The problem with the Buell line of bikes

[Urban Coyote]

Except for the 1125R, if you look at the whole line of Buell bikes, they may have a good powerplant and be a great handling road bike, but they are short and naked in design compared to the Japanese models for something in a bike for the racetrack or much of the sportbike crowd that like a more race design to their bikes.

It looked like Buell wanted to be a little unique with their bike design, stay with air-cooled engines and try to offer something different with offering translucid colored gas tanks, but I think in the long run, they saw that it wasn't getting the sales of the Japanese line and you can see that with the changes and add ons they made with the 1125R.

For someone who wants something in a less expesnsive 600cc bike for the track or just everyday riding, Buell doesn't offer anything and that is why people are more interested in something like a Kawasaki Ninja or Yamaha YXFR6.

[WhiteLightning]

I don't think that Erik Buell ever set out to design anything to compete with jap bikes. He set out to design great bikes for people that love to ride.

In every interview with Erik Buell that I have ever seen or read he talks about the rider and the experience of riding a motorcycle and that is his motivation for designing and making new bikes.

Go to the Buell website, click on 'The Buell Way' and watch the short video interview to see what I mean.

While the jap bikes all try to one-up the competition each year with more hp, more speed, Buell sets out to increase rider enjoyment. The reason why there is no comparison between the two is because there is nothing to compare; it's almost impossible for the companies to have more different goals.

[cafebrad]

I dont think Buell missed the point at all, their bikes kick ass. short and naked wasnt a mistake, they are simply a different purpose than a cbr or ninja or whatever. The jap bikes are all good bikes these days, doubt anyone can argue that but there is a lack of originality in them. Besides have you ever heard a buell when someone is gettin on the throttle? you expect to see a sportster fly by, but a short steep and angry rocket flies by. Its just a matter of taste and intentional use. If anything they resemble a triumph speed or street triple. There isnt a problem with Buell, and i dissagree with any argument price wise. They dont directly compare with any other bike.

[buellosaurusrex]

Originally Posted by Urban Coyote

Except for the 1125R, if you look at the whole line of Buell bikes, they may have a good powerplant and be a great handling road bike, but they are short and naked in design compared to the Japanese models for something in a bike for the racetrack or much of the sportbike crowd that like a more race design to their bikes.

It looked like Buell wanted to be a little unique with their bike design, stay with air-cooled engines and try to offer something different with offering translucid colored gas tanks, but I think in the long run, they saw that it wasn't getting the sales of the Japanese line and you can see that with the changes and add ons they made with the 1125R.

For someone who wants something in a less expesnsive 600cc bike for the track or just everyday riding, Buell doesn't offer anything and that is why people are more interested in something like a Kawasaki Ninja or Yamaha YXFR6.

Not meant offensively (please don't take it that way!) but....
you're one of those who just doesn't "get it".
The early Buells ("tubers") weren't meant to compete with the Jap bikes. They were designed to be ridden in real-world conditions on our continent.....useable power where you can utilize it, in a small, controllable power band, simple hands-on construction that could be maintained by American shops (H/D) or your average backyard tuner using basic fractional tools with many similar parts in common with one of the most common of American machines ever built; the Sportster. This was not a rehash of the Sportster or any other machine; they were designed on a clean sheet of paper and they certainly weren't for everybody. Not everyone likes the looks, the performance or the raw brutality of the older machines, there are those who prefer the finicky, thoroughbred-like high-strung precision of a Ferrari to the brutal raw muscle and power of a Hemi 'Cuda. Me, I'll take the hemi every time.
Erik took the naked musclebike as far as it would go; certainly farther than I could've envisioned. He took a bulletproof powerplant and RELIABLY increased the torque and HP output by 1/3, which inself is a monumental achievement. It was time for a new chapter, enter the XB platform. This is more of a morph between the tubers and the 1125R in hindsight. The 1125 is simply the evolution of the process; expect more changes in the future. Don't mistake this as trying to keep up with the Japs or "selling out"......these are simply parallel lines on opposite sides of the globe.
One of my biggest beefs with Harley is that they keep refining the same product over and over again; different paint, different name, new pipes, same bike. Erik has refused to allow himself to be pigeonholed like this; much as the Japanese designers have as well.

