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Old 09-12-2009, 10:24 AM   #1
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Default The Darkside - Car Tires on Bikes

Per request, this is a sticky thread to talk about putting car tires on bikes. Suggestions for conversation:

Have you done it and why?

Do you think you would like to do it at some point?

Is it safe?

Does it add or detract from the bike's appearance?

Keep it civil. If the mods decide that this causes more harm than good, the thread will be locked. Healthy, meaningful conversation is the point of argumentative threads, not to just have a huge flame war.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:36 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezncd View Post
Now before all you guys tell me I will crash and burn a fiery death if I do this I've heard it all before. so don't bother wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise there is hundred and hundreds of people doing this on many different bikes and they have put on millions of miles all combined and one guy even has over 226,000 miles on a GL1800 if you ride your bike 10,000 miles or more in a year, not go bar to bar you may want to look into this you can get 20,000 to 30,000 miles out of one tire and if you chose the run flat tire you can ride up to 50 miles or more to get your self out of trouble. If your open minded do a search on riding the darkside. If not click the back button NOW! I will post this in the Touring forum also


darkside.nwff.info/database.php <----A very small list
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greyboyfan View Post
I've now got 12,500 (apx) miles on my Goodyear Eagle F1. Still looks brand new.

Lemme see now,...(about your thread title) is it, you are curious about running a car tire, or you are looking for "Other" people who are curious about it.
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davezncd View Post
Well both I don't have one yet but I have read everything that I can find about this and I don't understand why people are so close minded about this it seems to be a great way to go until the tire company's get there head out of there butt's and make a touring tire that will last longer then 10,000 miles. I hate to change tire 2 to 3 time a year. I'm going to go what is called double dark on my GL1800 for those who don't know what this is you run a car tire on the rear and put a MC rear tire on the front why? because it has twice the tread of the normal front tire. The front tire AKA rear tire is on the way and I'm soon going to order the run flat rear tire. When my tires wear out I'm going to change them if I can wait that long. greyboyfan what bike do you have yours on??
What is your opinion of the CT compared to the MC tire?
.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:50 AM   #3
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I'm interested in the discussion, although I don't ride thousands and thousands of miles a year.

Still, is there any reason that somebody like me couldn't do this on, say, a Yamaha V-Star 1100? I haven't gone through the first set that came on my used bike yet, but if there's a product available next change that will last much longer without breaking the bank, I'm interested in knowing about it.

I'm going to be lazy and ask this question in the thread of those who already know - what does running a car tire in the back do to stability?

Thanks in advance for the info.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:04 AM   #4
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First question is, How does your bike with a car tire handle large lean angle turns? Without tread on the sidewall I see problems in an extreme situation. Yes normally you would have to worry about it but I am just saying.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:09 AM   #5
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most cruisers won't lean far enough over to get off the tread of a car tire before it starts scraping hard parts....
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:08 AM   #6
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Mine in particular (Gol will confirm this, he has seen me ride, lol). I don't lean much, I take curves slow (when I see them). ;]

But I can see where a problem might arise in some situations, thanks Rex.

Do the wheels have to be changed for this, or are we just getting smaller car tires? I looked at the chart linked above but couldn't decode it instantly. Under the column for rims, some were marked stock, some OEM, some other stuff.

