Leaning on a 250r

Dexter Morgan · 11-05-2009, 11:39 AM

How far can you lean a 250r into turns? I'm new to riding and so far I haven't had any major issues but when I come to a turn I'll sometimes find myself taking the turn slower so I don't have to lean the bike as much. Also is learning the throttle and clutch similar to a standard on a car? I've driven a 5 speed car for about 3 years and now driving it has become second nature. I've stalled my bike twice in the few months that I've had it. How long does it take to where you just start from a stop without having to really think about what you're doing? Because right now I always find myself thinking a lot when I first start and making sure I get the right ratio of throttle and clutch. I haven't had the chance to ride very often but that's going to change when I move into my house next week since I'll be able to keep my bike there. I plan on keeping the 250r for a long time which is pretty clear from my lack of experience. I'm just trying to get any help that I can.

primalmu · 11-05-2009, 12:05 PM

The best advice I can give you is to take an MSF course. There's no substitute for having an experienced riding coach teach you to ride.

As far as leaning, there's no reason you can't lean a Ninja 250 any more than a supersport. Don't be afraid to lean!

Regarding clutch control, I think most riders have it down within 2-3 weeks of regular riding. If you've still not mastered it after a couple months, either you're not riding very much or you need some instruction. Refer to my comment above about the MSF course.

Dexter Morgan · 11-05-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primalmu

The best advice I can give you is to take an MSF course. There's no substitute for having an experienced riding coach teach you to ride.

As far as leaning, there's no reason you can't lean a Ninja 250 any more than a supersport. Don't be afraid to lean!

Regarding clutch control, I think most riders have it down within 2-3 weeks of regular riding. If you've still not mastered it after a couple months, either you're not riding very much or you need some instruction. Refer to my comment above about the MSF course.

I haven't been riding much. Last night was the first time I've been on the bike in 3 months. In the six months I've had it I've taken it out less than 10 times and even that was just short around the city stuff. I have had to keep it at my parents house because I can't keep it at my apt which is why it hasn't been rode much. But like I said that will change when I get my house and have a garage to keep it in. I'll look into the MSF course.

PJL · 11-05-2009, 12:49 PM

With warmed up tires on dry pavement free of other hazards such as oil spots or gravel, you can lean until you drag a peg.

Tdubb · 11-05-2009, 01:10 PM

Some people think a bigger tire means you can lean more, and thats completely wrong. In fact the bigger your tire is the harder it is to lean, not saying you can't lean as far, but just harder to get the bike to lay over.

I have a friend that went from a 170 rear on his Duc to a 180 rear, and it handles like sh!t.

Another friend of mine went from a 190 rear on his R1 to a 180, and that thing rolls over in corners great, in fact I may try that for my next rear tire.

But bottom line is what ever tires your bike comes with, is what the bike was designed for, so it's probably best to leave them like they are. I'm just a little hard headed so I usually have to learn the hard way.

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

How far can you lean a 250r into turns?

Till it loses traction and comes out from under you.

....ok but seriously, just look at your chicken strips. You can lean that thing hard enough to not have any chicken strips, but I dont recommend doing that until you feel you are ready. Normally with a new bike, i go out for a ride, and check the chicken strips. I keep going until Ive got around 1/4" of strip left...then I remember that lean angle, and memorize it as my max, thats the limit I wont exceed. On my 09 ninja 250r, thats about 30deg from horizontal is max in my opinion...anything beyond that is testing god.

Quote:

I'm new to riding and so far I haven't had any major issues but when I come to a turn I'll sometimes find myself taking the turn slower so I don't have to lean the bike as much.

The bike is designed to really lean over...and quite far into a corner. Dont be afraid to lean it over, but dont go beyond your skill level either. Id say keep your leans under 45deg until you get used to it, and only on bone dry road. And there is ABSOLUTLY NOTHING wrong with taking a turn slower. If thats what you need to do, then do it. Listen to your gut feeling...

Quote:

Also is learning the throttle and clutch similar to a standard on a car? I've driven a 5 speed car for about 3 years and now driving it has become second nature. I've stalled my bike twice in the few months that I've had it. How long does it take to where you just start from a stop without having to really think about what you're doing? Because right now I always find myself thinking a lot when I first start and making sure I get the right ratio of throttle and clutch.

