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Hero's are Remembered, Legends Never Die
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In my Free time I teach all types of motorsports at many levels, Dirt, Street, Track etc. I have been involved in Motorsports Education for 20 years and over the years I have noticed it has always been very difficult to get riders to participate or take any type of training once they learn how to ride, and many do not get training to learn how to ride in the first place either.

I know that some groups are more likely to search out rider training programs, advanced training programs and participate in training than others, ie. from my experience BMW riders tend to be represented in advanced riding classes way above the average and disproportionately in relation to the numbers of bikes sold and on the road. In some Classes they can account for almost 1/3 of the riders in advanced classes. (It does vary by region)

So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I like to equate rider training to our formal education, completion of the Basic classes like the MSF BRC is about the same as graduating from the 3rd grade. You did not quite school after the third grade but most riders tend to be of the opinion that the 3rd grade level of rider education is enough. There is so much more out there that can make you a better rider, and in turn might actually even save your life, so what prevents you from wanting to be better? I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossi you can be better, so again whats the deal?

I am looking for the honest opinions of those who have not taken training, maybe you thought about it but just never did? Again why? Advanced training?? There is so much out there what is holding you back?
 
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So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?
Where I live we have to use our own motorcycles for advanced training and I am not comfortable with that idea.
 

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Hero's are Remembered, Legends Never Die
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Discussion Starter #3
Where I live we have to use our own motorcycles for advanced training and I am not comfortable with that idea.
So why would you not want to train on the bike you ride on the street? Riding on the street is much more dangerous that training in a parking lot. Also how are you going to get better at riding your bike if you do not learn the techniques to be a better rider, "Have the tools in your tool box?"

Riding alone is not going to do it, as if you have the wrong techniques or bad habits you will just become better at doing it wrong and not really improve.
 
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Eye, that is exactly what I mean. Also, as much as it costs for the course one would think they would supply motorcycles. It is not the advanced training I am worried about but using my own bike.
 

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Female Rider
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I live south of St. Louis, MO and haven't seen the BRC2 or the ARC offered around here. When I took the BRC in 2012 the coaches said they tried to have the ARC but there was no demand for it.

I like to go to empty parking lots and practice slow maneuvers. But doing those for 4 to 5 hours straight really give the muscle memory to be able to do them with confidence. It is also great to have the coaches correct bad habits.
 
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So why would you not want to train on the bike you ride on the street? Riding on the street is much more dangerous that training in a parking lot. Also how are you going to get better at riding your bike if you do not learn the techniques to be a better rider, "Have the tools in your tool box?"
Learning techniques for motorcycles would be like learning techniques for a car. You can learn techniques on someone else's bike then apply them to your own.
 

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Gone.
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So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider?
It sounds like you are saying that if a rider does not sign up for a paid course he's not interested in becoming a better rider.

That's simply not true. I know many riders that are constantly striving to become better and safer riders, and have been doing so for years. They do this by reading, by watching videos, by talking to other riders, (even on forums such as this one,) and most importantly by going out and practicing old skills and experimenting with new ones. There's more then one path to any goal, and a paid class isn't always the most feasible way to get there.
 

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Female Rider
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That is so true Eye. I paid $215 for the BRC in 2012. Granted that is a small price to pay to learn for safety sake but I know lots of folks that just don't want to put out that much money.

I have friends that said it was a waste of good money because I already knew how to ride. I probably wouldn't have taken the course but due to issues with my back I felt I needed the help getting my skills back to where I knew I could ride again. The course really did help me do that.
 

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Hero's are Remembered, Legends Never Die
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
It sounds like you are saying that if a rider does not sign up for a paid course he's not interested in becoming a better rider.

That's simply not true. I know many riders that are constantly striving to become better and safer riders, and have been doing so for years. They do this by reading, by watching videos, by talking to other riders, (even on forums such as this one,) and most importantly by going out and practicing old skills and experimenting with new ones. There's more then one path to any goal, and a paid class isn't always the most feasible way to get there.
No I am not saying that at all, and I work a full time job for a living as well, I am not doing this for me but for other riders. In some states rider classes are free, so riders do not have to pay for them and they still do not attend.

Also I am not looking for an argument, I am looking to find out more about riders and what they think in regards to rider training and why.
 

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Gone.
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No argument here. I was just answering your question with my own opinion. :)

Courses aren't free here, and other then the basic courses the only one I've seen is over in Tampa. $175 to learn how to make u-turns like a motor cop. It's very impressive to see, but not something I've ever really needed to be able to do.

Ultimately though, I think it's the type of riding that determines how much, and what type, advanced training a person is going to seek out. Those that do a lot of performance riding and see riding as a sport will likely be more interested in more technical track-type training by a professional. Those that see it as a leisure activity, or just plain transportation, might be more inclined to refresher type experiences or to other types of skills building.
 

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I've always considered it ever since I got my bike, which was just a little over a year ago. I needed 10,000 miles to qualify for it though which I now have. I just need to allocate the time and money to do it now and I will at some point. Sounds fun to me.
 

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Pale Rider
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Track day classes are aimed at riding fast, proficiently, learning to hang your buttocks off of the seat. I don't ride like that at all. I ride a touring bike, two up, 99% of the time. Most of the classes are not appropriate to my style of riding -- the skills used for high-speed riding, to take turns faster, with better traction by keeping the weight lower (my buttocks off of the seat), while keeping the bike more upright, are not applicable to my riding.