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Old 09-13-2009, 03:30 AM   #7
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since you have the aluminum rims Rofl, you would just get a car tire that would fit, which for your bike...it has a 4.5" wheel, so a 195/65/15..and I also saw one that said 185/95/15....(I saw more f the 195's though) so I think that would be the size you would need....
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:07 AM   #8
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Not all bikes can run a car tire or should run one harley's can't run them unless they are modified I think, it depends on the width of the rim and clearance on the bike. About the lean well on the goldwing GL1800 the most popular tire for the rear is the Kumho Ecsta SPT XRP 195/55/16 Run Flat this bike can lean very hard without a problem of riding on the side walls most cruise bikes can't lean that far ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoNDo7o1d6Q ) ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSSX...eature=related )this guy is hauling but! you will see that the tire rolls to the side but is still riding on the tread, the first thing you will think is look at the tread off the ground but it still has more tread on the ground than a typical motorcycle tire. Overall a car tire has more tread on the ground then a motorcycle tire obliviously making it safer. (lots of argument there but it has been proven many times I'll see if I can find a link to it) The average car tie is also designed to handle the weight of a cruiser better then a motorcycle tire again making it safer. This picture shows the the pegs very close to the ground.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath616 View Post
since you have the aluminum rims Rofl, you would just get a car tire that would fit, which for your bike...it has a 4.5" wheel, so a 195/65/15..and I also saw one that said 185/95/15....(I saw more f the 195's though) so I think that would be the size you would need....
(**** short edit times) I mis-typed that second tire size...it should have been 185/65/15, not 95....
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:11 PM   #10
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{ Davezncd asked, greyboyfan what bike do you have yours on??}

I've got one on my VTX1800C and on my Valkyrie.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:30 PM   #11
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greyboyfan when you put the tires on what do you feel the differences are? and are they good or bad?
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezncd View Post
greyboyfan when you put the tires on what do you feel the differences are? and are they good or bad?


There are surely differences. They're not bad, but you can't ignore them either. Both my scoots are heavy cruisers, and putting CT's on them won't make them do stuff that cruisers aren't meant to do. Ya can't go faster or anything, (unless you know how to ride fast) BUT they still do the stuff they ARE meant to do, ...just differently. You have to purposefully and intentionally hold your "countersteering manuver for the duration of a curve, and relax your grip only when you want to srtighten up. Thats IT. No mystery.
Theres not a road in the western hemisphere I can't ride on' with a confidence, that my bike will take me securely, while riding in the manner ,and in the places,that was intended by the mfg. And, with a certain confidence that in a lot of the situations that I would be in, My CT equipped bike laughs at the performance or simillar bikes with regular round profile tires.

Let me add, I notice one or two other "feelings" that may be different, that with a little time, will go un-noticed. They are on heavily crowned paved roads, you have to contiously hold a slight pressure towards the "high" side, as the flat tire wants to "run" or lean toward the "low" side,(or off the road) and at heavly crowned intersections, I have noticed, I have to lean my bike toward the high side, 'cause, the bike, as the rear tire wants to sit flat on the pavement, so in order to balance it I have to tip it to the high side a little more. Do you understand what I mean? It's not a big thing, You have to balance your bike at stops anyway, but in this case, If the pavements not flat, it's still up to the rider to do what one has to do to be balanced. Personally, I do it with hardly thinking about it anymore. And on dirt or gravel roads with ruts, well, ride ANY heavy cruiser at your own risk, on gravel. It can be done, but I never did like it.

So, there ya go. If you have a high powered 750 + lb. cruiser style motorcycle, and you can ride it, and I mean "Ride" it, then equipping it with a beter, stronger, tougher, longer lasting better traction back tire is mearly a matter of personal preferance. not a question of safety, or fool hardyness, or anything else.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:53 PM   #13
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Taking a look at my bike, the tire on it already rather fills the fender quite well and I am not sure how much wider a car tire could get for me.

I know what a difference these wider tires felt compared to the Honda Shadow 600, and certainly there would be further stability with a car tire but likely not enough difference with the way I ride to make the switch really necessary on this particular bike at this time.

I will still watch this dialogue for any future bikes. Thanks for starting the thread, davezncd. :]
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:06 PM   #14
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roflol what bike are you running ?
07 VStar 1300 dunlop sport 5000 195 60 16
2000 v-star 1100 stock Altimax PH 195/65/15
2002, Yamaha, Vstar 1100 4.5 General Ultamax HP 195/65/15
2003 Yamaha VStar1100 Custom 4.5" General Altimax HP 195/65/15

http://darkside.nwff.info/database.php

http://darkside.nwff.info/
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:10 PM   #15
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yamaha 2005 vstar 1100 stock general altimax hp 195/65 -15
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:39 PM   #16
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:43 PM   #17
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There hasn't been enough attention here to warrant this being sticky, so I'm unsticking it. If it dies, it dies.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:13 PM   #18
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ok
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:41 AM   #19
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I get a kick out of how people keep calling these car tires better when they are not....

