ABS & Deer

1237 Views 81 Replies 23 Participants Last post by Steadfastly, 25 m ago

Gary Rider

Discussion Starter · 10 d ago

My friend recently crashed his HD 2017 Road Glide Ultra FLTRU when 2 deer crossed the road in front of him. I'm wondering how much having a big bike with ABS helped him come out almost completely unharmed. Unfortunately, one of the deer was less lucky. Certainly having front and rear crash bars saved him from a lot of road rash. Attached is a picture of the skid mark. I was impressed with how long and straight it is. If it was me (smaller bike without ABS), I'm afraid I'd have fishtailed and not braked so smoothly. I'm considering replacing my Victory Octane with an Indian Scout or Chief with ABS largely to get the ABS. Am I correct in thinking this would be a better, much safer choice?

Plant Road surface Asphalt Grass Tar

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Steadfastly

· #41 · 8 d ago

Eagle Six said:
Maximum braking requires maximum traction, a skidding tire has gone beyond it's maximum traction. With one tire locked there may be a small amount of control left for the experienced rider (or lucky rider). With both locked, for the most part all control has been lost, in which case luck may not be your friend.

That is not true. Statistics prove that good tires locked up, provide the most braking. However, it has to be done in a straight line whether on a bike or in a car with all tires locked at the same time.

Eagle Six

· #42 · 8 d ago

DannoXYZ said:
Someone should do something about that!!! Pass some law or something making it illegal for deer to cross roads not at lighted intersections!!!

Arizona Game and Fish had an Elk Crossing test program on Rte 260 just north of Star Valley, you may be familiar if you ever come to the rim that way. It was a failure so they discontinued the test program. In over 15 years I never saw an Elk in that area of the test crossing. Lots of deer before and after and one morning going through Star Valley a huge cow Elk was racing me through town north bound and she was easily keeping up with my Jeep. She finally pulled over and took a breather, my wife's eyes kept getting bigger and bigger as that cow came along side! I thought is was really funny, my wife not so much until later.

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DannoXYZ

· #43 · 8 d ago

Elk? Wow!! I've only been in southern AZ for 2 yrs and most I've run across is couple coyotes in middle of night.

Apparently how crossings are designed makes difference. WA and Oregon has these modelled after ones used in Canada.

Water Water resources Plant Mountain Tree

Animal crossings over and under highways can save big dollars — not just lives — says new study

Collisions between vehicles and large animals, like deer, are not only scary. The medical, car repair and cleanup costs really add up. That is according to a new study out of Washington State University that supports the case for building more wildlife crossings on highways.

www.opb.org

I saw similar ones for reindeer when visiting Vancouver couple years ago. I'm sure we don't have such massive migrations here. But all it takes is one set of antlers and you're goner!

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Eagle Six

· #44 · 8 d ago

I'm located up in the White Mountains, a few months ago I waited for a heard of Elk, closet I could count was 225. There is also a local heard in the Alpine area (about 20 minutes from my place) of at least 200. Some are the size of large deer and some look almost like moose!! Ride up the Devil's Highway (Coronado Trail), at the top from Blue Ridge Look Out through Hannigan's Meadow to Alpine and you are in Elk Country.

DannoXYZ

· #45 · 8 d ago

Yeah! Looking forward to trip on Devil's Highway in couple weeks when track-season's over for summer-break!

Unkle Krusty

· #46 · 7 d ago

The Coquihala highway in BC has many crossings for the animals.
Speed limit is about 65mph I think.
For the comments about corners, rain and deer, there are solutions.
To not go around a corner at normal speeds if you can not see around the corner. God will not save you.
For all the modern electronic gizmos. Does the motorcycle accident rate verify that there are less crashes.
For braking, one improvement is the quality of the brakes and the tyres. That might be two. And the suspension is a lot better, not to mention the bike frames. Vot is not helping is the total mass of the bikes and riders.

I hate to be picky, but if your track results are good, I might ask, who did you run against. However I encourage anyone to ride around the tracks, with some help by the pros.
The tyres will talk to you. The front and back make different sounds. Stopping less mass, is more efficient. Einstein said so.

If a deer steps out in front of you, think about plan B and C, not stopping. Let the bike hit the deer. You can go over the top, or hit the ditch, or whatever you can think of in a nano second.
About four feet is the closest for me on a bike. 18 inches in my small pick up, and that was one of the big deer.

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bweighmaster

· #47 · 7 d ago

Great reply ... entertaining , and factual... Ever think about slowing , and swerving ?
That is my out .... got me a dog / cat the other night with my little scooter ... Could'nt tell...
Just held my line , ran right over it .. Did'nt even slow down .... Butt puckered a little , But did'nt panic ....

Heartbroken

· #48 · 6 d ago

Eagle Six said:
I currently live and ride in mule deer country (along with Elk, antelope, sheep, coyotes, etc.). They can surprise us, but in general they are not as fast and unpredictable as those white tail bambies!! I used to live and ride in places in the midwest and east where it wasn't a matter of hitting a deer rather how many. OK, it wasn't that bad but you get what I mean.

It's that bad here! I've come close several times on my bike, though thankfully was able to stop in time. That was with Old Bike. Haven't had the encounter yet with New Bike who does have ABS, not sure what will happen with that. With Old Bike I hit both brakes hard, locked the tires enough that they barked, then let off right quick before I lost control. Happened twice, still not sure how I managed to do it right and not crash or hit the stupid thing. Both incidents were in the same stretch of road so I don't ride that section anymore.
But with my truck, I think I'm up to 9 or 10, I've lost count. Pegged another one a couple of weeks ago so now I have to replace the right hand headlights again. And that's just that truck; I've gotten several with each of my previous vehicles. And it's not always that I hit them, quite a few times it's been a deer leaping up out of the ditch, and slamming into the side of my vehicle. One got me in the driver's door; I was going along, minding my own business, when suddenly my window exploded. It was opening day and for a few panicked seconds there I thought I'd been shot, before I realized a large doe had run into me at full speed.

