Oil coming out of exhaust? - Page 2

pjk · 05-23-2011, 07:34 PM

Today I went to change the oil and the filter. Before though, I wanted to make sure I had the fuel off (the valve is a bit indirect, you somewhat have to guess. There is an arrow with fuel next to it, but not much other than that to indicate on and off). To check, I was going to try to start it, and when it didn't start, it meant the fuel was off. Low and behold, I can't get it to even make a sound when I push the starter button. The lights/blinkers/horn works fine. I suspect the battery is about out of charge, so I will charge it soon.

I think I got the fuel turned off, but not positive. I went to find where to change the oil. Under where the dipstick is, I saw no screw to drain the oil. On the other side of the bike, though, I found a big screw that looks to be it (you can't see it in this pic, but it is just below where you see the gear shift icons in this pic). But I'm unsure where the filter is. I also see a bit of oil (honey looking) near where this screw is, so perhaps that screw is the correct spot and it needs to be tightened.

Any insight into if that is indeed where I drain the oil, and also where the filter may be so I can take it out and clean it would be great. Thanks!

Edit: Bolt I found for oil looks identical to the spot in the pic in this thread, so I'm pretty sure that is correct. It also looks like those pics mark where the oil filter is. On my bike, would this be the piece in the upper right of this pic, with the 3 screws? Any confirmation would be great.

playingotter · 05-23-2011, 07:58 PM

ok, the pics in the thread seem correct. many oil filter covers have three bolts or acorn nuts like my bike. the drain bolt should be at the lowest point on the engine, probably on the kickstand side.
as far as the bike not starting- closing the fuel valve will not prevent the bike from starting. there is still plenty of gas in the carb bowls. make sure the bike is not in gear and your handlebar kill switch is in the run position. if you want to verify the fuel flow is stopped disconnect the fuel line from the carb and and turn the valve to watch flow run and stop.

pjk · 05-24-2011, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playingotter

ok, the pics in the thread seem correct. many oil filter covers have three bolts or acorn nuts like my bike. the drain bolt should be at the lowest point on the engine, probably on the kickstand side.
as far as the bike not starting- closing the fuel valve will not prevent the bike from starting. there is still plenty of gas in the carb bowls. make sure the bike is not in gear and your handlebar kill switch is in the run position. if you want to verify the fuel flow is stopped disconnect the fuel line from the carb and and turn the valve to watch flow run and stop.

What do you mean "watch flow run and stop", does that mean watch gas come out?

One thing, how do I clean the oil filter? I plan to remove it tomorrow (it has been pouring rain out though, so I may have to wait a bit).

Thanks again.

playingotter · 05-24-2011, 08:43 PM

yes, you can visually watch to see if the gas is actually stopped or flowing.
if it is a mesh filter then you can clean it with clean gasoline then let air dry before reinstalling. if you find the filter has a paper media filter then it must be replaced.

pjk · 05-26-2011, 06:38 PM

Update: So I went to go change the oil and filter, but found I had no tools that would work. So I went and got several, and found a 3/4" one that seemed to fit great onto the oil bolt, but couldn't find anything that would fit onto the oil filter. When I tried to loosen the oil bolt, I couldn't get it to budge at all, and it seemed to begin to strip it, so I stopped. I suspect the correct size for it is between 11/16" and 12/16", but I can't find that size. So I am a bit stuck here now. Where can I get the tools to remove these items? The oil bolt is incredibly tight...

Any suggestions? Thanks

stroknsmokngt · 05-26-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjk

Where can I get the tools to remove these items?

Sears, Walmart, Kmart, Auto parts store, Harbor Freight Tools ect. You need the right tools to get the job done, use the wrong size wrench or socket and you will round out the bolt/nut and then have to spend more money to fix that problem. Every bolt/nut on your bike is metric.

playingotter · 05-26-2011, 10:23 PM

Every bolt/nut on your bike is metric.

yes, since your bike is of Chinese origin all hardware is metric

pjk · 05-27-2011, 06:58 PM

Thanks for the info, I got a nice metric ratchet set today, and got the bolts off easily. I changed the oil and filled it up to the proper level. The oil may have been way too full looking at it now.