Running a car tire on a bike is not "better" than running a tire designed for
the bike.... It will not support the weight of a bike better
than a tire that is meant to be on a bike.... Nor will the bike
lean or handle better with one.... you would have to be mildly retarded to think that...

If you want to do it than fine... its your bike do
what you want.... but dont tell people that dont know anything about bikes that its a good idea.... because it really isnt...
Bad idea? well that really depends... but I defiantly wouldnt call it a good one.... there really is no reason to do it and
negatively effects the bike if even a little..

I dont know why I still have this picture on my computer....
but these are the tires I have on my "cruiser style" bike right now... I took a pic of them when they showed up at my door.....
thats only $180 worth of rubber in that box



The rear tire (the one in question) is obviously the more expensive one.... but the one I have costs $102 and thats not
really a whole lot more than a car tire.... and the tread lasts forever on these things.... about as long as a car tire....
and you go through about 3 rear tires for every front tire so you cant figure in the cost of replacing both of them every time...
I've had these on the bike for over a year now and the tread
still looks like new... and I put a hell of a lot of miles on the thing.

Its a ridiculously sticky dual compound sport touring tire that grabs the road like its covered in glue..... and it works great in the rain also....

You can get tires like this for almost any bike.... you just have to look.

As dangerous as bike already are... do you really want to screw with probably the most important part of the thing?
Nothing effects the handling and safety on a bike as much as the tires do.

And for the love of god.... please stop saying your bike will corner better with them.... it wont.....
I would be willing to bet serious cash that I would be able to severely outrun your cruiser in the corners with these tires on my bike
if you had stock tires let alone a car tire on the back..




A lot of members here are new to motorcycles.... and dont have a clue about a lot of things....
while some of us here (like me) have been riding for years..... I've been riding half my life now.... and it doesn't help when you tell someone
thats new to motorcycles that something like this is a good idea... because they will believe you...... its not really a good idea....

Yes you can get away with it on some bikes with ought significantly sacrificing a whole lot...
but you are still sacrificing and your not going to save as much money as you think doing this...
if it all.

I've seen old choppers with car tires on the back.... and the people that own them just learned to adapt... they did it to be different and it works...
and I dont fault them for that.... but they dont go around recommending it to people because they know what the tire does to the bike.....
and having a bike tire on the back actually is a better idea...

Theres another thing you need to think of.... Insurance companies will do **** near anything to find a reason to deny a claim....
if you get into a wreck with a car tire on your bike (wich is actually a little more likely)... and your unlucky enough for them to realize that you have a car tire on your bike.... your most likely going to be screwed....
They'll most likely pull some "Improper equipment" card out of a book... blame it for the reck and deny your claim right then and there....
and a judge will most likely agree with them...... its just something to think about...

Yes you can put a car tire on a heavier bike and not NOTICE a huge difference.... so I can understand why some
people think its not a big deal.... but the difference is still there.....
and you will see it come out if you ever need the bike to react like a bike should (like trying to avoid something)

I just know from being around bikes for soo long that its not the best idea to do this and a really bad idea on some bikes....
let alone all of the physics that prove it will negatively effect things..
even if its not noticeable to some riders during regular riding...

Im not a noob to bikes.... I've been around them longer than the majority of the people on this site...
and I know what im talking about on this....

Yes you can usually get away with it...
and maybee not "notice" a difference.... but you are always going to be better off putting a good motorcycle tire on a motorcycle....
its just soo much safer than doing what some of you are talking about..