[cafebrad]

got to agree with th HD thing, they couldnt be any less interesting or long in the tooth.(the nightster is alright but still not a new idea just a new paint scheme dreamt up by someone who wants 'hotrodders' to by HD)

[olds_cool63]

Originally Posted by cafebrad

got to agree with th HD thing, they couldnt be any less interesting or long in the tooth.(the nightster is alright but still not a new idea just a new paint scheme dreamt up by someone who wants 'hotrodders' to by HD)

...and that's why I'll never own a HOG!

[Urban Coyote]

I totally understand and appreciate the design of the Buell bikes and they should be offered, but as long as Buell is making sportbikes and is the only American sportbike manufacturer at this time, why wouldn't Buell expand it's customer base for those who want something exactly like all the popular sportbike manufacturers. You have Yamaha, Kawasaki, Susuki, Honda, Ducati, Aprila being used to win races and as popular as those design of sportbikes are in the U.S., why wouldn't the only American sportbike manufacturer want to make something that attracts all those who buy the Japanese and Italian motorcycles that dominate the U.S. market?

[olds_cool63]

Originally Posted by Urban Coyote

I totally understand and appreciate the design of the Buell bikes and they should be offered, but as long as Buell is making sportbikes and is the only American sportbike manufacturer at this time, why wouldn't Buell expand it's customer base for those who want something exactly like all the popular sportbike manufacturers. You have Yamaha, Kawasaki, Susuki, Honda, Ducati, Aprila being used to win races and as popular as those design of sportbikes are in the U.S., why wouldn't the only American sportbike manufacturer want to make something that attracts all those who buy the Japanese and Italian motorcycles that dominate the U.S. market?

Excellent point. I think some exciting things are gonna happen in Buell-land in the next year. Hey, I may even want to seriously consider one. It's a different kind of sportbike, but still has some room for improvement. I think the 1125R is gonna move Buell in a new direction in a god way. Still...adding a few inches to the frame would be a GOOD thing.

Thanks!

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SUIDIOT!

[buellosaurusrex]

Originally Posted by Urban Coyote

I totally understand and appreciate the design of the Buell bikes and they should be offered, but as long as Buell is making sportbikes and is the only American sportbike manufacturer at this time, why wouldn't Buell expand it's customer base for those who want something exactly like all the popular sportbike manufacturers. You have Yamaha, Kawasaki, Susuki, Honda, Ducati, Aprila being used to win races and as popular as those design of sportbikes are in the U.S., why wouldn't the only American sportbike manufacturer want to make something that attracts all those who buy the Japanese and Italian motorcycles that dominate the U.S. market?

Simply put, it takes millions, if not billions, to add just one bike to your line up. Most serious motorcyclists won't consider anything under 600cc (there is the Blast! for those guys) and the smaller XB's fill the bill for most. It seems to me a bike in the 500-900cc category would be a waste of time. However, if you feel there is a gaping hole in the lineup, why not contact the factory and let them know how you feel? I know for a fact that Erik personally reads the "For The Factory" thread on the BadWeatherBikers forum occasionally, if not frequently. Or you can contact the factory on the Buell website as well.
Let your voice be heard!
www.badweatherbikers.com
www.buell.com

[buellosaurusrex]

Originally Posted by fang

they''re ugly too....

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Form follows function. And I never met a Buell I didn't like.

[WhiteLightning]

Originally Posted by fang

they''re ugly too....

I"m assuming that you would prefer something that comes with a checkerboard and more shiny parts to keep your attention?

[TFee3]

I have to admit that I've never seen a Buell, so now that you all have peeked my interest, I'm going to have to go into the website and look at them. I've always been interested in cruisers, but I've also seen how much fun the guys riding sports bikes have in the dirt on long trips. I sure couldn't take my cruiser where those guys go!

Erik might be trying to build a "different" bike, but if he doesn't pay attention to the market, he might just lose everything. I like innovation, however, so I'm for him, even though I don't ride one of his products! It's the American way!

Originally Posted by TFee3

I have to admit that I've never seen a Buell, so now that you all have peeked my interest, I'm going to have to go into the website and look at them. I've always been interested in cruisers, but I've also seen how much fun the guys riding sports bikes have in the dirt on long trips. I sure couldn't take my cruiser where those guys go!

Erik might be trying to build a "different" bike, but if he doesn't pay attention to the market, he might just lose everything. I like innovation, however, so I'm for him, even though I don't ride one of his products! It's the American way!

He doesn't have much to lose at this point, he's sold the company to Harley, they could fire him tomorrow and he'd still be set for life. He's done very good at finding the niche market and profiting from it.