Dont think just do. Use the force and all that jazz. Sometimes when you think to hard about something, it makes it harder. Sure it takes a little while, but you'll get it. Its different for everybody. Just be patient...it will come.

If you are having alot of difficulty though and its creating a problem with your riding, you might want to have a shop go over the clutch with you and make adjustments for you.

Quote:

I haven't had the chance to ride very often but that's going to change when I move into my house next week since I'll be able to keep my bike there. I plan on keeping the 250r for a long time which is pretty clear from my lack of experience. I'm just trying to get any help that I can.

Yup, me too. I plan on keeping my 250r till the wheels fall off.

Dexter Morgan · 11-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Thanks for all the advise. In my head I know that I can probably safely lean the bike a lot more than I have been but once I start going into a turn I worry about how much is too much. I guess as I keep riding I'll gain confidence and I'll start learning new things that I can do on the bike. I'm just taking things slow right and not trying to do more than my ability will allow me to do.

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 03:29 PM

Dont exceed this....

And before you come anywhere close to that, you better have your tires warmed up and be on a really dry clean road. If your rear isnt at 100F or above...dont even think about it.

Biker Dash · 11-05-2009, 04:55 PM

bd, I would love to be able to corner my ACE at that angle, but I think I would be removing my pegs the hard way doin so lol

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 05:40 PM

The thing about 30 deg is that that is the max...seriously. At that lean angle, you are riding on a contact patch that includes the last 1/4" of tread. Thats just cutting it real close for the street. If you so much as lightly touch a painted line or manhole...you're gonna end up sliding.

On the average in the twisties, I normally dont have to exceed 40 deg...which is my comfort zone. I feel pretty safe up to that point on a good dry clean public road. There are occasions where Ive exceeded 40deg, but I try not too unless I know its a good line with the apex in the right place, and Im sure of road conditions.

At 40deg, its still well within the "fun factor" of lean angles, and it leaves the entire contact patch on the tread with about 1/4" left over before the edge of the tread...thats a nice safety buffer.

It looks like this.

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 05:51 PM

If you notice with the 30deg lean....the foot pegs are about 1/2" off the ground...and I guarentee that the little peg feelers are bouncing, and scraping.

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 06:03 PM

I was riding through my neighborhood a few days ago...and there is one corner, where if you actually do the speed limit, you could get a peg down. Its only like 25mph or so, but its pretty much a rounded off 100 deg turn or so.

So anyway, Im coming around the corner, and Ive got my butt shifted over, and my knee down..hovering just off the deck...bike was about 40deg or so....and my neighbor was driving by in his SUV...of course he was crawling at 5mph.

So when I passed him, I hit the apex and rolled on it...to about 45 coming out of the corner.

I saw him later, and he said..."That was the coolest thing Ive ever seen"

So dont think you have to be flying 70mph to get it leaned over...If you practice, you can get it leaned over in just about any curve.

Oh and he would sware I hit that thing at 60 or something...its all an illusion. Kinda like tucking at 45mph....people think you are freakin flying. HAHAHA

Biker Dash · 11-05-2009, 08:49 PM

I've had people tell me I'm crazy for passing through the 45 deg mark...

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 10:43 PM

Lets take a look at a professional's lean angle.

I superimposed a professional racer over our protractor, so you can see what his lean angle is. Nearly 90% of all the racers out there also stick to that 40deg angle. In this perticular corner, the racer has two options....either stay put on the seat, and take the corner at an extreme lean angle like 30deg, or shift weight on the seat. By shifting weight on the seat, it allows the bike to maintain a shallower lean angle, while keeping a 30deg angle performance due to the shifted weight.

Bear in mind that the typical contact patch on the rear tire is oval in shape. Its about as wide as a half dollar, and about 3-4" long. So with the 40 deg lean angle, the entire contact patch is on the tread of the tire. If the lean angle is increased to 30deg....the contact patch has a portion sliced off of one side of that where the contact patch has overlapped the edge of the tire.

If you do take turns at 40deg, you need to make absolutly certain that the corner has good road conditions...no dirt, sand, gravel, oil etc. In the twisties, this is easily accomplished by running a warm up run...just a gentle cruising run, to observe road conditions, and learn the turns, and plan your lines. Then run it.

Bear in mind that you dont have to be speeding to do this...many riders confuse twisty with haul butt...and that doesnt have to be the case. As many of us have seen, you can drag pegs at 20mph.