Im not really trying to flame anyone....
its that I know my stuff when it comes to this.... and I cant make myself just sit back and watch some people tell new riders that its a GOOD idea to put a car tire on a bike....

btw excuse the weird formatting of the text... I did that so you wouldnt have to scroll left and right while readin... (due to the bigger pic)
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:11 AM   #20
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Weebel well 12,000 miles out of a set of metzlers just isn't enough for me and they seem to be one of the best mileage tires for a cruiser about 300.00 to 400.00 mounted for both depending on where you get them (05 goldwing GL 1800) very heavy bike. if you know of a better less expensive tire PLEASE let me know where I can get them! I also have been riding for well over half my life 25 years + including dirt and street. I will agree that the car tire does not handle like what we are used to but that does not mean that they are bad. What is a hell of alot of miles to you? The battle axe tire is the tire I just ordered for the front of my bike I'm hoping it is better. how many miles do you get from it? 20,000 to 25,000 miles is what I'm hoping for. I got that one on sale for 95.00 shipped hell of a deal if I could buy at this price I would be very happy and probably never consider a car tire but I to put on a hell of a lot of miles.
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:30 AM   #21
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Yeah Weeble,...I'd like to know what you're calling "a hell of alot of miles" too.
And, It's already been agreed upon by all the posters I've seen on this forum, that Its Not For Everybody. Ok?

As for the claim that C/T are Better,....Well, Yes they are. My daily testing and evidence gathering study has proved it,(for me, anyway) Might not be better on your 750, but on a real 1500 + cruiser (ridden like a cruiser rides) Yeah! It's a Fact. They're better.

OH! and as for challenging you on the twisties" with your little round bottom tires, ...I already told you, C/T's can do "Twisties" but , Yes, you'll go faster, but,...I'll tell ya what. Lets race from your house to Alaska and back. I'll bet I pass you when you're stopping in Bum Fruck Canada to get your tires changed,(if they've got any for you) while my C/T will still has 30,000 miles of tread wear left on it.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:02 AM   #22
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Actually.... I've lived in Alaska... and ridden this bike up there LOL

I think I have pics of it there on my other PC... (ide hard drive )

Round trip to Anchorage and back from my house is about 6800 miles.... I know **** well I'de have tread left after that.

Like I said... I'm not really trying to bash anyone... im just saying... to me... its not worth putting something on there that in all honesty isnt supposed to be there just to save a little money..

Ya goldwings weigh a lot more.... I think my bike only weighs about 600 lbs so my tread life will be a bit longer than yours.

Im just saying that it has to be safer to find a MC tire with the longest life you can find instead of putting a car tire on it... If it's working out for you fine.... but Its still something I would never even think of doing because frankly.... the cons outweigh the positives... (unless your a real cheap ass)

As for a hell of a lot of miles..... I personally have no freaking clue (I dint keep track) and my bike doesnt even have a speedo right now.... but I ride so **** much that my car tires have a tendency to last over a decade...

And greyboy... while they might serve the purpose on your bike... and may even last longer if you manage not to tear up the side walls.... they are not "better" lol...... theres all kinds of things that make them cause the bike to not handle as well...

If last longer = better too you... than fine I ques... but for me.... its about the way they perform....wich bike tires are better suited for on a bike...

If a car tire was better... they would come with one.... or are all of these physicists and mathematicians that designed the type of tire your bike came with wrong?
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:40 AM   #23
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Everything else aside in both of these threads, the first problem I saw with the idea of using car tires was insurance. We're all talking about benefits of car tires in performance, but you KNOW if you go down with a car tire the insurance company will nail you to the f****** wall. It's their job to find some reason, any reason, not to pay. Remember the firestone tire incident?
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:48 AM   #24
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in the other darkside thread, two other people have already said (one quoted his Insurance companies response) that as long as the frame had not been modified, there was nothing wrong with using a car tire, it would not affect the insurance....so if he started using a car tire (which I think he already has one on his bike, don't remember if he said or not) if something happened, and the insurance denied the claim due to a car tire, all he has to do is take that e-mail, sent from them, and they wouldn't be able to deny it...
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Old 09-21-2009, 12:18 PM   #25
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If the very *very* best materials and components were put on a unit, those units would requre less replacement or repair. That would put a lot of businesses out of, um, business.