[buellosaurusrex]

......is that I like it too much. It has too much torque down low. It's too loud. It frightens dogs, cats and small children My wife is scared of it and won't ride with me. It handles like a .44 mag with a hair trigger. People stare at you at stoplights and gas stations. It floats like a ghost at 80 mph. It will follow a line if you even think about it. Everyone should have problems like these.

[BH121869]

I like them for sure. At first I thought they were darn ugallie and still getting used to the two headlights. After talking to their riders and reading all I can I'm looking at them and zeroing in on the lightning XB9. The price is lower than some Jap bikes in this same range. I don't think they will run with the other bikes as far as HP goes but I like the sound and power and have to check out the ride next. I did ride a 1203 and it was very nice but very tall.
Some models are lower or longer but the 9 goes for around $9000. I'd like a used 06 or newer to come along.

[olds_cool63]

Buell REALLY needs to have a bike in between the Blast and the XB9SX.

Maybe a bigger Blast? A 600 -750cc version with a longer and taller frame would be nice!

Call me crazy, but I like the way the Blast looks. I just wish there were more of it to look at!

Thanks!

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

[buellosaurusrex]

The Blast motor is basically half of an XB9 motor....500cc's. Being a thumper, it's powerband and torque are limited more by engine design than cc's.
Maybe what you would like to see is a V-twin design more in the 7-800 cc class. I can't see Buell updating a Blast to this configuration; it's old technology by now, born in the tube-frame era. It's probably about time for Buell to launch a new entry level machine (I wouldn't be at all surprised if one is on the boards as we speak). I really think you oughta contact Buell and let them know your interests. If you're thinking this way, I'm sure there are others as well.

[olds_cool63]

Originally Posted by buellosaurusrex

The Blast motor is basically half of an XB9 motor....500cc's. Being a thumper, it's powerband and torque are limited more by engine design than cc's.
Maybe what you would like to see is a V-twin design more in the 7-800 cc class. I can't see Buell updating a Blast to this configuration; it's old technology by now, born in the tube-frame era. It's probably about time for Buell to launch a new entry level machine (I wouldn't be at all surprised if one is on the boards as we speak). I really think you oughta contact Buell and let them know your interests. If you're thinking this way, I'm sure there are others as well.

Yeah...maybe I'll fire off an email. I'm starting to really like the Buell's, but their bikes are way more than I need for basic commuting. I'm well aware of their limitations as far as design goes, so they need to improve in that area. Their new bike with the Rotax engine and frame design is a definite step in the right direction.

Let's hope that trickles down to the Blast!

Thanks!

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

[buellosaurusrex]

It might.....
As mentioned, the Blast (P3) motor is half an XB by design. The XB motor evolved from the tube frame motor, which evolved from the 1200 Sportster motor. Clearly, Buell has seen the end of development (if not now, then soon!) of the air-cooled V-twin (despite Erik's vehement denial in the past) no doubt realizing they've squeezed about as much reliable horsepower as they're gonna get out of an air-cooled mill, and more importantly, being backed into a corner by our good friends at the EPA by new emissions regs of the next decade, which I doubt any air-cooled motor will be able to squeeze by (including HD!). So, you well may be on to something. If not "half a Helicon", then perhaps an entirely new liquid-cooled Rotax design? Not improbable, IMHO. And with the speed at which Buell's R&D team seems to be moving, you may not have to wait long, either. By all means email Buell. As I mentioned, I know for a fact that they at least listen to customer feedback.
On a different note, I wouldn't dismiss the XB9 as "too much motorcycle" until you've ridden one. I would strongly recommend you demo a Blast and an XB9S or City Cross and see which one better meets your needs. The gap between the two is smaller than you might think.

[buellosaurusrex]

To post a question on another forum for the Buell factory (which does get read occasionally) go here; http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buel...tml?1200770689

[captainblacksheep]

b. rex, awesome posts, just wanted to say that first and foremost. i ride a 1990 gsx1100, its a big powerful bike. i love the buells and would love to own one if i could ever get my hands on one. im a big guy, and probably wouldnt be all that great on a buell but i sure do love how they look. the first time i seen one i drooled.

In defense of HD as a business. There is nobody hear that can say that the Harley image has done anything to make them branch out too far, but this has also been what has made the name Harley synonomous with classic. The japanese bukes, Buell, and HD all had reasons for chosing the niche they did. I find it amazing that people have compared three styles of bikes (other than some of the experience positons shared between HD and Buell), that for the most part could not have design objectives do far apart from each other.