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Eagle Six

· #49 · 5 d ago

I've never been run into by a deer, but did have a horse broadside me, left quarter panel, he raised the whole rear end of my 59 Pontiac 98 convertible!

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DannoXYZ

· #50 · 5 d ago (Edited)

bweighmaster said:
Great reply ... entertaining , and factual... Ever think about slowing , and swerving ?
That is my out .... got me a dog / cat the other night with my little scooter ... Could'nt tell...
Just held my line , ran right over it .. Did'nt even slow down .... Butt puckered a little , But did'nt panic ....

I think squirrel is about as big as I'd want to go over while swerving. Maybe small cat or dog.

Tried to swerve around cat that ran across road once. Running over kat when swerving lifted my tyre enough that it slid out and crashed. Damn cat didn't even come over to see if I was OK, just kept on running to other wide of road!

EDIT: changed to "while swerving", brain fart.

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Eagle Six

· #51 · 5 d ago

Serving is a technique that is sometimes useful. Not a great tactic for a lot of game animals or pets, it's likely that it will only work 50% of the time. Those critters have a way of second guessing us!!!

Sparkman

· #52 · 4 d ago

DannoXYZ said:
I think squirrel is about as big as I'd want to go over in straight line. Maybe small cat or dog.

Tried to swerve around cat that ran across road once. Running over kat when swerving lifted my tyre enough that it slid out and crashed. Damn cat didn't even come over to see if I was OK, just kept on running to other wide of road!

I nailed a large rabbit once and almost dumped the bike because I tried to swerve and brake hard. The bike wobbled like hell, but I kept it up. I would have been better off hitting it straight on. The rabbit did not survive.

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BAZININJA

· #53 · 4 d ago

Sparkman said:
I nailed a large rabbit once and almost dumped the bike because I tried to swerve and brake hard. The bike wobbled like hell, but I kept it up. I would have been better off hitting it straight on. The rabbit did not survive.

Glad you made it out! If there's a next time, separate braking from swerving and it'll be a lot less scary.

And maybe the rabbit will survive, too!🐰

RacingJake

· #54 · 3 d ago (Edited)

I was taken down by a Turkey Vulture when coming around a corner and bang ! If you got time you got more options, sometimes you don't. If you don't believe me I'll stand by the road with a trash can and will see how good you are LOL.

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FlipFlop

· #55 · 3 d ago

Steadfastly said:
That is not true. Statistics prove that good tires locked up, provide the most braking. However, it has to be done in a straight line whether on a bike or in a car with all tires locked at the same time.

@Eagle Six is more correct, sliding tires is very incorrect. You can not turn therefore you can not control. That was his point.

Drivingfast.net said:
Braking - Drivingfast.net

A driver's guide to braking, one of the most important skills required to drive quickly on a track and essential to master for the road.

drivingfast.net

.

At what point is maximum braking efficiency produced?

Threshold braking is the best strategy to adopt to gain maximum braking performance on tarmac. The point of maximum braking performance is found before the point of wheel lock, and when using threshold braking the driver attempts to try and keep the braking pressure just before this point. Practically, it’s often very difficult to know exactly the point at which wheels will lock as many factors are at play such as tarmac conditions, tyre choice and brake temperature.

Steadfastly

· #56 · 3 d ago

FlipFlop said:
@Eagle Six is more correct, sliding tires is very incorrect. You can not turn therefore you can not control. That was his point.

I covered that in a previous post. I wasn't speaking about turning but straight line braking. Anyone with just a little experience knows you can't turn with locked up tires.

Steadfastly

· #57 · 3 d ago

RacingJake said:
I was taken down by a Turkey Vulture when coming around a corner and bang ! If you got time you got more options, sometimes you don't. If you don't believe me I'll stand by the road with a trash can and will see how good you are LOL.

The problem with Turkey Vultures is their size limits their ability to get airborne in a hurry. I've come close to hitting them in my car as they just got over the roof even with me jumping on the binders.

whatarush

· #58 · 3 d ago

I found out that when a turkey vulture is taking flight it throws up trying to lift off faster. Needless to say, not only did I hit it…I got puked on before impact 🤮

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Eagle Six

· #59 · 3 d ago

Four wheel (and more) vehicles are inherently more stable from tipping over even when they are in a skid. Nonetheless if all tires are skidding, in general, on the street they will drift and control during the skid is lost. Motorcycles, even in a straight line, will drift uncontrollably when both tires are skidding and most often the balance to keep upright will be lost. I have met and know many so called experienced riders that went down with front and rear tires skidding as well as those with either tire skidding. Some had plenty of distance to safely threshold brake and avoid a crash, yet they thought skidding tires brake sorter than traction tires. Self-train and practice emergency threshold braking often. Better yet add to that a high performance training class and get professional coaching to determine what is maximum threshold braking on your motorcycle. Some crashes may not be avoidable, but that isn't a reason for us not to train to avoid the ones within our developed skill level.

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Steadfastly

· #60 · 3 d ago

Eagle Six said:
Self-train and practice emergency threshold braking often. Some crashes may not be avoidable, but that isn't a reason for us not to train to avoid the ones within our developed skill level.

Excellent advice!

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