Be careful and have fun.

bdavison · 11-05-2009, 10:59 PM

Something else....many people see pro racers, dropping a knee, and think its just the "cool" way to do it or something....but it has a purpose.

The rider is using his knee as a "feeler" for locating that 40deg lean angle. As the rider enters the turn and dives in...he puts his knee down. Its all muscle memory. He knows that with his knee down, if the knee puck touches he's either at, or exceeding the lean angle.

justin68106 · 11-05-2009, 11:35 PM

Also, racers are taking some of those corners at 135mph, they need to throw more of their weight to the side of the bike to get it to lean over, you won't need to do that going through the twisties

Badlands-4-2 · 11-06-2009, 09:35 AM

I like the angle gauge that you found for this post. After looking at it I guess that I do not get anywhere close to that "professional lean" on my Venture before the boards are on the ground. That being said I love the feeling of leaning that bike over in a curve, even if it not that much of a lean.

11-05-2009, 11:39 AM	#1
Dexter Morgan Motorcyclist Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 13	Leaning on a 250r How far can you lean a 250r into turns? I'm new to riding and so far I haven't had any major issues but when I come to a turn I'll sometimes find myself taking the turn slower so I don't have to lean the bike as much. Also is learning the throttle and clutch similar to a standard on a car? I've driven a 5 speed car for about 3 years and now driving it has become second nature. I've stalled my bike twice in the few months that I've had it. How long does it take to where you just start from a stop without having to really think about what you're doing? Because right now I always find myself thinking a lot when I first start and making sure I get the right ratio of throttle and clutch. I haven't had the chance to ride very often but that's going to change when I move into my house next week since I'll be able to keep my bike there. I plan on keeping the 250r for a long time which is pretty clear from my lack of experience. I'm just trying to get any help that I can.

11-05-2009, 12:05 PM	#2
primalmu 2005 Bandit 1200S Join Date: May 2008 Location: Starkville, MS Posts: 4,303	The best advice I can give you is to take an MSF course. There's no substitute for having an experienced riding coach teach you to ride. As far as leaning, there's no reason you can't lean a Ninja 250 any more than a supersport. Don't be afraid to lean! Regarding clutch control, I think most riders have it down within 2-3 weeks of regular riding. If you've still not mastered it after a couple months, either you're not riding very much or you need some instruction. Refer to my comment above about the MSF course. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-05-2009, 03:29 PM	#8
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	Dont exceed this.... And before you come anywhere close to that, you better have your tires warmed up and be on a really dry clean road. If your rear isnt at 100F or above...dont even think about it. __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs. Last edited by bdavison; 11-05-2009 at 03:31 PM..

11-05-2009, 05:40 PM	#10
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	The thing about 30 deg is that that is the max...seriously. At that lean angle, you are riding on a contact patch that includes the last 1/4" of tread. Thats just cutting it real close for the street. If you so much as lightly touch a painted line or manhole...you're gonna end up sliding. On the average in the twisties, I normally dont have to exceed 40 deg...which is my comfort zone. I feel pretty safe up to that point on a good dry clean public road. There are occasions where Ive exceeded 40deg, but I try not too unless I know its a good line with the apex in the right place, and Im sure of road conditions. At 40deg, its still well within the "fun factor" of lean angles, and it leaves the entire contact patch on the tread with about 1/4" left over before the edge of the tread...thats a nice safety buffer. It looks like this. __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs.

11-05-2009, 05:51 PM	#11
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	If you notice with the 30deg lean....the foot pegs are about 1/2" off the ground...and I guarentee that the little peg feelers are bouncing, and scraping. __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs.

11-05-2009, 12:49 PM	#4
PJL Exorcising My Angels Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Schenectady, NY Posts: 656	With warmed up tires on dry pavement free of other hazards such as oil spots or gravel, you can lean until you drag a peg.

11-05-2009, 01:10 PM	#5
Tdubb Super Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,189	Some people think a bigger tire means you can lean more, and thats completely wrong. In fact the bigger your tire is the harder it is to lean, not saying you can't lean as far, but just harder to get the bike to lay over. I have a friend that went from a 170 rear on his Duc to a 180 rear, and it handles like sh!t. Another friend of mine went from a 190 rear on his R1 to a 180, and that thing rolls over in corners great, in fact I may try that for my next rear tire. But bottom line is what ever tires your bike comes with, is what the bike was designed for, so it's probably best to leave them like they are. I'm just a little hard headed so I usually have to learn the hard way.

