ABS & Deer

1873 Views 97 Replies 24 Participants Last post by Eagle Six, 1 d ago

Gary Rider

Discussion Starter · 17 d ago

My friend recently crashed his HD 2017 Road Glide Ultra FLTRU when 2 deer crossed the road in front of him. I'm wondering how much having a big bike with ABS helped him come out almost completely unharmed. Unfortunately, one of the deer was less lucky. Certainly having front and rear crash bars saved him from a lot of road rash. Attached is a picture of the skid mark. I was impressed with how long and straight it is. If it was me (smaller bike without ABS), I'm afraid I'd have fishtailed and not braked so smoothly. I'm considering replacing my Victory Octane with an Indian Scout or Chief with ABS largely to get the ABS. Am I correct in thinking this would be a better, much safer choice?

Plant Road surface Asphalt Grass Tar

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canadianguy

· #2 · 17 d ago (Edited)

I'm confused, ABS wouldn't allow for a lock up and a skid mark like that. Maybe he had just the front ABS engaged, not sure, not familiar with the bike. Anyway I'm generally looking for the front brake to do 90% of the stopping.

Anyway, it depends on the style of riding a person does and the experience a person has whether ABS will benefit a particular circumstance imo. Newer ABS is pretty sophisticated and with lean angle telemetry can be pretty helpful, say when your going into a corner too fast but for a straight line on pavement non ABS will always stop the bike quicker for the experienced rider and the term is called "threshold breaking", and off road where the tires are slipping around in dirt and gravel ABS can feel like there's almost no brakes from the confusion of tire rotation and locking up under light braking which then releases the hydraulics, it gets dangerous actually and most off road riders will turn ABS off and TC. Experience is the fundamental advantage in any situation and relying on ABS is probably not how we want to learn to engage the front brake. imo.

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Calculon

· #3 · 17 d ago

I don't think there's much question as to whether ABS offers better control and shorter stopping distance, but ABS is only one of a many factors that will determine the outcome of a potential accident.

gunsmoker

· #4 · 17 d ago

How does one lay down a 50 foot skid of rubber on the pavement without having a wheel locked?

And if your wheel was locked
doesn't that mean A.B.S. didn't work?

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Tinsnips

· #5 · 17 d ago

I was under the impression motorcycle ABS is for the front wheel to prevent it locking and either sliding out or throwing you over the bars. I didn't think the rear brake was under ABS control. Traction control is for the back wheel - to prevent it from spinning under power. Could be wrong, just my understanding of it.

That being so straight I am thinking it is the rear tire dropping anchor. Possibly also the result of a violent double or triple downshift if he is quick enough on the shifter...done that a few times too.

I had ABS on my last bike and it only kicked in once. Scared the **** out of me & honestly, when ever you are in the brakes that far it is not a good time to startle the rider. That said, it probably kept me from washing out the front so in the long run did it's job to my advantage. I would have it again but it is not a deal breaker or a feature I would pursue.

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Unkle Krusty

· #6 · 17 d ago (Edited)

That looks like a rear tyre skid mark.
ABS is most often on the front. With ABS the front brake can be applied with a lot of force.
I would suggest that was not the situation here, and the rear brake was stomped on.

If I am wrong, I apologise. But that is a long skid mark, and much longer the the length of stopping from 60, when the brakes are used correctly, with or without ABS. I am not an ABS fan. I have done several hundred stops from 120 plus, and never left a skid mark like that.

Good that the rider did not sustain serious injury. Yesterday I discovered that one peacock, is a bigger problem than a bunch of wild turkeys.

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wwb

· #7 · 17 d ago

Unkle Krusty said:
......... But that is a long skid mark, and much longer the the length of stopping from 60, when the brakes are used correctly. ......

Yup.... not to start a flame war, but an awful lot of H-D riders don't use the front brake much, if at all. And that definitely looks like the front brake was not used.

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Gary Rider

Discussion Starter · #8 · 17 d ago

My friend said it all happened in a flash and he can't describe in detail what he did, or what happened, though he thinks he may have only hit the rear brake (meaning ABS wasn't even a factor?). In his mind, he saw the deer and the impact was almost immediate, though that doesn't seem to make sense. He doesn't recall slowing down before impact. The marks on the road are approximately 60 or 70 feet of tire skid (black mark), then he went down on his left side, and there's another 70' of his crash bar scraping on the ground. The deer ended up about 20' further from where he stopped, off the road to the right.