I have purchased the "Ride Like a Pro" DVD, for slow-speed handling, as this IS applicable to my riding style, on a heavy touring bike. I have used these skills repeatedly, on the street, with my bride on back -- this DVD was worth every penny, and it is a gift that keeps on giving us what we need, in our style of riding.

There have not been any Jerry Pallodino classes in our area, so the DVD is our only option -- no cash to transport ourselves, and our bike, to Florida, or Georgia, for these classes. Also, I don't need the full skill set, just the basics.

I read, and own, several books on advanced techniques. I re-read them during the off-season (will begin in a few weeks, when I moth-ball the bike for the Winter).

The MSF's Advanced Rider Course seems to be a re-hash of the BRC, without introducing any new material; besides, the ARC is only offered a couple of times each year, so I have to make my schedule fit their's -- not always feasible. Cheers!
:coffee:

PS:

The biggest reason: I ride sedately, not aggressively, which is what the classes tend to aim at. I ride leisurely, I do not 'carve corners', I just don't care to ride aggressively. Most classes have nothing to offer my riding style, so they do not offer anything I am interested in.
 

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Some of us old guys that have been riding for many years are probably pretty set in our ways, not saying that is a good excuse but I think it is true.
I could probably gain a lot from an advanced riders course but most likely won't take one. Like has already been said, I don't want to take a chance of damaging my bike.
The other side of the coin is that anything we can learn to become better and safer riders is worth learning.
 

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In my Free time I teach all types of motorsports at many levels, Dirt, Street, Track etc. I have been involved in Motorsports Education for 20 years and over the years I have noticed it has always been very difficult to get riders to participate or take any type of training once they learn how to ride, and many do not get training to learn how to ride in the first place either.

I know that some groups are more likely to search out rider training programs, advanced training programs and participate in training than others, ie. from my experience BMW riders tend to be represented in advanced riding classes way above the average and disproportionately in relation to the numbers of bikes sold and on the road. In some Classes they can account for almost 1/3 of the riders in advanced classes. (It does vary by region)

So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I like to equate rider training to our formal education, completion of the Basic classes like the MSF BRC is about the same as graduating from the 3rd grade. You did not quite school after the third grade but most riders tend to be of the opinion that the 3rd grade level of rider education is enough. There is so much more out there that can make you a better rider, and in turn might actually even save your life, so what prevents you from wanting to be better? I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossi you can be better, so again whats the deal?

I am looking for the honest opinions of those who have not taken training, maybe you thought about it but just never did? Again why? Advanced training?? There is so much out there what is holding you back?
For me the answer is simple. I can find a nearby BRC class almost any weekend of the year. I don't think they hold them in January but there is often too much snow that time of year anyway. On the other hand the more advanced classes where I would get to use my own bike are rarely held and are held only in a very limited number of locations. When I visit the web site to find an advanced class I seldom find one within easy distances that is not already full. When it comes to paying big bucks to a private instructor, I just don't want to pay that kind of price. Heck, I took my first and only BRC after being a rider for over 40 years and at the age of 60. I have had a motorcycle endorsement since California created that classification in the early 70s even though I no longer live there.
 

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I am in the same boat...l would love to learn more, not only safety-wise, but also at the track, but l don't want to scrape up my bike. I think at some point l will get another bike just for those types of days...maybe a 10 year old R6 that has been dropped a few times that l can pick up for $1000 or something like that.
 

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According to the state page here, there's supposed to be BRC2 courses offered at the local schools that offer the BRC, but I called around this summer and couldn't find any. The site also said they offered private lessons for $60 an hour, but I never got that far.
 

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Hero's are Remembered, Legends Never Die
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Discussion Starter #18
All of the advanced training I have taken, Parking Lot, Dirt, and Track has always been a lot of fun, and every single program has made me a better rider and in turn a safer rider, While programs may be advertised as safety programs the real deal is to make you a better rider and to do that you have to learn things, some might be new and different, others might be improving on things you already know. But in the end learning can be fun, and if it is not fun, it is something I also probably would not take.
 

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I am planning on taking the advanced course next spring/summer. I wanted to use my first season of riding to build up on the basics first before moving on to more advanced stuff. But you are right, the more you learn, the better off you will be.
 

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So long
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... I have noticed it has always been very difficult to get riders to participate or take any type of training once they learn how to ride, and many do not get training to learn how to ride in the first place either...
There was no basic riding course in the 1960's. Back then I learned to ride from the same guys that taught me my other bad habits.

...
So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?
...
I took the BRC in 2007 when I retuned to riding after two decades of being too busy doing other things. The following year I took an off road training class. I'm a retired guy so I keep tight reins on my spending. I agree with what Eye said about parking lot courses for motor patrol officers. Interesting stuff but that's not where I want to spend my money.

... I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossi you can be better, so again whats the deal?...
I ride nearly every day year 'round. That all by itself is a continuous learning experience. Next month I'll turn 68 years old. I have confidence in my riding, but Rossi has nothing to worry about from me.

Every few weeks I do a spirited ride with a group of friends, all long time sport bike riders, all military veterans, all close in age and all are good riders. Whether it's just a four hour ride with a lunch stop, or a day trip to the mountains, I've found that riding with a small group of experienced friends is a good way to stay sharp and keep learning.
 
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