[buellosaurusrex]

Originally Posted by webhustler

In defense of HD as a business. There is nobody hear that can say that the Harley image has done anything to make them branch out too far, but this has also been what has made the name Harley synonomous with classic. The japanese bukes, Buell, and HD all had reasons for chosing the niche they did. I find it amazing that people have compared three styles of bikes (other than some of the experience positons shared between HD and Buell), that for the most part could not have design objectives do far apart from each other.

No one ever said HD doesn't know how to market motorcycles......whether or not you like, dislike (or vehemently hate, as some are prone to) Harleys, you gotta give 'em kudos for selling the same pair of pants over and over again....and we keep buying 'em! And asking for more.
I believe HD has the money, the personnel, and the resources to set the industry on it's ear if they so desired, but are holding back because they know the run is not yet over. Look at the experiments with the V-rod and liquid cooling (that's what it is....experimenting...testing the waters). As long as they continue to make billions in revenue selling the same product, slightly refined or renamed/repainted, why should they risk financial failure by going out on a limb? For "technology advances"? Why bother? Just do what the Japanese did......let them spend all their money and time and R&D, and simply copy and improve when the market shifts.

[shoreC50T]

Originally Posted by buellosaurusrex

No one ever said HD doesn't know how to market motorcycles

You've got THAT right! They've managed to convince hundreds of thousands of people that they build the only legitimate motorcycle on the market. That unless you ride a Harley you are something less than a "real" biker. It's pure genius! Most non-riders think Harley and Cruisers are synonymous - that is they assume that every cruiser they see is a Harley. That kind of marketing savvy is enviable and should be respected for its power.

[olds_cool63]

Problem with Buell? Their Blast DOESN'T look like THIS:

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...st-cafe-racer/

Thanks!

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

[this_guinevere]

Do you think that being related to HD is a positive or negative thing for Buell? Or does it not affect the line that much?

[olds_cool63]

Originally Posted by this_guinevere

Do you think that being related to HD is a positive or negative thing for Buell? Or does it not affect the line that much?

Personally, I think Buell would be better off as a stand alone company. Yeah, HD got Buell on the scene, but I think Bull could've done so much more had it not had HD "parenting".

That being the case, I hope ALL of Buell's bikes start using the new Rotax engine. I also hope the Blast beomes a FULL-SIZED bike!

Nuff said.

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

[buellosaurusrex]

Originally Posted by olds_cool63

Personally, I think Buell would be better off as a stand alone company. Yeah, HD got Buell on the scene, but I think Bull could've done so much more had it not had HD "parenting".

That being the case, I hope ALL of Buell's bikes start using the new Rotax engine. I also hope the Blast beomes a FULL-SIZED bike!

Nuff said.

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

Not to be argumentative, but I believe HD gave Buell free rein.......plus a HUGE injection of capital and engineering data and staffing/equipment....which catapaulted them forward at 10X the normal rate of growth for a small motorcycle company. I don't believe this has had anything but a positive effect on the company OR the product.

[olds_cool63]

Good points you make there, buellosaurusres. I just think it's time for Buell to leave the nest (if possible). I still say the new engine is a good thing. Hey, I like Buells and if they ever come out with a smaller , non-HD engine, I'd be really interested. Smaller because I like high mpg's.

Nuff said.

olds_cool63
Custom Sportbike
Custom Cruiser
BOTH metric!

DON'T be a SQUIDIOT!

[kitty kat]

I love the Buells, over here in England they are really starting to take off and one of the bikes got voted best handling machine, knocking all Japanese competition out of the water. I have tried a couple of them myself and if I had the money I would certainly invest in one. They are fun to ride, easily controllable and the tank in the frame, I think is a brilliant idea.

[BH121869]

I looked at the Ducati and Triumphs today and tomorrow will check out the Buells. The Harley shop closest to me does not make any good deals on the Buells or Harley's so I'm going inland to check out another dealer. I've seen left over models and they would not drop the price at all. I do want one some day.

[Zack]

Never been on a "toober".
Firebolts and Lightnings with the XB frame/tank are a hoot to ride.
Lots of thump and a hella handling bike.

The new 1125R is what the Firebolt always wanted to be when it grew up.
They're only getting better.