Each side presents its opinion based on its own experience. I appreciate hearing both sides so I can make my own decision now and in the future (even noobs have brains, thanks).

Thanks for sharing. :]
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Old 09-21-2009, 02:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black27696 View Post
Everything else aside in both of these threads, the first problem I saw with the idea of using car tires was insurance. We're all talking about benefits of car tires in performance, but you KNOW if you go down with a car tire the insurance company will nail you to the f****** wall. It's their job to find some reason, any reason, not to pay. Remember the firestone tire incident?
That's funny, I asked my insurance company and got written approval for using the P rated radial on my bike. Not because I thought it was neccessary to do so, but so many people make that unfounded claim I decided to check it out for myself. I'm not aware of any instance of any claim being denied for anyone because of the style of tire on their bike. So, I KNOW insurance is no issue for me. But of course, anyone can get the same assurance from their insurance company if they are concerned.

So like so many other things you hear about how bad an idea this is, simply checking the facts for yourself allows you to make intelligent decisions.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:33 PM   #27
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Never EVER trust what the insurance company tells you. They will find a way that the car tire is not acceptable. The approval was not run through the appropriate channels, so it doesn't count. The car tire was not exactly the type of tire that the agent believed it to be. The tire itself failed due to misuse on the bike.

You can do everything right, and they will still find a way to make it your fault. Will you win the court case? Of course. But that will be 10 years down the road, and they have unlimited money and lawyers to make SURE that you give up first.
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Never EVER trust what the insurance company tells you. They will find a way that the car tire is not acceptable. The approval was not run through the appropriate channels, so it doesn't count. The car tire was not exactly the type of tire that the agent believed it to be. The tire itself failed due to misuse on the bike.

You can do everything right, and they will still find a way to make it your fault. Will you win the court case? Of course. But that will be 10 years down the road, and they have unlimited money and lawyers to make SURE that you give up first.
I never mentioned what "channels" I "ran" this through, but I ran it through Progressive's corporate web site and received a written reply from their corperate representative, not an agent.

You apparently have had a bad experience with an insurance company, that's too bad but it doesn't change anything for me. I KNOW I'm covered by my insurance because I got it in writing from their corporate office. I took the time to learn the facts and ask the right questions of the right people, so I don't have to worry about needless issues no matter what any forum experts tell me.

I never, EVER trust what anyone on the internet claims, without confirming it for myself.

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:14 PM   #29
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Vulcan2K thanks
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Old 09-21-2009, 09:39 PM   #30
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I wasn't saying you ran it through the wrong channels. I'm saying you can do everything right and they will still find a way to take you in to court. They aren't just going to hand over a ton of money without a fight, that's how they make money. You could have a stock bike and be driving 5 under the limit, if you get hurt they aren't going to give you a bunch of money without dragging it out for a few years first. If they spend 20k on court costs that's a lot less than the half million on your policy (or whatever you have). A different tire will just be something they'll try to use, so you are giving them just a shade more ammunition. It all comes down to whether the jury believes them or not.
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Old 09-22-2009, 03:59 AM   #31
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Im tending to agree with black here....

Insurance companies are two faced *******s...

They'll tell you something is OK.. until you wreck the thing.... then they will say it isnt and completely deny the fact they said anything to you at all when you bring it up... they would most likely go as far as saying you forged the letter.... they do crap like that...

