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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a number of good flashlights but I have not been carrying one with me for years, ever since I have a light in my Iphone for most uses. But a powerful, blinding light can serve as a good self defense tool, giving you time to get away from an attacker, without having to risk breaking the law or shooting someone where a jury might well rule you were not justified in doing so. So now I'm thinking of getting a new, really powerful (1,600 lumen) pocket flashlight, the Fenix PD36R. I'm wondering if anyone here is a flashlight fan like I am, and might actually have this particular flashlight. I'd appreciate any comments from anyone that owns one, before I plunk down the $100 for this item.
 

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Everyone carries a torch ( flash light ) on the Island. There are no street lights. Makes it hard to put the key in the bike.
Use to be the fuzz made good use of a large torch as a billy club. At night it was already in their hand, so was a quicker draw than the BC. You guys might call it a night stick.

UK
 

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I don't have a problem with you using that particular flashlight. I have numerous flashlight throughout my apartment but none with 1600 lumen. Mine are 600 and 800, more than bright enough for my use. The problem I have with all of these self-defense items is access.
 

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I recently watch a video which talked about the 5 things everyone that carries a gun should also have with them. One of those five was a flashlight. He described a non uncommon situation of coming to your car in a dark parking lot and seeing someone crouched down between your car and the next car. He described using the non dominant hand to hold a bright flashlight on the person in question while your dominant hand is resting on your concealed gun in case you need to draw it. The light will both reveal what the person is doing, and will temporarily render them blinded enough to provide effective defense without a need for brandishing. This seemed to make sense to me, in addition to other times that a flashlight would be handy, and the one in question that I asked about at the start of this thread is certainly powerful enough to blind anyone at close range. I have a Streamlight Pro-Tac 2L, at 350 lumens, that might be good enough for this purpose, but the Fenix seemed even better.
 

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Two issues -- don't generally like rechargeable gadgets unless they are something I use regularly (phone, notepad, whatever) and I much prefer lights that have just an on-off switch, as it seems the light is always at the wrong stage of its cycle otherwise... I carry a 2-cell Maglight... not as bright as the mega-tacticals, but always works and always does what I want it to (and is short enough to fit in the tool-bag unlike the 3-cell variety I have in the truck...).
 

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More important than the light itself is the method one uses when employing a light. With that said, to get any kind of momentary incapacitation it takes upwards of 1,200-1,500 lumens, and that momentary moment is a part of a second. Above 2,500 lumens and that moment could be extended to over a second. A strong light does have the capability to damage night vision for a short period if no protection is used. The strobe effect can be disorientating but can also do that to the user.

Advances in light technology certainly has made some leaps since Sure-Fire introduced the P3. P6. P9 series of tactical handheld lights. Strong LED's, long lasting batteries, reduced weight, compact size, switch options, endurance, and reduced prices have made available some really strong contenders.

I'm not familiar with this specific light, but I do have some reservations based on the website features list. The primary being the tactical switch in the rear cap. It says it has a tap for momentary on, and a click on, click off. The click on, click off is for searching not tactical. A press hold on, release off pressure switch is the only switch worth being tactical, and that is not how it is described. It also doesn't appear to have an adjustable beam. I don't prefer rechargeables without the option of using throw-away batteries. The size is about right, as it is small enough to be carried on the body and without it being on our body it can not be considered a handheld tactical light.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I only have two hands. One for the flashlight, one for my gun. If I had a third hand I could also be holding a billy club. I'm old, and hope to not have to get close enough to the thug to try to use a billy club. Two rounds at 2 yards seems much neater and safer.
 

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I only have two hands. One for the flashlight, one for my gun
+1


The defensive part of using a tactical light is tp provide distance to either escape or defend using a firearm and avoid contact. Doesn't mean we cannot defend ourselves using some sort of contact force devise or body parts, but that is reducing the advantage of a firearm to equalize the opponents. Commonly 2 yards is contact distance. Not near enough separations from a bad guy meaning harm, especially if we are older, smaller, slower, or have others depending on us to defend them. Of course we can use a light at close distances, but the advantage is to identify threats at a distance which may allow us to escape or bring other means to bear on the attack before the attacker can get close enough to disarm and/or injure us.
 