Anyways, when I start the bike (the battery is low), it fires, then dies after a second or two. I've tried multiple times and this is happening.

Edit: Got the bike started and it seemed to idle fine. However, I opened the oil where you pour in oil, and it was indeed spitting out oil. Is this the external gasket that is broken, or is that normal to happen (I've never opened that before while it was running)?

After letting it run for a bit (an the exhaust smoking a lot still), I put it in first and drove it a bit. One thing that is happening (that happened a bit before), was as I rev, the engine somewhat slows and makes a "pop" sound and then continues to rev. As I rev more, it sounds like the engine might die. But when I get it into second, it seems to go fine. What is this issue? Any ideas? Based off some research, it could be "broken valve keepers" AKA "split rings". Does that sound right? If so, how do these break and how easy is it to fix them? Another possibility based on research is carbon build up. If it was this, would this go away with time as the seafoam and carb cleaner gets burnt?

Thanks. Please let me know what the next step is if I need to fix the oil spitting issue and also how I can resolve that "pop" sound.

playingotter · 05-27-2011, 08:10 PM

the poping is a backfire, a result of carb slightly out of adjustment or an air leak on the carbs or the intake boots. dirty carbs may also give this symtom. the stuttering you feel may go away as excess oil is burned off in the cylanders and the carbs clean up. remember spark plugs are not suppose to burn oil, they will but it gives them a little fit, also if it was an overfill of oil then there is probably some in the intake/airbox.
as far as the oil spitting through the filler hole- you dont normally open it when running, just for the test to see its condition. 'spitting' or splashing is normal. it is a result of the oil being slung by the crank, rods and gears. Oil 'blowing' is not normal and would indicate bad rings. there is a noticable difference.
if you had a broken valve keeper you would have a noticable noise in the top end of the engine. you would notice and since you didnt mention it my guess is there isnt none.
run the seafoam through and let it clean the carbs. aany further assesment should be done after you run that tank full. most guys recommend no more than half can of seafoam per tankfull.

pjk · 05-27-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playingotter

the poping is a backfire, a result of carb slightly out of adjustment or an air leak on the carbs or the intake boots. dirty carbs may also give this symtom. the stuttering you feel may go away as excess oil is burned off in the cylanders and the carbs clean up. remember spark plugs are not suppose to burn oil, they will but it gives them a little fit, also if it was an overfill of oil then there is probably some in the intake/airbox.
as far as the oil spitting through the filler hole- you dont normally open it when running, just for the test to see its condition. 'spitting' or splashing is normal. it is a result of the oil being slung by the crank, rods and gears. Oil 'blowing' is not normal and would indicate bad rings. there is a noticable difference.
if you had a broken valve keeper you would have a noticable noise in the top end of the engine. you would notice and since you didnt mention it my guess is there isnt none.
run the seafoam through and let it clean the carbs. aany further assesment should be done after you run that tank full. most guys recommend no more than half can of seafoam per tankfull.

Good info, thanks. What does the intake/airbox look like? I will check it out and clean it. Also, what does the air-filter look like? I posted some pics of the engine earlier in the thread. Could you reference them in those please?

The oil is spitting, seems normal then. I will run the seafoam through and see if that improves the backfiring. Thanks again!

playingotter · 05-28-2011, 04:51 PM

follow the carbs. one side goes to the cylander and the other goes to tjhe airbox. it may be under a cover. it should have a filter as well. if you have oil in the air box you may have oil saturated in the filter. if so replace the filter-the oil will restrict air flow. engines like to breath

pjk · 05-28-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playingotter

follow the carbs. one side goes to the cylander and the other goes to tjhe airbox. it may be under a cover. it should have a filter as well. if you have oil in the air box you may have oil saturated in the filter. if so replace the filter-the oil will restrict air flow. engines like to breath

Thanks, I'll look into this.

So I ran the bike today. It started up fine and mostly ran fine, but a lot of smoke out of the exhaust still. I cleaned all the previous black oil that was on the exhaust end yesterday. After running it today, there was a bit of clean oil at the end. Does this mean the issue is still occuring, or is this expected?