I was a victim of a hit and run once while I had full coverage.... that should be cut and dry... and they still said they where going to deny me.... until I got really mean (actually scared the guy) and told them I was going to get a lawyer.... and a federal one at that (being in the military has its advantages).... before they changed their tone...
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:53 AM   #32
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For them it's all about whether they believe they can get you to give up while costing them less than an actual payout would cost. If they can drag you around in court, and have you eventually give in for a much smaller amount than a full payout on the policy, they will.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 AM   #33
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****, I'm glad I don't have your insurance company...I have NEVER had any problems with insurance, the three claims I have made (one my fault, 2 not) were paid promptly and with no hassles.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black27696 View Post
I wasn't saying you ran it through the wrong channels. I'm saying you can do everything right and they will still find a way to take you in to court. They aren't just going to hand over a ton of money without a fight, that's how they make money. You could have a stock bike and be driving 5 under the limit, if you get hurt they aren't going to give you a bunch of money without dragging it out for a few years first. If they spend 20k on court costs that's a lot less than the half million on your policy (or whatever you have). A different tire will just be something they'll try to use, so you are giving them just a shade more ammunition. It all comes down to whether the jury believes them or not.
Originally Posted by black27696
Never EVER trust what the insurance company tells you. They will find a way that the car tire is not acceptable. The approval was not run through the appropriate channels, so it doesn't count. The car tire was not exactly the type of tire that the agent believed it to be. The tire itself failed due to misuse on the bike.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood when you wrote above that my approval was not run through the appropriate channels, so it doesn't count. Also, your statement that "The car tire was not exactly the type of tire that the agent believed it to be." led me to believe you were claiming that I misrepresented exactly what type of tire I was inquiring about to some "agent", but once again that was not the case. In addition, your claim that "The tire itself failed due to misuse on the bike" might lead someone to believe that there is some record of where a P rated radial has "failed" on a motorcycle, but there has never been even one report of such a failure that I can find.
And since a P rated radial is engineered to exceed all the performance and safety ratings of any M\C specific tire made, someone would need to explain how it could possible be "misused" when it is on the back of a motorcycle.

I could get hit by a meteorite the next time I'm on my bike, regardless of which style of tire I use. If my insurance policy has an exclusion for acts of God, they could legally deny my claim. So I have more reason to worry about getting hit by a meteorite than to worry about using a DOT approved tire that my insurance company has confirmed, in writing from their corporate office, is fully covered. Being a realistic person, I don't worry about either one.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:35 PM   #35
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black, I suppose you are one of those riders that only have insurance because it is required, because by your logic it is obviously not worth paying for anything other than minimum liability since your insurance company will do anything to get out of paying you. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but believe it or not some insurance companies are actually honest. If the weren't they'd lose customers quick, especially major companies like Progressive.

A written statement from corporate headquarters is good enough for me.
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:11 PM   #36
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No, I'm saying that's what the insurance company will say. They will contend that the approval was not run through the appropriate channels. Your lawyer will say "YES IT WAS!" and they'll say nope, no it wasn't. You'll go to court, you'll spend thousands, and in the end the judge will tell you you're correct. (of course, you would have to fight that long and spend those thousands first).

primal, I have the highest amount of insurance my company offers. I know that when I need it, I'll have to fight for it, but I went with the highest amount (500,000) because that way it will be worth it to keep the lawyer on retainer. I'm not stupid.

The stupidity is people thinking that the insurance company won't sue even knowing they're in the wrong. It doesn't matter, they can be completely legally bound to pay you, but they can still take it to civil court and drag their feet. If you're wearing just one less piece of protection than possible, they'll use it, if you are using a slightly different tire from stock, they'll use it. If a cricket made you veer off course, they'll blame the cricket.

I've sat on jurys, I've seen it.
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Old 09-22-2009, 06:35 PM   #37
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Black, I,......Well, I'm suprised you ride at all.

Darksiders don't live in fear of geeky insurance company lawyers.
Listen, In all the media or forums or even hearsay reports I've ever heard of, no one can point to even one case where a darksider crashed and burned because of his tire failing. Not One, in all the millions of miles ridden. The fear is in the minds of the sceptics who imagine there must be something plasphemous,or politically incorrect, but,...of corse,...they have never dared to try it. You're Not going to get sued!

don't be afraid, Try it.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #38
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Ok guys don't **** off the Super Moderator you'll get banned
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:39 AM   #39
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We've never banned anyone for arguing about the topic at hand, just flaming / other rules violations.