11-05-2009, 03:16 PM	#7
Dexter Morgan Motorcyclist Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 13	Thanks for all the advise. In my head I know that I can probably safely lean the bike a lot more than I have been but once I start going into a turn I worry about how much is too much. I guess as I keep riding I'll gain confidence and I'll start learning new things that I can do on the bike. I'm just taking things slow right and not trying to do more than my ability will allow me to do.

11-05-2009, 04:55 PM	#9
Biker Dash Site Brony and Troll Eater Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Waterville, Maine (USA) Posts: 7,594	bd, I would love to be able to corner my ACE at that angle, but I think I would be removing my pegs the hard way doin so lol

11-05-2009, 06:03 PM	#12
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	I was riding through my neighborhood a few days ago...and there is one corner, where if you actually do the speed limit, you could get a peg down. Its only like 25mph or so, but its pretty much a rounded off 100 deg turn or so. So anyway, Im coming around the corner, and Ive got my butt shifted over, and my knee down..hovering just off the deck...bike was about 40deg or so....and my neighbor was driving by in his SUV...of course he was crawling at 5mph. So when I passed him, I hit the apex and rolled on it...to about 45 coming out of the corner. I saw him later, and he said..."That was the coolest thing Ive ever seen" So dont think you have to be flying 70mph to get it leaned over...If you practice, you can get it leaned over in just about any curve. Oh and he would sware I hit that thing at 60 or something...its all an illusion. Kinda like tucking at 45mph....people think you are freakin flying. HAHAHA __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs. Last edited by bdavison; 11-05-2009 at 06:06 PM..

11-05-2009, 08:49 PM	#13
Biker Dash Site Brony and Troll Eater Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Waterville, Maine (USA) Posts: 7,594	I've had people tell me I'm crazy for passing through the 45 deg mark...

11-05-2009, 10:43 PM	#14
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	Lets take a look at a professional's lean angle. I superimposed a professional racer over our protractor, so you can see what his lean angle is. Nearly 90% of all the racers out there also stick to that 40deg angle. In this perticular corner, the racer has two options....either stay put on the seat, and take the corner at an extreme lean angle like 30deg, or shift weight on the seat. By shifting weight on the seat, it allows the bike to maintain a shallower lean angle, while keeping a 30deg angle performance due to the shifted weight. Bear in mind that the typical contact patch on the rear tire is oval in shape. Its about as wide as a half dollar, and about 3-4" long. So with the 40 deg lean angle, the entire contact patch is on the tread of the tire. If the lean angle is increased to 30deg....the contact patch has a portion sliced off of one side of that where the contact patch has overlapped the edge of the tire. If you do take turns at 40deg, you need to make absolutly certain that the corner has good road conditions...no dirt, sand, gravel, oil etc. In the twisties, this is easily accomplished by running a warm up run...just a gentle cruising run, to observe road conditions, and learn the turns, and plan your lines. Then run it. Bear in mind that you dont have to be speeding to do this...many riders confuse twisty with haul butt...and that doesnt have to be the case. As many of us have seen, you can drag pegs at 20mph. Be careful and have fun. __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs.

11-05-2009, 10:59 PM	#15
bdavison Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 1,349	Something else....many people see pro racers, dropping a knee, and think its just the "cool" way to do it or something....but it has a purpose. The rider is using his knee as a "feeler" for locating that 40deg lean angle. As the rider enters the turn and dives in...he puts his knee down. Its all muscle memory. He knows that with his knee down, if the knee puck touches he's either at, or exceeding the lean angle. __________________ Her profile said 5 11.....yeah lbs.

11-05-2009, 11:35 PM	#16
justin68106 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 2,535	Also, racers are taking some of those corners at 135mph, they need to throw more of their weight to the side of the bike to get it to lean over, you won't need to do that going through the twisties

11-06-2009, 09:35 AM	#17
Badlands-4-2 Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Badlands of North Dakota Posts: 9,650	I like the angle gauge that you found for this post. After looking at it I guess that I do not get anywhere close to that "professional lean" on my Venture before the boards are on the ground. That being said I love the feeling of leaning that bike over in a curve, even if it not that much of a lean.

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