Thanks again.

playingotter · 05-28-2011, 11:18 PM

was it less oil at the exhaust? it is really too early to tell if it is still occuring. mine smoked for several days. if oil was forced into areas it shouldnt be it will take a little while before it is reduced to a level that it cant be detected. the fact that it ran pretty good is an encouraging sign.

pjk · 05-29-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playingotter

was it less oil at the exhaust? it is really too early to tell if it is still occuring. mine smoked for several days. if oil was forced into areas it shouldnt be it will take a little while before it is reduced to a level that it cant be detected. the fact that it ran pretty good is an encouraging sign.

Much less oil, very little if at all, but it was still a bit.

Today I drove it around a bigger block and got it up to a faster speed. When coming to a stop sign, it died on me. I'm thinking I am not downshifting properly. Typically when coming to a stop I pull the clutch and push the breaks, and as I am doing so I just push down through the gears to first, without ever releasing the clutch. The gears seem to make a wierd click sound when I do this, and it doesn't sound natural or smooth at all. So I think maybe this is stalling the engine or something. I looked around online and I see a lot of people do this. Why would this happen? The bike didn't start right up after that, I had to start it and rev it at the same time to get it started.

Does this have to do with possibly the air intake? I will take a look at that soon. Also, I seem to have to get to third to get up to 25. This doesn't seem right at all.

Any tips on this would be great. I will keep you posted with the progress of the bike. It didn't smoke much at all today.

playingotter · 05-29-2011, 07:13 PM

good to hear about the oil. the down shift is fine. the gears might seem glunky because it is a low cc chinese bike. they just dont hsve the smooth engineering of larger displacement japanese bikes ( with years of experience behind them). the stalling could be; clutch not fully disengaging (laboring the engine), restricted airrflow (when bike is not moving it isnt being force fed the air it needs) or carb out of adjustment or still a little dirty. i would advise not doing any carb adjustments until the oil situation is resolved, so as not to muddle the symtoms. fill some fresh gas of you have not already. gas now a days is crap with a short shelf life.

pjk · 05-31-2011, 02:32 AM

I will keep you updated with the situation. My next plan is to look at the air intake/fliter to see if there is oil left over.

I drove the bike quite a bit today with no issues at all, it ran great. I've been shifting gears up when each reaches 5-6k rpms. I seem to have to be in 3rd to get up to 30mph which seems a bit odd, but it works. I haven't tried to make it out in 5th yet (since the oil change). Before I was getting stuck at 60mph. We'll see it goes after I finish this tank of gas.

Thanks for all your help. Have a paypal? I'd like to send a bit of cash for your help.

playingotter · 05-31-2011, 09:33 PM

glad to hear the bike is getting along better. remember youur bike is a smaller displacement single cylinder so you will rev higher to get to desired speeds. my bike is also a 250 but a v-twin so i have more power and can acheive speed at lower rpms. With the weather getting warmer be sure you check your oil frequently, before a days ride would be my suggestion. like you i dont have a center stand and i must stand up and hold my bike to read my sight glass. its a pain but you have to do it. hold it level for 30 seconds for an accurate reading.

as for the paypal? Never! this is what forums like this are for. to exchange info and provide help when needed. im glad that my knowledge has helped you some. Remember, everyone started with no knowledge. its just a matter of how long they have been at it and what they have accumulated in that time. You now know more about your bike than you did a month ago.

mrheartman1 · 06-26-2011, 12:54 AM

Hi ,I tore down my 82 KZ 440 LTD because of upshift problem . In doing so I made many many diagrams & notations even though I didn`t have a repair manual , I found a great deal of info on Dans motorcycle site . I then had a heart attack 2 yrs ago and have now just been able to put back together . sheeesh . Without all my diagrams of tear down I surely would have ended up with a basket case . The motorcycle that is .

pjk · 09-28-2011, 01:03 AM

Just an update on this somewhat old thread:
The bike has run excellent since I've shut off the petcock. That was certainly the issue. Thanks for all the help.

The only issue I have now is the tachometer stopped working after my buddy rode it a couple weeks ago. I need to find a manual for this so I can figure out how to troubleshoot this issue.

