[Tobacco Road]

Do any of you guys, who ride 2 wheel motorcycles, think this is a good idea? I may be a tad behind as I am new to the term "autocycle." Not sure how many states have implemented a law such as this but apparently Maine is not the first.

They appear to be saying if it has three wheels, foot controls for throttle and brake and a steering wheel, it is an autocycle. If it has handle bar steering, hand controls for throttle and brake and three wheels, then it is still a motorcycle.

That would seem to leave Harley three wheelers and Honda three wheelers out in the cold, they are by definition still a motorcycle. Something seems to be afoot. As with most things, it would seem the appeal of greater sales trumps having better trained riders on the highways. Which reminds me, are they still considered riders?

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/07/14/maine-among-states-regulating-autocycles/comments/

 

[Miss Mercedes]

We can largely thank Paul Elio for this...

Paul's company (that I'm still not convinced either isn't a scam or isn't so incompetent it shouldn't exist) wants to build three wheel cars that cost $6,800. Problem is that back when the project first started he ran into a roadblock that the car would be classified as a motorcycle, therefore requiring owners to have a motorcycle license and in some states, even wear a helmet. The guy wants to sell 250k of the things a year and those two roadblocks would definitely harm the possibility of hitting that number.

The other problem he then ran into is that he could get the car classified as a car, but then the car would be subject to crash testing and EPA regulations. And while he boasts about the car's supposed "simulated 5 star crash safety rating", I'm betting he knows the car will probably fail a crash test in its current design. Of course, he could beef up the car and install emissions equipment, but then that probably comes at odds with the target $6,800 price tag.

So he started lobbying to Congress, the NHTSA, and the States for a third classification. The Autocycle classification allows a company to build a three wheeled vehicle and not have to worry about the expensive components and safety of a car while also not having to worry about the legal requirements of motorcycles.

Personally? I'm a bit conflicted. Things like the Elio should be classified as a car. After all, it's literally just a car with a wheel missing. But the Slingshot or the Morgan 3 Wheeler? Well those are neither motorcycles nor cars, so what should they be?

 

[Critter]

A lot of states scratched their heads when the when the slingshot came out. I know that here in MD you could not register them when they first came out because the state didn't know how to classify them.

 

[Tobacco Road]

Good post MM. I wouldn't feel conflicted in the least.

 

[Offcenter]

New Jersey classifies it as an Autocycle if it has a steering wheel and seats like a car. If it has handlebars like a Spyder, it's a motorcycle.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

Motorcycles are bicycles with motors. Bi is two. Tri is three. If it has three wheels, it can not be a motorcycle. It can be a tricycle.

However the folks that make the rules, may think differently than me.

UK

 

[Tobacco Road]

Motorcycles are bicycles with motors. Bi is two. Tri is three. If it has three wheels, it can not be a motorcycle. It can be a tricycle.

However the folks that make the rules, may think differently than me.

UK

In the possibility you find a politician to agree with you, I promise to not hold my breath.

 

[FlipFlop]

Follow the money and all things become clearer.

 

[hogcowboy]

New Jersey classifies it as an Autocycle if it has a steering wheel and seats like a car. If it has handlebars like a Spyder, it's a motorcycle.

Then what do they call a Stallion? It has a steering wheel but sits like a motorcycle. Some even have heating and air-conditioning. It is certainly closer to a car than a motorcycle but has been classified as a trike since the very beginning.

Then you have that French car that has 2 wide wheels in front and 2 narrow in the rear. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to change that car to a auto-cycle by removing one wheel, thereby having the ability to skip all the safety requirements of cars.

Yes, it's a confusing bag of worms. It should be motorcycles, trikes or cars. Period. Put your foot down and live with it. The heck with the troll Paul Elio and others like him.

But then I'm also for everyone having to use a motorcycle or trike as their first licensed vehicle too. It is after all a privilege to drive isn't it? Make it a true privilege. That would open the eyes of a lot of folks and we wouldn't just have one month where it's suggested to watch out for motorcycles.

 

[Tobacco Road]

Follow the money and all things become clearer.

The truth of this statement cannot be overemphasized.

 

[vito]

I really don't care what you call the three wheel vehicles, I'm just glad that they are available on the market for those that want them. Clearly there are many more people that want the feeling of a motorcycle, or at least some of the feeling, without having to actually learn to ride a motorcycle. Vehicles like the Can-Am Spyder, the Slingshot and others allow the rider/driver to be open to the elements, unencumbered by the weight (and cost) of required automotive equipment, and yet not require the learning of balancing a heavy, motorized two wheeler (as well as the shifting and use of hand controls and other features of actual motorcycles). They also allow a motorcycle-like experience for those with physical disabilities that would make riding a traditional motorcycle difficult or impossible, as well as the older rider looking for something that they can safely handle despite decreased strength and flexibility.

All of us that ride are accepting the greater risk of injury or death as compared to driving a car or truck. Driving an "autocycle" allows the individual to have a somewhat similar experience by accepting the risks associated with a vehicle similar to a car, or as a trike, without it being subject to the rules that govern legal cars and trucks. Personally, I don't care for these particularly, having had the chance to ride a Spyder, to drive a Slingshot, and to try a traditional motorcycle trike. But I would choose any of these over having to be limited to traditional cars. Even a convertible, while nice, is not the same as being on any of the autocycles. Where the line gets really blurry is something like the Slingshot with a roof, where I would guess it feels even more car-like, or possibly like a really cheap and flimsy car whose rear end can readily break loose and cause you to lose control.