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I bet one of those super bright LED lights would give you a couple seconds of shock, but I have a possible better idea. Buy a super bright laser pointer..I have a large green one I use to point out things at work that is devastatingly bright, the spot can be seen hundreds of feet away in sunlight, the reflected light off a wall 20 feet away is painful and leaves spots in your eyes, I can't even imagine what that would do if it hit someones eye directly..the pain would stop them in their tracks I'm sure. I don't know if it would do anything permanent, it might..
The only tough part is aim, it's a small spot.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
With what's happened to my 401K in the last few days, I think I need to put aside thoughts of buying any new toys.
 

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A laser pointer doesn't provide the advantages of a light, that being to illuminate an area to determine if there is a threat. There also may be the probably of legal actions taken from a laser light in the eye. Not implying anyone should not use a laser pointer if that is what they are comfortable using, just that it does not fulfill the role of a tactical handheld light and would seem to me as a poor substitute.
 

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Xenon flash, i.e. camera flash is very effective at creating temporary blindness. Not very useful for anything else, but in this age of cameras in phones, 2nd hand flashes the size of a pack of smokes, running off a pair of AA batteries, can be had very inexpensively. I have used them, on occasion, as a substitute for a flashlight, flash, walk a few steps, flash, walk a few steps, repeat.

Interestingly, the inverter / capacitor circuitry in a camera flash can be easily hacked to provide the source for a pretty nasty shock. Clearly prone to cause you trouble from the bad guy's court appointed lawyer down the road, but perhaps not as much as shooting him. Dropping the hacked device on the pavement and application of a boot heel could quickly convert it back into a broken camera flash.
 

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Vito trust me I feel your pain, 4000 points drop this week. At least the stock market is closed on the weekend.
 

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A laser pointer doesn't provide the advantages of a light, that being to illuminate an area to determine if there is a threat. There also may be the probably of legal actions taken from a laser light in the eye. Not implying anyone should not use a laser pointer if that is what they are comfortable using, just that it does not fulfill the role of a tactical handheld light and would seem to me as a poor substitute.
I'd imagine the legal action from 'accidentally' hitting the bad guy in the eye and disabling him for a while (I doubt it would do anything permanent) with a laser while 'trying to see where he was in the dark' would be less troublesome than what would result from shooting him 'accidentally'
But who knows these days..
 

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I'd imagine the legal action from 'accidentally' hitting the bad guy in the eye and disabling him for a while (I doubt it would do anything permanent) with a laser while 'trying to see where he was in the dark' would be less troublesome than what would result from shooting him 'accidentally'
But who knows these days..
You make a point, but I think it is misplaced or second placed. The purpose of a tactical light is to first have a light, powerful enough to provide the means to detect if there is a threat in the first place. Secondary is to have enough lumens to provide somewhat of a shock if placed directly in the opponents eyes. A laser provides none of the first requirement. Your assumption is that the person is a bad guy meaning you harm, however a laser light is of little use to identify a threat in the dark.

Following the OP and his second post scenario, a better tactical/strategic option may be to withdraw to a safer location, perhaps with cover to illuminate the subject for identification. Somewhere that allows more protection and ability to evade if the subject is going on the attack. The person could be kneeling down to pickup a item that they dropped, perhaps their keys for the car next to yours. Innocent persons are more likely to make a claim against you even if the damage was only temporary, and depending on the damage may very well have a winnable case.

In almost all scenarios distance is your friend. Once you get to the short distance to have the ability to pin point a laser beam in someones eye, you are in the danger zone, not to mention the difficulty it is to pin point a laser light beam on a 1" target, especially if that target is moving. I'm certainly not arguing against not deploying a laser light, that is your choice, just that the laser light makes a poor alternative to a tactical light.

We know there are thousands of different scenarios and not a single option is best for all. Depending on what happens we could be ill advised to use a light or a laser. Having both and using the appropriate tool is an option, as well as, a gun, a knife, a baton, or other tools. How many tools do we carry? Again, just stating that a laser light makes a poor substitute for a tactical light, that being the subject of the thread.
 
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