05-23-2011, 07:34 PM	#41
pjk Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 36	Today I went to change the oil and the filter. Before though, I wanted to make sure I had the fuel off (the valve is a bit indirect, you somewhat have to guess. There is an arrow with fuel next to it, but not much other than that to indicate on and off). To check, I was going to try to start it, and when it didn't start, it meant the fuel was off. Low and behold, I can't get it to even make a sound when I push the starter button. The lights/blinkers/horn works fine. I suspect the battery is about out of charge, so I will charge it soon. I think I got the fuel turned off, but not positive. I went to find where to change the oil. Under where the dipstick is, I saw no screw to drain the oil. On the other side of the bike, though, I found a big screw that looks to be it (you can't see it in this pic, but it is just below where you see the gear shift icons in this pic). But I'm unsure where the filter is. I also see a bit of oil (honey looking) near where this screw is, so perhaps that screw is the correct spot and it needs to be tightened. Any insight into if that is indeed where I drain the oil, and also where the filter may be so I can take it out and clean it would be great. Thanks! Edit: Bolt I found for oil looks identical to the spot in the pic in this thread, so I'm pretty sure that is correct. It also looks like those pics mark where the oil filter is. On my bike, would this be the piece in the upper right of this pic, with the 3 screws? Any confirmation would be great. Last edited by pjk; 05-23-2011 at 07:38 PM..

05-27-2011, 06:58 PM	#48
pjk Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 36	Thanks for the info, I got a nice metric ratchet set today, and got the bolts off easily. I changed the oil and filled it up to the proper level. The oil may have been way too full looking at it now. Anyways, when I start the bike (the battery is low), it fires, then dies after a second or two. I've tried multiple times and this is happening. Edit: Got the bike started and it seemed to idle fine. However, I opened the oil where you pour in oil, and it was indeed spitting out oil. Is this the external gasket that is broken, or is that normal to happen (I've never opened that before while it was running)? After letting it run for a bit (an the exhaust smoking a lot still), I put it in first and drove it a bit. One thing that is happening (that happened a bit before), was as I rev, the engine somewhat slows and makes a "pop" sound and then continues to rev. As I rev more, it sounds like the engine might die. But when I get it into second, it seems to go fine. What is this issue? Any ideas? Based off some research, it could be "broken valve keepers" AKA "split rings". Does that sound right? If so, how do these break and how easy is it to fix them? Another possibility based on research is carbon build up. If it was this, would this go away with time as the seafoam and carb cleaner gets burnt? Thanks. Please let me know what the next step is if I need to fix the oil spitting issue and also how I can resolve that "pop" sound. Last edited by pjk; 05-27-2011 at 07:37 PM..

06-26-2011, 12:54 AM	#58
mrheartman1 Verified Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 17	Engine teardown Hi ,I tore down my 82 KZ 440 LTD because of upshift problem . In doing so I made many many diagrams & notations even though I didn`t have a repair manual , I found a great deal of info on Dans motorcycle site . I then had a heart attack 2 yrs ago and have now just been able to put back together . sheeesh . Without all my diagrams of tear down I surely would have ended up with a basket case . The motorcycle that is .

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05-23-2011, 07:58 PM	#42
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	ok, the pics in the thread seem correct. many oil filter covers have three bolts or acorn nuts like my bike. the drain bolt should be at the lowest point on the engine, probably on the kickstand side. as far as the bike not starting- closing the fuel valve will not prevent the bike from starting. there is still plenty of gas in the carb bowls. make sure the bike is not in gear and your handlebar kill switch is in the run position. if you want to verify the fuel flow is stopped disconnect the fuel line from the carb and and turn the valve to watch flow run and stop.

05-24-2011, 08:43 PM	#44
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	yes, you can visually watch to see if the gas is actually stopped or flowing. if it is a mesh filter then you can clean it with clean gasoline then let air dry before reinstalling. if you find the filter has a paper media filter then it must be replaced.