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bweighmaster

· #9 · 17 d ago

Gary Rider said:
My friend recently crashed his HD 2017 Road Glide Ultra FLTRU when 2 deer crossed the road in front of him. I'm wondering how much having a big bike with ABS helped him come out almost completely unharmed. Unfortunately, one of the deer was less lucky. Certainly having front and rear crash bars saved him from a lot of road rash. Attached is a picture of the skid mark. I was impressed with how long and straight it is. If it was me (smaller bike without ABS), I'm afraid I'd have fishtailed and not braked so smoothly. I'm considering replacing my Victory Octane with an Indian Scout or Chief with ABS largely to get the ABS. Am I correct in thinking this would be a better, much safer choice? View attachment 80104

Something ain't right here ..... A good rider does'nt panic stop ... Unless it's just an un-avoidable circumstance ... Good riders always leave an out .. This was completely avoidable ... skid mark too long .. should have released brake to gain manuverability ...

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Sparkman

· #10 · 16 d ago

bweighmaster said:
Something ain't right here ..... A good rider does'nt panic stop ... Unless it's just an un-avoidable circumstance ... Good riders always leave an out .. This was completely avoidable ... skid mark too long .. should have released brake to gain manuverability ...

Agree. Also more people use the front brake almost exclusively ( right or wrong) I recall from the MSF course that approx 70% of one's braking comes from the front brake. A lot of folks here know more about it than I do, and I respect their knowledge.

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App's321

· #11 · 16 d ago

Ya really have one quick move with a bike and the next puts you on the ground. Looks like the bike traveled some distance sliding on its metal on the blacktop. Good to hear no real injuries to the Rider. That front fork just lays ya down hard.

bweighmaster

· #12 · 16 d ago

Just for the record , if tires lock up , release , and re-apply .. You can't steer a locked up tire .

BAZININJA

· #13 · 16 d ago (Edited)

bweighmaster said:
Just for the record , if tires lock up , release , and re-apply .. You can't steer a locked up tire .

Don't release the rear unless you know FOR CERTAIN that the rear wheel is in line with the front. Otherwise, when the brake is released and the wheel resumes rolling, it will cause the bike to snap the back bike in line and throw you off in a high side fall. Believe it or not, I had this happen to a student just today at 20-25mph. First time in 14 years of coaching. It looked like she sort of cartwheeled. She didn't hit her head, but hurt her left pinky finger and she had a couple scrapes. We teach that the rule of thumb for a rear skid is to just ride it out. Why? Because it usually happens so fast that you won't know for sure if the tires are aligned. Case is point right here.

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bweighmaster

· #14 · 16 d ago

That is the rule for skids . In line braking as in panic mode is a different scenario ...

Calculon

· #15 · 16 d ago

bweighmaster said:
This was completely avoidable

Having hit a deer last year in my car, I can say I heard it before I saw it. I didn't even hit the brakes.

I thought the front wheel ABS only was a small scooter thing. Perhaps the Harley didn't have ABS. You can look at the front or rear disc for the ABS ring to see if it has it.

DannoXYZ

· #16 · 16 d ago (Edited)

Depending upon system used, ABS can be rudimentary or sophisticated. Honda has combined ABS where stabbing the pedal in panic activates both front & rear brakes simultaneously with ABS control. AND you're able steer and change course while under maximum-braking... in the rain!!!

This Harley's supposedly has linked ABS brakes too. But it doesn't appear to be working well... maybe calibration issue...

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BAZININJA

· #17 · 16 d ago

I'm puzzled by what I'm seeing here if this bike has ABS. Was it disabled? My last three NINJAs have all had front and rear ABS. Occasionally, I'm a little heavy on the rear during quick stops and the ABS bumps my right foot. Then I have to chastise myself because, dang it, I'm better than that.

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BAZININJA

· #18 · 16 d ago (Edited)

bweighmaster said:
That is the rule for skids . In line braking as in panic mode is a different scenario ...

Number 1, we never panic on a motorcycle. Bad things tend to happen.
I don't understand what you mean by "in line braking as in panic mode". Does it cause...skidding?

Maybe it's apples and oranges, but I had a rear tire blow on my 2003 Ram 2500 when I was pulling a trailer at 70 mph. Scared the **** out of me and I did indeed panic and slammed on the brakes (wrong thing to do, don't recall having learned that unless it was eons ago in drivers' ed and I forgot), ditching the whole rig (See? Bad things happen). Supposedly the truck has ABS, but the light goes on and off randomly so I suspect that it doesn't work (bought the truck used, no clue). I would think if the ABS was working, the truck would have continued straight; however, the trailer had brakes but no ABS so if those locked (although I don't think so because there were no flat spots on the tires), would that have ditched me?

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bweighmaster

· #19 · 16 d ago

Skids are when tires are no longer in line .... straight line braking is always preferred ....

Unkle Krusty

· #20 · 16 d ago

When I was the rider safety inspector, a long time ago.
I would ask the riders to give me a detailed report on what happened.
The rookies generally said it happened so fast, I have no idea.
The experienced fast riders gave me a mili second be mili second account of what happened.

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