But clearly some of us in the two wheel riding community DO enjoy some of the advantages of cars while still riding a motorcycle. I love my Goldwing, a very real motorcycle, but I also enjoy having the cruise control, audio features, built in GPS navigation, a fairing for some protection from the elements, etc. In some ways, adding a third wheel could theoretically keep it a motorcycle but with the stability of a trike (in other words, no need to balance at slow speeds or stops). Something like the new Yamaha Niken, if the wheels could become upright and rigid when slowing to a walking pace or stopping, might end up being the perfect compromise.

 

[BWB75]

Isn't this an updater version of the British Reliant Robin?

 

[Tobacco Road]

I get where you're coming from Vito, I just don't agree. I would think any riding or driving skills you can acquire, be it on your lawn mower, farm tractor or by being required to have a stamp on your license, would be a positive thing.

It should not be about someone being able to ride and enjoy the wind blowing through their hair as reason for not having to take a test and pass it because the riding experience takes precedent over knowing how to handle the machine. If you want to ride the damn thing you should know how to handle it. I took a test for my CDL class A license, so should these three wheel riders.

 

[Jo6pak]

I can see the point in more "staged" licenses for certain types of bikes, scoots and three wheelers.

MC license for anything over a certain size/power range. (like it's currently set up.)

A "Trike" license. (things with handlebars and an extra wheel- standard trikes, Spyders)

Auto car- for 3 wheelers with steering wheel, foot accelerator (Slingshot, Morgan, Vanderhall, etc)

Frankly, if the Slingshot, Vanderhall, etc are legal, I see no reason cars the KTM Xbow shouldn't be allowed.

 

[450zuki]

Follow the money and all things become clearer.

Nailed it...our government, local to DC, is for sale...pony up the cash and "voters be damned".

Wells Fargo has a pension plan that is MASSIVELY underfunded...so what did they do?

Inject more cash into the fund...LOL>..YEAH!...RIGHT!

Nope!

They lobbied Congress to change the laws on how "funding" of pension funds is calculated...long story short, the fund went from a massive deficit to being "Over-funded" all with the stroke of a pen by the Congress/President...oh, and you'll love this...the new law allowed them to withdraw any over-funding and spend it however they please...crooks, crooks, crooks...

 

[TD-91]

I am also glad three wheelers are on the market. As someone who has taken a one of the first tilting 3-wheelers for a ride, the experience is amazing. We will not be able to avoid the government requirements but I hope we are afforded the opportunity to have fun with more of them.

Also, I saw Helix Motors is making a push via. their website and a kickstarter awareness campaign (you can get a shirt and they get data) to gather interest in their concept. The kickstarter seems like a fun approach to gather interest over and above their web site. The latest design images look like they are heading in great direction.

 

[vito]

To me the key is in the seating and steering controls. Sitting side by side and having a wheel for steering makes it a car in my mind. Sitting one behind the other and having handlebars makes it a motorcycle. I found this old threat interesting. Since my comment in 2019 a lot has changed for me. This past June I traded in my wonderful, but very heavy Goldwing for a CanAm Spyder. Riding the Spyder is much, much closer to a motorcycle experience than it is to a car experience, even when I compare it to my small convertible (a Mini Cooper). Like a regular motorcycle, I sit on rather than in my Spyder. In fact the only aspect of riding that is different is the steering through curves rather than leaning. I miss the leaning a bit, but that is more than compensated by never having to think about tipping over as I come to a stop, even on a cambered and oil soaked road, or having to worry about a paved road suddenly turning to gravel or dirt, or being out with a large group of riders and having to park on grass. I had come to the conclusion that a 920 pound two wheeler was just to heavy for me to still be comfortable, and a tip over in my garage was the final straw. At first I wondered if I would still feel like a motorcyclist, but found that I most definitely do still feel I am a rider. I doubt that with an autocycle like the Slingshot that I would feel like a rider anymore.

 

[TD-91]

To me the key is in the seating and steering controls. Sitting side by side and having a wheel for steering makes it a car in my mind. Sitting one behind the other and having handlebars makes it a motorcycle. I found this old threat interesting. Since my comment in 2019 a lot has changed for me. This past June I traded in my wonderful, but very heavy Goldwing for a CanAm Spyder. Riding the Spyder is much, much closer to a motorcycle experience than it is to a car experience, even when I compare it to my small convertible (a Mini Cooper). Like a regular motorcycle, I sit on rather than in my Spyder. In fact the only aspect of riding that is different is the steering through curves rather than leaning. I miss the leaning a bit, but that is more than compensated by never having to think about tipping over as I come to a stop, even on a cambered and oil soaked road, or having to worry about a paved road suddenly turning to gravel or dirt, or being out with a large group of riders and having to park on grass. I had come to the conclusion that a 920 pound two wheeler was just to heavy for me to still be comfortable, and a tip over in my garage was the final straw. At first I wondered if I would still feel like a motorcyclist, but found that I most definitely do still feel I am a rider. I doubt that with an autocycle like the Slingshot that I would feel like a rider anymore.

If you get a chance watch the old video of Jeremy Clarkson driving the Carver One. This is the closest thing to a motorcycle that I have seen and felt (I had a chance to drive one a while back). I too would not want to manage 920lbs with two wheels. I am still hopeful, to achieve that rider feeling on something more than 2 wheels. Like I said, I am hopeful.

 

[Rollin']

I think it's great that people that can't ride a motorcycle anymore can still drive their little 3-wheel cars.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

At the moment, I get on the ferry as a motorcycle, even when the sidecar is attached. Did it today. Anyone can tell it is a motorcycle. BUT, these three wheel Spyder things take up more room. If they try and claim to be a motorcycle, then the cage drivers will cry foul. They take up about as much room as a cage. They will lose any bike privilege, and I might too.
As far as the ferries are concerned, I think they should be considered a cage, and pay more, and wait in line. I will attend a ferry meeting if the issue becomes a problem. UK