05-26-2011, 06:38 PM	#45
pjk Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 36	Update: So I went to go change the oil and filter, but found I had no tools that would work. So I went and got several, and found a 3/4" one that seemed to fit great onto the oil bolt, but couldn't find anything that would fit onto the oil filter. When I tried to loosen the oil bolt, I couldn't get it to budge at all, and it seemed to begin to strip it, so I stopped. I suspect the correct size for it is between 11/16" and 12/16", but I can't find that size. So I am a bit stuck here now. Where can I get the tools to remove these items? The oil bolt is incredibly tight... Any suggestions? Thanks

05-26-2011, 10:23 PM	#47
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	Every bolt/nut on your bike is metric. yes, since your bike is of Chinese origin all hardware is metric

05-27-2011, 08:10 PM	#49
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	the poping is a backfire, a result of carb slightly out of adjustment or an air leak on the carbs or the intake boots. dirty carbs may also give this symtom. the stuttering you feel may go away as excess oil is burned off in the cylanders and the carbs clean up. remember spark plugs are not suppose to burn oil, they will but it gives them a little fit, also if it was an overfill of oil then there is probably some in the intake/airbox. as far as the oil spitting through the filler hole- you dont normally open it when running, just for the test to see its condition. 'spitting' or splashing is normal. it is a result of the oil being slung by the crank, rods and gears. Oil 'blowing' is not normal and would indicate bad rings. there is a noticable difference. if you had a broken valve keeper you would have a noticable noise in the top end of the engine. you would notice and since you didnt mention it my guess is there isnt none. run the seafoam through and let it clean the carbs. aany further assesment should be done after you run that tank full. most guys recommend no more than half can of seafoam per tankfull.

05-28-2011, 04:51 PM	#51
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	follow the carbs. one side goes to the cylander and the other goes to tjhe airbox. it may be under a cover. it should have a filter as well. if you have oil in the air box you may have oil saturated in the filter. if so replace the filter-the oil will restrict air flow. engines like to breath

05-28-2011, 11:18 PM	#53
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	was it less oil at the exhaust? it is really too early to tell if it is still occuring. mine smoked for several days. if oil was forced into areas it shouldnt be it will take a little while before it is reduced to a level that it cant be detected. the fact that it ran pretty good is an encouraging sign.

05-29-2011, 07:13 PM	#55
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	good to hear about the oil. the down shift is fine. the gears might seem glunky because it is a low cc chinese bike. they just dont hsve the smooth engineering of larger displacement japanese bikes ( with years of experience behind them). the stalling could be; clutch not fully disengaging (laboring the engine), restricted airrflow (when bike is not moving it isnt being force fed the air it needs) or carb out of adjustment or still a little dirty. i would advise not doing any carb adjustments until the oil situation is resolved, so as not to muddle the symtoms. fill some fresh gas of you have not already. gas now a days is crap with a short shelf life.

05-31-2011, 02:32 AM	#56
pjk Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 36	I will keep you updated with the situation. My next plan is to look at the air intake/fliter to see if there is oil left over. I drove the bike quite a bit today with no issues at all, it ran great. I've been shifting gears up when each reaches 5-6k rpms. I seem to have to be in 3rd to get up to 30mph which seems a bit odd, but it works. I haven't tried to make it out in 5th yet (since the oil change). Before I was getting stuck at 60mph. We'll see it goes after I finish this tank of gas. Thanks for all your help. Have a paypal? I'd like to send a bit of cash for your help.

05-31-2011, 09:33 PM	#57
playingotter Verified Join Date: May 2011 Location: asheville NC Posts: 35	glad to hear the bike is getting along better. remember youur bike is a smaller displacement single cylinder so you will rev higher to get to desired speeds. my bike is also a 250 but a v-twin so i have more power and can acheive speed at lower rpms. With the weather getting warmer be sure you check your oil frequently, before a days ride would be my suggestion. like you i dont have a center stand and i must stand up and hold my bike to read my sight glass. its a pain but you have to do it. hold it level for 30 seconds for an accurate reading. as for the paypal? Never! this is what forums like this are for. to exchange info and provide help when needed. im glad that my knowledge has helped you some. Remember, everyone started with no knowledge. its just a matter of how long they have been at it and what they have accumulated in that time. You now know more about your bike than you did a month ago.

09-28-2011, 01:03 AM	#59
pjk Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 36	Just an update on this somewhat old thread: The bike has run excellent since I've shut off the petcock. That was certainly the issue. Thanks for all the help. The only issue I have now is the tachometer stopped working after my buddy rode it a couple weeks ago. I need to find a manual for this so I can figure out how to troubleshoot this issue.