I love riding, I ride constantly, my car hasn't moved in forever. I ride with a vest and a full face a lot of the time, and that's it. There are some people on this forum that have little else to do but blow things out of proportion. All I'm telling you is that any large payment from an insurance company doesn't come without a fight, and every aspect of the crash, including the tire, and the gear or lack of, is part of it.
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:42 AM   #40
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No, I'm saying that's what the insurance company will say. They will contend that the approval was not run through the appropriate channels. Your lawyer will say "YES IT WAS!" and they'll say nope, no it wasn't. You'll go to court, you'll spend thousands, and in the end the judge will tell you you're correct. (of course, you would have to fight that long and spend those thousands first).

primal, I have the highest amount of insurance my company offers. I know that when I need it, I'll have to fight for it, but I went with the highest amount (500,000) because that way it will be worth it to keep the lawyer on retainer. I'm not stupid.

The stupidity is people thinking that the insurance company won't sue even knowing they're in the wrong. It doesn't matter, they can be completely legally bound to pay you, but they can still take it to civil court and drag their feet. If you're wearing just one less piece of protection than possible, they'll use it, if you are using a slightly different tire from stock, they'll use it. If a cricket made you veer off course, they'll blame the cricket.

I've sat on jurys, I've seen it.

I guess it's just a matter of perspective. My perspective is that insurance is one of the most heavily regulated industries in America and is covered by standard contract law. Yes, insurance companies will try to minimize their costs and adjusters will try to make a quicker, cheaper settlement if they can. But Bad Faith conduct by any insurance company will cost them much more than any insurance payout ever could. What you seem to be talking about here is your fear that an insurance company will use anything to avoid paying a valid claim, and apparently you fear that using a P rated radial tire on a motorcycle will give them some reason to deny an otherwise valid claim. Anyone that has such fears should never even consider doing this, or anything similar like towing a trailer, lowering your suspension, installing saddlebags, custom wheels, non oem seats, forward controls, etc. because the exact same logic applies.

I guess I just look at it differently. As there has never been any reported cases of any insurance issues with using a P rated radial tire on a motorcycle, and there are no reported court cases where this has ever resulted in any type of liability, for anyone, ever, I can't understand why any rational person would worry about it. There are too many lawyers out there that will eagerly jump on a Bad Faith action against an insurance company for me to worry about things that could be possible theoretically, but have never actually happened to anyone, ever. It's like the possibility I would not be covered by my motorcycle insurance if I got hit with a meteorite. It's possible, but there has never been a reported case of this happening in the history of the world so I don't see any reason to sweat it. If I needlessly worried about all such bizarre possibilities, I would spend my life hiding under my bed.

But, there are some valid concerns about insurance and liability that I actually have considered. As I mentioned in another post, my OEM M\T had a DOT weight limit of 830 lbs. marked on the sidewall. My bike, as configured with me, my passenger and gear, weighs nearly 1400 lbs. I'm estimating a weight distribution of about 35% Front and 65% Rear, so my OEM tire was almost 10% overloaded whenever I took my wife with me for a ride. This is the reason I even started to consider using a P rated radial instead of a M\C specific tire and that was for purely for safety reasons. But looking back at it now, I guess if the OEM M\T had ever failed, a case could be made that the tire failed because it was overloaded. This would be a valid reason an insurance company could use in an attempt to limit or avoid liability. They are require to offer a valid reason when they attempt to divert liability and can't simply make irrational claims, such as "car tires are for cars and motorcycle tires are for motorcycles" or " if a car tire works so well Rossi would be using one" or any of the other mindless gems that get throw about. Such stupidity could cost them millions of dollars in a Bad Faith suit and their lawyers are too smart to risk something so irresponsible. So, while it may have only been in the back of my mind at the time, I ensured that I could never have a tire failure from an overloaded tire by selecting a good high performance P rated radial tire with a 1390 lb. load rating. After doing quite a bit of research I determined that there are virtually no valid engineering of safety issues that could cause me any legal or insurance issues with my choice of a DOT approved P rated radial. I'm now in much better shape safety wise than I was with the OEM MT and my insurance company will never be able to wiggle out of a claim because of an unsafe, overloaded M\T, and the great ride, better traction, longer mileage and the other advantages the P rated radial offers are just the icing on the cake for me.

Ride Safe
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