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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #1
You guys may have seen me comment about the insane accompanying rider law in Quebec. I see that many bloggers and writers in Quebec are voicing their opinion on this law and we're all hoping it's finally gone in 2015. I sent a letter to the Minister of transportation Quebec and to the president of the SAAQ (think of it as Quebec's DMV) and published the letters online asking for other Quebec motorbike riders to write letters of their own. I'd appreciate anyone willing to share this on social or on other forums to try and get this in front of as many riders as possible. The article is in both English and French as all political folks in this province are 100% French:

http://www.danrichard.com/2015/01/12/contre-la-loi-de-laccompagnateur-pour-moto-au-quebec-against-the-accompanied-rider-law-in-quebec-take-action/

Thanks for looking!
Dan
 

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V65 Junky
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That is an insane law!

It is incomprehensible to me how these bureaucrats and politicians can actually come up with this shee-ite.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #3
That is an insane law!

It is incomprehensible to me how these bureaucrats and politicians can actually come up with this shee-ite.
What really kills me is the fact that they worked with a motorcycle safety organization to evaluate the new laws they put in place in 2010 (including this stupid law) and the report CLEARLY says they need to get rid of this... it's been 3 years since and it's still law. If I was a good law abiding citizen, it basically means that I wouldn't be able to ride my bike alone until next September.
 

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Dan, I doubt anyone here will turn you in to the authorities but bon chance on your letter writing campaign.
 

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As I understand it, there are states with similar laws. But I think the permit stage is only 30 days. I have read here that some states require you to have a licensed rider on their bike with you on yours if you only have a permit.

I understand their thinking(I did NOT say I agree). They think it will be like me teaching my son, where I give a crap about his welfare and about his riding experience. And of course all riders are available any time the permit rider needs.

Or it could be that their thinking is this will make it much harder for people to get their license and eventually the motorcycle will go away.

Good luck trying to get a change.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Dan, I doubt anyone here will turn you in to the authorities but bon chance on your letter writing campaign.
:71baldboy:

The problem is that the cops here blitz in the spring until mid-june and just pull over anyone on a bike to ensure their paperwork is up to date and paid for. So you have a good chance getting caught in a random paperwork check until mid-way through the season. I drove last year October 10th to December 1st and didn't even get a second glance from a cop.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #7
As I understand it, there are states with similar laws. But I think the permit stage is only 30 days. I have read here that some states require you to have a licensed rider on their bike with you on yours if you only have a permit.

I understand their thinking(I did NOT say I agree). They think it will be like me teaching my son, where I give a crap about his welfare and about his riding experience. And of course all riders are available any time the permit rider needs.

Or it could be that their thinking is this will make it much harder for people to get their license and eventually the motorcycle will go away.

Good luck trying to get a change.
I honestly don't understand their thinking. Wouldn't you want your son keeping an eye on the road in front of him, head on a swivel and visualizing long range instead of trying to watch you for signals and direction? I get that you would certainly be more conscientious of his safety and maintaining a safe, beginner speed, but it's still more dangerous to force him to keep his eyes on you instead of the road around and in front of him.

I remember seeing an article last year that says Quebec has the strictest motorcycle licensing process as of 4 years ago when they reformed many laws, yet it has not reduced rider accidents and fatalities whatsoever.

Dan
 

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Wow geez,, I'm glad such a law didn't leak across the border here to Ontario :( Is Quebec the only province to have this "buddy rider" rule, and did you say the rule has been in place for 3 years now??

I'm a firm believer of "graduated licensing" where a new motorcyclist is restricted to a small engine size for the first year or two. I actually wish they did that here in Ontario.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #9
Wow geez,, I'm glad such a law didn't leak across the border here to Ontario :( Is Quebec the only province to have this "buddy rider" rule, and did you say the rule has been in place for 3 years now??

I'm a firm believer of "graduated licensing" where a new motorcyclist is restricted to a small engine size for the first year or two. I actually wish they did that here in Ontario.
It's been in place since 2010, and I am positive that Quebec is the only place in the world that has this to be honest. Leave it to Quebec to come up with something like that...

I agree with having a probationary period 100%, but the accompanied rider part is ridiculous. I'd be fine with something like an 18 month probationary period where you can't drive between 12AM and 5AM or something, no passenger, zero tolerance on alcohol, limited number of demerit points, CC limit like 1000cc on a non-sports bike then something realistic for sports bikes and maybe a few other items. Those actually make sense and help un-experienced riders develop their skills before they move on to more challenges. I would have zero problems with that. But come on, I went through the entire licensing circus and have been driving a vehicle for 22 years, now I have to find a babysitter every time I want to take my bike on the street? Give me a break.

The worst part is that it's been rumored for a couple of years they would finally get rid of it, but when they do they won't grandfather it to anyone currently on the probationary license. It's just baffling.

Dan
 

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In many states a licensed rider must accompany an unlicensed rider who is riding using a learner permit. The time is seldom an issue and as soon as that permit rider takes and passes his/her riding test the second rider is no longer required. It could be as soon as the day after the permit is obtained if the new rider has some experience in slow speed riding, like parking lots.
In most states the entire learner permit thing is waived if you have completed and passed a training course endorsed by the licensing authority. Typically those courses are only a few days long.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #11
In many states a licensed rider must accompany an unlicensed rider who is riding using a learner permit. The time is seldom an issue and as soon as that permit rider takes and passes his/her riding test the second rider is no longer required. It could be as soon as the day after the permit is obtained if the new rider has some experience in slow speed riding, like parking lots.
In most states the entire learner permit thing is waived if you have completed and passed a training course endorsed by the licensing authority. Typically those courses are only a few days long.
OK so here's how it works here:

1. You MUST register for a mandatory course that costs about $650.
2. Part one of the course is classroom theory, 4 sessions of 4 hours.
3. Once the theory portion is complete, you must pass a theory exam at the SAAQ (our version of the DMV).
4. Once you pass, you are given a learner's permit, which ONLY allows you to ride a motorcycle in an approved course with professional approved instructors on a closed circuit.
5. You complete the second portion of your course, which is the circuit training, again 4 courses of 4 hours.
6. If the instructors grade you a passing mark, you are then given 2 final lessons of 2 hours, where you go out on the streets and highway (highway on day 2).
7. You are awarded a certificate for passing the course, you may now schedule your circuit exam with the SAAQ.
8. If you pass the circuit exam at the SAAQ, you are given what is called the 6A or apprentice license. You must have this license for a minimum of 11 months before you can schedule the full road test. During this minimum 11 months, you have several restrictions including no passenger allowed (that's fine) and you must be accompanied by another driver at all times who has had their full license for at least a year.
9. After 11 months has passed, you can then schedule a road test with the SAAQ.
10. Once you pass the road test, you are fully licensed with no restrictions, except that you cannot be an accompanying driver for someone with a 6A until 1 year has passed.

Dan
 

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In Ohio (USA) you get a permit by taking a test on a computer which is almost all from the car permit test. With a permit you cannot go on freeways, cannot ride at night and cannot have a passenger.

If you take and pass a motorcycle safety course (at least the state sponsored ones) you can then get your license at the BMV (same as DMV) without taking the riding test. When you get your license you must ride with a helmet on for the first year. Personally thirteen years later I still ride with a helmet on.
 

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A beginner doesn't have the avoidance skills, reflexes needed. By following an experienced rider he gains a 2 second advantage. And watching the experienced rider hit the curves will help the beginner to just go with the flow and let the natural handling take over, instead of thinking how to.........

But what is most likely is the experienced rider will say you go in front so I can keep an eye on you, or its easier for me to pace you from behind, or the truth, I wanna a good seat for the crash so you go in front. Thus having the experienced rider around is useless.
 

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In many states a licensed rider must accompany an unlicensed rider who is riding using a learner permit. The time is seldom an issue and as soon as that permit rider takes and passes his/her riding test the second rider is no longer required. It could be as soon as the day after the permit is obtained if the new rider has some experience in slow speed riding, like parking lots.
In most states the entire learner permit thing is waived if you have completed and passed a training course endorsed by the licensing authority. Typically those courses are only a few days long.
Here the course counts as the riding test for your license......however you can take the course before you have your permit, the permit process is not waived, you must take the permit written test and have 30 days with a permit before you can get a license.

you can

get permit, wait 30 days take license test

get permit, take course, 30 days after getting permit you can get license without test

take course, get permit, 30 days after getting permit you can get license without test
 

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Premium Member
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Test

I think the law is similar in BC, but for a shorter time.
If the fuzz do arbitrary checks, I happily comply. But then I may ask, what was the reason for stopping me. Always polite.

Unkle Crusty*
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #17
I think the law is similar in BC, but for a shorter time.
If the fuzz do arbitrary checks, I happily comply. But then I may ask, what was the reason for stopping me. Always polite.

Unkle Crusty*
Oh I don't mind either, except where they see my probationary license and tow my bike and hand me a huge fine because I didn't have my babysitter. lol!
 

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I am positive that Quebec is the only place in the world that has this to be honest.
Nope, Quebec is not alone in this insanity. Queensland, Australia has what appears to be an even tougher motorcycle learner law.

To get your motorcycle learners licence you need to have held a provisional, probationary or full licence in another class of vehicle for at least 12 months

You sit a theory test and are issued with a learners licence and have to display an "L" plate on the bike at all times, you have your learner's licence for 12 months.

You must only ride when accompanied by a rider who has held their full motorcycle licence for at least 12 months during that year.

You may only ride a Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) bike which must not be larger than 660 cc, not 2 stroke, have a maximum power to weight ratio of 150 kW/tonne (200 HP/ton) AND be listed on an official list of LAMS bikes.

Then you sit a Q Test and move on to your provisional "P" licence, you show a "P" plate but can ride on your own.

When I started riding six years ago at the age of 60 in New Zealand I was limited to a 250 cc bike, had to show an "L" plate, would have had to ride on my learners licence for 12 months except I was over 45 and so only had to stay on my L licence for 6 months. I was stopped once and told I should take the "L" plate off the bike, the LEO thought I'd borrowed a learner's bike.
 

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Lead Astronaut
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Discussion Starter #20
Nope, Quebec is not alone in this insanity. Queensland, Australia has what appears to be an even tougher motorcycle learner law.

To get your motorcycle learners licence you need to have held a provisional, probationary or full licence in another class of vehicle for at least 12 months

You sit a theory test and are issued with a learners licence and have to display an "L" plate on the bike at all times, you have your learner's licence for 12 months.

You must only ride when accompanied by a rider who has held their full motorcycle licence for at least 12 months during that year.

You may only ride a Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) bike which must not be larger than 660 cc, not 2 stroke, have a maximum power to weight ratio of 150 kW/tonne (200 HP/ton) AND be listed on an official list of LAMS bikes.

Then you sit a Q Test and move on to your provisional "P" licence, you show a "P" plate but can ride on your own.

When I started riding six years ago at the age of 60 in New Zealand I was limited to a 250 cc bike, had to show an "L" plate, would have had to ride on my learners licence for 12 months except I was over 45 and so only had to stay on my L licence for 6 months. I was stopped once and told I should take the "L" plate off the bike, the LEO thought I'd borrowed a learner's bike.
Sorry to hear you have to deal with similar insanity... it's mind boggling what governments do in order to "protect us".
 
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