask for proof.

I did not want to say I have the full statistics of all shaft failures because I am not BMW but those were all the shaft failures I have seen reported in relevant forums.
If you are outrightly calling my a liar, then we should stop talking here. There's no need to talk further.
Or perhaps, go out and have a stroll and relax because resuming conversations on forums.

 

[Steadfastly]

I did not want to say I have the full statistics of all shaft failures because I am not BMW but those were all the shaft failures I have seen reported in relevant forums.
If you are outrightly calling my a liar, then we should stop talking here. There's no need to talk further.
Or perhaps, go out and have a stroll and relax because resuming conversations on forums.

Hey Arthur. I am sorry if my post read that way. I was siding with you. After reading your post again, I can see why you may have thought it was aimed at you as you started off saying "I think". I was speaking in general terms where in other posts, it appears that some were led to believe it was a wider problem than it was/is. As you said, it was reported in GS & GSA so you backed up your information. Your post cleared that up. I was reiterating what you said and that we can't believe everything we hear without substantiation. I hope this explains my previous post better and please accept my apology for not making it clearer.

Feel free to correct me in future posts too. I need reminders sometimes to do a little editing before I hit "Post!"